Aftermarket TCI available!

[Holgi]

Hey, thank you!

That was fast and would help me.

Holger

[CrazyHorse]

OOPS!

 

Yeah, Todd, that's what I meant OOPS!

 

The Ingitech has a +5V output for sensors. I need to ask them if it can support a MAP sensor, I know it can support a Throttle Position sensor as that is what was used on the triumph forums.

 

Side note, thinking about knock and knock detection... This TCI actually could be tuned to take advantage of higher octane fuel. I was sitting there looking at the spark map and thinking, "If I get knock, I could just fill up with premium..." which means I really need to make sure that I am running unmodified cheap gas when doing spark map testing. I think any fuel additives will cause octane modification and may hide ping/knock that would happen in clean cheap fuel.

 

With all those sensors we could run Fuel injection well maybe not but it would be cool.

[tvking63]

The Ingitech has a +5V output for sensors. I need to ask them if it can support a MAP sensor, I know it can support a Throttle Position sensor as that is what was used on the triumph forums.

 

I was unaware that the IgniTech box had a 5v output. I suppose I should read the documentation.....

 

I don't see any reason it wouldn't support a MAP sensor as it, and a TPS are just variable resistors. The MAP sensor just used vacuum instead of throttle angle to vary the resistance.

[zlMark]

Lets see if I understand this correctly, You get 10 cells to make your adjustments, you can specify the rpm the cell is, so you want to make your first cell your no advance cell and the last cell the full advance cell, leaving you 8 cells to play with your advance curve?

[Holgi]

Here is a small update with my Ignitech TCI.

Inbetween i took a laptop and programmed the curve to tvkings settings.

Now the bike runs much smoother than before. Especially below 1500RPM it was very rough before.

For now i am very satisfied. But maybe i will find a specialist one day, that could help me for a better setting if possible (Egli is only a half hour away from me).

I will let you know, even when it takes a while.

The ride to germany for max. speed test has to wait for a warmer day. Temperatures sunk below 10°C in the last days.

Greetings

Holger

[Yammer Dan]

THANKS!! Lot on members watching for this info.

[RandyR]

If there is a default setting which is clearly best, that information should be sent to Ignitech so they can make that their stock setting.

[tvking63]

Here is a small update with my Ignitech TCI.

Inbetween i took a laptop and programmed the curve to tvkings settings.

Now the bike runs much smoother than before. Especially below 1500RPM it was very rough before.

 

Good to hear my map helped.

 

If there is a default setting which is clearly best, that information should be sent to Ignitech so they can make that their stock setting.

 

Maybe. But they might be using a very conservative base map to cover their butts. The base map does seem overly cautious to the point of making the bike run poorly.

 

The weather has kept me from tweaking the map further, but I'm also not sure how much I want to mess with it until we find out if timgray's pressure sensor addition works. If it does, the mapping will have to be entirely different to accommodate using the senor.

[Tatonka]

Here is a small update with my Ignitech TCI.

Inbetween i took a laptop and programmed the curve to tvkings settings.

Now the bike runs much smoother than before. Especially below 1500RPM it was very rough before.

For now i am very satisfied. But maybe i will find a specialist one day, that could help me for a better setting if possible (Egli is only a half hour away from me).

I will let you know, even when it takes a while.

The ride to germany for max. speed test has to wait for a warmer day. Temperatures sunk below 10°C in the last days.

Greetings

Holger

 

Hi Holger,

 

I'm glad you're keeping everybody straight on this and I wish I understood 1/10th of what I am reading, but I do agree with you that it is cold as #### here in Germany. Got back here last week after 2 months on the bike in the states. Scraped ice off the car windows this morning close to Frankfurt am Main.

 

Funnily enough, my Dyna 3000 that I bought used and installed last year on my 98 RSTC was supposed to be causing problems. I thought it was the carbs though since I was told they needed new intake and exhaust boots and the gaskets on my straight pipes are somewhat shot. I reinstalled the old OEM TCI and it caused the same problem as with the Dyna 3000 (I had only set the Dyna to 6500 rpms and a slight advance on the curve). I have the feeling it is the ignition switch but I have no real idea as such having more money than technical knowledge.

