tvking63

Hey Brian, does that setup fit under the tank cover OK? Is it mounted down, or is it just floating loose? Anxious to see pics of the ground strap setup.....

I have the same issue and was wondering how to check it as well.

I do wish I had one to use to compare to the IgniTech box. But laying out hard earned cash just for comparison, is another story.

No, I didn't but I already have a new IgniTech box and a 83 TCI that I don't need. Don't need to spend more money on boxes I don't need. I was hoping I might 'borrow' one for testing purposes. FWIW, my 83 TCI definitly increases timing with increasing vacuum at the pressure sensor. Also Jasonm's suggestion won't work because much above idle, oil blows out of the inspection hole at an alarming rate.........

Is there a chart or list somewhere that shows what models numbers have what equipment and what year they are? I searching I found [ame=http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=24554]this[/ame] , but it doesn't address the model numbers. The title says my 84 is a XVZ12DL, but the 83-84 shop manual lists an L, KCZ, DL, DKCZ, TDK and a TK with no explanation of what those model numbers mean or what the differences are. http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forums/style_emoticons/22306set/eusa_think.gif Edit: I just saw mention of KC2 and a DKC2 as well.

Oops! This should have been in General or 1st Gen Tech Talk. I will start a new thread over there. Sorry. http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forums/style_emoticons/22306set/icon_redface.gif If an admin or mod could delete this, that would be swell.

Ok, I've got about 350 miles on it. It seems like with the pre programmed advance curve, power and throttle response are down. My mileage numbers won't make any sense for the rest of you as I'm pushing a sidecar, but they have come down too. I switched back to the stock TCI several times to make sure (hopefully) the reduced power and TR wasn't just in my head. But there is a bit of a glitch to my impressions though. I have an 84 but I'm running a 83 TCI. Long story, but I need to get the bike going and that was what was available at the time. Soooo, I'm running a TCI design to have the pressure sensor hose run to ported vacuum and on an 84 it runs to manifold vacuum....... I wish I had an 84-89 TCI to compare to the IngiTech box. I did find this on their website. So who knows if it's anywhere near the right mapping. Excellent idea, except that the IgniTech box doesn't use the pressure senor so the timing won't vary with load. So I think matching them up would be a crap shoot. That makes sense but that would mean that the pressure senor is used to reduce timing under load. It appears to me that the manual shows that increasing vacuum reduces advance. That would have the opposite effect. Under load, engine vacuum goes down and so should advance to reduce the chance of detention/preignition. Hmmmmm. http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forums/style_emoticons/22306set/eusa_think.gif http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3530/3897667176_2ab8f313b4.jpg Maybe they have the captions reversed? The good news is that modifying the map and adding advance seems to get the response and power back.

Is there a chart or list somewhere that shows what models numbers have what equipment and what year they are? I searching I found [ame=http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=24554]this[/ame], but it doesn't address the model numbers. The title says my 84 is a XVZ12DL, but the 83-84 shop manual lists an L, KCZ, DL, DKCZ, TDK and a TK with no explanation of what those model numbers mean or what the differences are. http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forums/style_emoticons/22306set/eusa_think.gif Edit: I just saw mention of KC2 and a DKC2 as well.

My sync is slightly different at higher RPM than at idle. Since I don't ride at idle, I synced them at 3000rpm and let the idle be a little lumpier.

First off, I think as new info is available, I will update the original post to keep things from getting to spread out. I believe that's what they did too. That's why they need to know the order that the pistons came to TDC. (not the firing order) They say they already had a program for the 86 to 93 XVZ13 because it uses only one pick-up coil. But I have other info that suggests that the VR didn't go to a single P.U until 90. The language barrier is killing me. (I guess they speak much better English than I do Czech) Anybody know for sure when the transition was? Did the connectors change when they went to a single P.U.? And what year did they go to 1300cc? The 83's are different, the vacuum sensor goes to ported vacuum instead of manifold vacuum like the 84's and later. But this should be a moot point since the IgniTech box doesn't use the vacuum sensor input. One can. I've been playing with it a bit. I'll post up when I have more info.

I started a new thread with much more info [ame=http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?p=381016#post381016]here[/ame].