 

Wish everybody luck with getting things fixed.

 

Guess it's time to take the Porta Potti out of the camper before it gets too cold.

[RandyR]

Good to hear my map helped.

Maybe. But they might be using a very conservative base map to cover their butts. The base map does seem overly cautious to the point of making the bike run poorly.

.

 

I don't think so. Ignitech isn't as anal as Ford or GM about their product. By their own admission they haven't tested their unit personally with every type MC they have adapted it to. I think they'd welcome the feedback, with and without any advance/retard mechanisms fed by external sensors that are documented. Be sure to communicate the variation of 1st generation venture everytime you talk to them, so they learn to keep them straight. They expressed interest in doing a 2nd gen TCI also, but since there is already one available in their price range, I'm not sure its worth the trouble (Outside of Europe anyway).

[dksmith196958]

too bad you couldnt put it on a dyno. . . before and after ?

[timgray]

I think tvikings settings need a little more tweaking. Honestly, the low RPM could use a little bit more help, and when I switched to a tank full of premium fuel I gained seat of the pants feel of power at the higher end. I can't hear knock or ping at any speeds above 25mph, but that does not mean they are not there. I need to get a knock sensor on the engine before I can safely start tweaking the map more and say without a doubt that it's right.

 

Anyone can easily replicate my Vac sensor hook up. take a hose from the sync port where the 86+ get their boost sensor readings and hook it to a cheap GM 1 bar MAP sensor. you can get a wire pigtail on ebay to make it easy, or go cut one out of a junkyard car. I hooked it in and I can watch on the computer software interface the "Throttle position" readout. You can stuff it all under the tank cover next to the TCI.

 

I have not did much on the MAP sensor yet, It's been 32 degrees to 40 degrees out.. I am trying to be overly cautious. but the MAP sensor will allow us to have a progressive spark map that will give better than stock performance as you can adjust more.

[Yammer Dan]

I still don't know what you are saying but I think it is Good stuff!!!

We are getting some newer members in here that might teach us "Old Dogs" a thing or two!! I was always lost when it came to anything electrical anyway. If it don't work toss it and find another. Thats what they are doing but a whole new approach to it!! Now if I could just understand it!!

[Squeeze]

Here is a small update with my Ignitech TCI.

Inbetween i took a laptop and programmed the curve to tvkings settings.

Now the bike runs much smoother than before. Especially below 1500RPM it was very rough before.

For now i am very satisfied. But maybe i will find a specialist one day, that could help me for a better setting if possible (Egli is only a half hour away from me).

I will let you know, even when it takes a while.

The ride to germany for max. speed test has to wait for a warmer day. Temperatures sunk below 10°C in the last days.

Greetings

Holger

 

Give Remo a Call, he was Head Tech at Egli for Years and is now running his own Business. He should be able to help you out. http://www.hot-bike.ws

[timgray]

Just a quick update, I'm still working on this, road testing will have to wait for spring though. The bike is in the garage for disassembly so I can locate the GM 1 bar sensor at a good location as well as a lot of other upgrades I need for electrical.

 

I will take photos for everyone and post a "how-to" here for adding in boost sensor.

[tvking63]

.............road testing will have to wait for spring though.

 

Same here. Haven't got an opportunity to tweak the advance curve any further but it looks like that will have to wait for spring.

[timgray]

I did start the bike yesterday and I still have the same symptom there. It's very rough running at RPM's below 2500 when cold. Dogs out and dies easily until warmed up, then it has very little power until 2500 rpm, after 3000 it's a rocket.

 

Should I retard or advance the timing at the lower ranges, I'm thinking advancing it a bit more, I just want to verify it with someone else that I am thinking on the right line.

 

also because we are topping out on advance changes at 8000rpmin the map why not set the 10th cell at 8000 rpm to give us more tuneability at lower rpm's? I am thinking that even after the Vac sensor get's in place and tuned we wont be making changes in advance after 8000 rpm, so that gives us an additional 2 cells to play with in the lower rpm ranges.

 

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3530/3897667176_2ab8f313b4.jpg

 

I've been studying that and I believe it's right when you look at it closely. the 83 because of the vac pickup location will be backwards from a normal one. it will have the lowest pressure when the throttle is open compared to closed. closed throttle will give pretty close to atmospheric+ any drops from the airbox and filter. Open throttle will create a vac condition at the sensor port that is above the butterfly. to translate this to a normal map and using the proper location which would be #2's sync port use the same map but change the high pressure to be the low pressure, and the low pressure to be even lower as it will be behind the butterfly at idle and a far lower pressure than WOT would be.

 

At the same point it seems we are running the WOT map right now with the steep curve, this would explain the hesitation I am seeing at lower RPM's.

 

BUT: what I need to know is what does the Yamaha sensor read? does it read absolute pressure as I am assuming or is it reading a difference in pressure? I don't think there are any detailed documentation on that darn thing left anywhere. Can anyone take some voltage readings off their Boost sensor on a bike with a working 83 TCI? I need to know the voltage at closed throttle idling, voltage at slightly open running the rpm's to 2000. and voltage at 1/2 throttle. All with the engine running.

 

This will give me more information on what that map means and some insight as to how that sensor is set up inside.

 

The GM 1 Bar sensor has the following Pinout...

 

GM sensor pin-out

A = ground

B = sensor output

C = +5v.

Typical GM sensor calibration numbers

Gradient 168

Intercept 134

 

+5V comes from the Ingitech ECM for sensor power. I need to get more info about the Gradient and Intercept. They might not be important to us on this project as they are only really used for the GM ecm's like the 7730

Edited November 21, 2009 by timgray

[rhncue]

I did start the bike yesterday and I still have the same symptom there. It's very rough running at RPM's below 2500 when cold. Dogs out and dies easily until warmed up, then it has very little power until 2500 rpm, after 3000 it's a rocket.

 

Should I retard or advance the timing at the lower ranges, I'm thinking advancing it a bit more, I just want to verify it with someone else that I am thinking on the right line.

 

also because we are topping out on advance changes at 8000rpmin the map why not set the 10th cell at 8000 rpm to give us more tuneability at lower rpm's? I am thinking that even after the Vac sensor get's in place and tuned we wont be making changes in advance after 8000 rpm, so that gives us an additional 2 cells to play with in the lower rpm ranges.

 

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3530/3897667176_2ab8f313b4.jpg

 

I've been studying that and I believe it's right when you look at it closely. the 83 because of the vac pickup location will be backwards from a normal one. it will have the lowest pressure when the throttle is open compared to closed. closed throttle will give pretty close to atmospheric+ any drops from the airbox and filter. Open throttle will create a vac condition at the sensor port that is above the butterfly. to translate this to a normal map and using the proper location which would be #2's sync port use the same map but change the high pressure to be the low pressure, and the low pressure to be even lower as it will be behind the butterfly at idle and a far lower pressure than WOT would be.

 

At the same point it seems we are running the WOT map right now with the steep curve, this would explain the hesitation I am seeing at lower RPM's.

 

BUT: what I need to know is what does the Yamaha sensor read? does it read absolute pressure as I am assuming or is it reading a difference in pressure? I don't think there are any detailed documentation on that darn thing left anywhere. Can anyone take some voltage readings off their Boost sensor on a bike with a working 83 TCI? I need to know the voltage at closed throttle idling, voltage at slightly open running the rpm's to 2000. and voltage at 1/2 throttle. All with the engine running.

 

This will give me more information on what that map means and some insight as to how that sensor is set up inside.

 

The GM 1 Bar sensor has the following Pinout...

 

GM sensor pin-out

A = ground

B = sensor output

C = +5v.

Typical GM sensor calibration numbers

Gradient 168

Intercept 134

 

+5V comes from the Ingitech ECM for sensor power. I need to get more info about the Gradient and Intercept. They might not be important to us on this project as they are only really used for the GM ecm's like the 7730

 

When I belonged to the Venturers, before I became disenchanted with them, I took these readings and posted them on their site. I don't remember the readings now but you may be able to go to their site if you are a member and do a search. I used a volt meter and a vacuum pump and wrote down the readings from 0 vacuum through 28" or so. The voltage started out at close to 2 volts and ran to 4 point something steadily changing as the lower pressure was applied up to around 20 " or so and then increased no more. If I get a chance to look for my spare sensor. The readings I got were with the sensor unhooked from anything but a fully charged battery.

 

Dick

[CrazyHorse]

This is a very cool project. I'm wondering if one of there Fuel injection units could be adapted to fit fuel injection to these bikes. Always been a dream of mine.

Edited November 22, 2009 by CrazyHorse

[timgray]

When I belonged to the Venturers, before I became disenchanted with them, I took these readings and posted them on their site. I don't remember the readings now but you may be able to go to their site if you are a member and do a search. I used a volt meter and a vacuum pump and wrote down the readings from 0 vacuum through 28" or so. The voltage started out at close to 2 volts and ran to 4 point something steadily changing as the lower pressure was applied up to around 20 " or so and then increased no more. If I get a chance to look for my spare sensor. The readings I got were with the sensor unhooked from anything but a fully charged battery.

 

Dick

 

I dont have access to their forum so I cant get that info. If anyone else does, please find it and post it here. But numbers from a vac pump are only 1/2 the information. I need to know what it puts out on a actual bike at the throttle positions with it running to get real engine operating conditions. If I could get vac numbers of the engine I can cross them with your numbers and get what I need as well.

[tvking63]

I did start the bike yesterday and I still have the same symptom there. It's very rough running at RPM's below 2500 when cold. Dogs out and dies easily until warmed up, then it has very little power until 2500 rpm, after 3000 it's a rocket.

 

Should I retard or advance the timing at the lower ranges, I'm thinking advancing it a bit more, I just want to verify it with someone else that I am thinking on the right line.

 

Hmmmm, I don't think mine is any more cold blooded than it was before, and I don't think about it being low on power under 2500rpm either.

 

Colder fuel/air takes longer to ignite and burn so I would think that advancing the timing would be the right way to go.

 

 

also because we are topping out on advance changes at 8000rpmin the map why not set the 10th cell at 8000 rpm to give us more tuneability at lower rpm's? I am thinking that even after the Vac sensor get's in place and tuned we wont be making changes in advance after 8000 rpm, so that gives us an additional 2 cells to play with in the lower rpm ranges.

 

That make sense to me. I've done a map with 7k in the 10th cell that approximates the map I'm running. I'll try to post it yet today.

 

Also I have access to the The Venturers site but they have been have 3rd party malware issues. They are supposedly in the process of getting it cleaned up but I'd rather not dig around over there until it's clean.

[KB2RWW]

this is the info off of the other site for ya.

 

First test to see it will hold vacuum. The pressure sensor is prone to developing vacuum leaks. If it will hold vacuum , then to check pressure sensor... with 12 V supply to sensor and atmospheric pressure, the sensor should have ~ 2.0 V output. Application of vacuum or pressure should cause the voltage to vary according to the attached graph.

http://venturers.org/Tech_Library/attachments/pressuretest.jpg

[timgray]

We could use the stock Vac sensor except there is a possibility when it fails to dump 12V into the ingitech blowing out the sensor input. Anyone know if it will run off of 5V?

[tvking63]

We could use the stock Vac sensor except there is a possibility when it fails to dump 12V into the ingitech blowing out the sensor input. Anyone know if it will run off of 5V?

 

I would think so. It's just a variable resistor. The output voltage would be obviously less.

[Guest gerrycormier]

I don't know if this will help but I just checked 2 Boost sensors off an 86 and an 88.

I put a Mity-vac and 12Vdc applied a vacuum.

 

Volts DC kPa

86...... 88

2.20 - 2.30 @ Atmosphere

2.05 - 1.90 @ 20kPa

1.90 - 1.75 @ 30kPa

1.65 - 1.60 @ 40kPa

1.50 - 1.40 @ 50kPa

1.30 - 1.25 @ 60kPa

1.20 - 1.15 @ 65kPa

1.10 - 1.10 @ 70kPa

0.90 - 0.90 @ 80kPa

0.85 - 0.85 @ 85kPa

 

(Put a quick burst of Pressure and voltage went above 2.2vdc to over 3.0vdc. No way of checking with any accuracy. Only know it works.)

Gerry