Last Updated 11/11/13 I will do my best to keep this post updated with the latest info. For now, this is only information for 83-89 (MKI) This is a continuation of a discussion that started here. The cliff notes...... A company in the Czech Republic, IgniTech, makes replacement ignition boxes and was working on one for 1st gen VR's. I had had several used TCI boxes take a dive and felt the need for a new TCI rather than installing another 20 year old used part, so I decided to pursue the IgniTech solution. After a few e-mails in broken English, I was able to provide them with the additional info they need to complete the development for a 1st gen box and I ordered one up. When ordering your own, tell them you want a TCIP4 for whatever year Yamaha Venture you have. 83-89 boxes and programming are all the same but because of the language barrier I'd be as specific as possible. It would be nice if they implemented a part # system but no such luck so far. Note: The stock 83 TCI is not the same as 84-89. But for the purpose of ordering a IgniTech TCI, they are the same. Their current pricing, including shipping and taxes is 157.14 Euro. At current exchange rates, that's $223.83 You can do the conversion here. This is what was in the shipping box. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2534/3881510658_52c2e48a85.jpg The ignition box, depending on the programing, works on a bunch of different bikes, so the harness is to mate the box to the Venture harness. The bag of pins that match the box side of the harness are to add wires to perform functions not used on the VR or to add in a MAP sensor.....more on that later. The CD contains software that lets you alter the ignition curve and some other parameters. You plug the pigtail on the box into a serial port on your laptop to access those functions. It will run OK on the stock map but leaves something to be desired. It's substantially smaller than the stock TCI http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2493/3883265968_09565e407a.jpg Looking at the connectors, I see that they combine the 4 pick-up coil wires into 2 inputs to their box. (the brown and yellow wires) http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2608/3883367448_c210082490.jpg They had said that they would need to do this to make it work. I believe that's why they needed the order in which the pistons come to TDC from me. I also noticed the the 2 wires for the pressure sensor are not there. This means that in this configuration there is no vacuum advance like the stock TCI http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2455/3883369706_578f1be0e0.jpg It runs fairly decent without the stock pressure sensor but adding a MAP (vacuum) sensor back into the mix really wakes it up. More on that later. I had already moved my TCI to the top of the airbox so installing it was a piece of cake. I used some Scotch brand Dual Lock (part# RF9730) to mount it to the airbox cover. It's Velcro-like stuff, but has interlocking pins that create a more positive grip. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2601/3883268106_256d897483.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2456/3882477735_b2905d9759.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2523/3882480987_ec4bba4254.jpg It clears the tank cover with no problem and doesn't push it up at all like the stock TCI did. I kinda tucked the serial connector up and out of the way. Edit on 9-30-09 updated info After putting approximately 500 miles on it, fuel mileage was off (verified) and power seemed down (seat of the pants). I found some info on their website that suggested the the pre-programmed advance curve might just be a guess on their part. So using the supplied software, I started adjusting the advance curve. It isn't possible to copy the stock TCI curve since the Ignitech box doesn't use the pressure sensor, so I basically added advance across the board until it started to ping during a 2000rpm, 3rd gear roll on. I even went so far as to stop and let it idle until the fan came on to get it as hot as possible before testing. Then I dialed it back, slowly, until it didn't ping anymore and then a touch more just to be safe. Here is the pre-programmed curve. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2640/3897735550_cf24b7543e_o.jpg This is what I ended up with. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2005/4506033451_d562c0f614_o.jpg Mileage and power are much improved. I rode an entire season with it tuned like that. But it still lacks some part throttle response compared to stock. At the bottom of the post is a link to this file and instructions on how to load it into your TCIP4. ______________________________________________________________________ If you're willing to invest a little more time and money, you can get an experience as good as or better than stock. Even though the bike ran pretty well with the modified map, timgray mentioned trying to put a vacuum sensor back into the system and this got me to thinking. The IgniTech box is set up for using a Throttle position senor input but not a vacuum sensor, but it seemed like with a little 'creativity' it could be made to work. After input from Tim and others, it was decided to use a GM MAP senor. (MAP = Manifold Absolute Pressure, it's basically a vacuum sensor) For reasons that you can read in the thread, I don't think using the stock vacuum sensor is the best option, but I'm still looking into that possibility. After some head scratching and trial and error, I was able to install a MAP sensor and ignition timing map that works pretty darn well. The throttle response is much improved along with MPG. I feel it runs as good or better than the stock TCI. For details about how I arrived at this configuration, you can read through the thread. Here are some additional parts you will need for the MAP sensor installation. 1- General Motors 1 Bar (non-turbo) MAP sensor and connector. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4136/4809338814_03c324d519_t.jpg 1 - Vacuum restrictor - Dorman# 47311, NAPA# CRB 2618, Usually found in the "Help" section at auto parts stores or you can order one here. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4114/4809350006_de61dcbc3f_t.jpg 3 butt connectors to attach your 3 - 1ft. pieces of wire to your MAP sensor connector. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4094/4808737617_a0aa590e79_t.jpg 3 - connector pins from the bag that came with your IgniTech box. Note: at least one member didn't get any additional pins, so if you are planning on running a MAP sensor, you might want to request them from IgniTech or order some additional ones from their site. 3ft. of vacuum hose. 3/16 worked for me but it's a bit tricky since not everything you need to hook up is the same size. 3ft. of gauge wire, 3 - 1ft pieces of different colors would be best. I used a General Motors, old style (larger) MAP sensor. Sensors for newer cars are smaller, but tend to be more expensive. One from any non-turbo car will work. You'll also need the corresponding connector. Here at Rock Auto is a sensor and connector for a 9 Chevy Pickup for less than $50. Edited on 11/11/13 to update purchase links and add VPV and NAPA sensor info The original sensor link above no longer includes the connector. Here at is a link to the connector you will need. Member KISA found this MAP sensor on eBay. http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5528/10813201475_0f68ae7def.jpg It's a Finnish company. They are currently priced at $40 US, including shipping, and come with the connector you need. I'm not having an issue with the GM sensor I have but I ordered a VPV MAP sensor because it looks more compact and easier to mount on a vertical surface then the GM. It took several weeks to get since it's shipped from Finland. Now that I have it, it looks like a quality unit. It has a billet aluminum housing and rubber insulated mounting points. I don't have it on yet, it will probably be a winter project. Here is the ebay link but who knows how long that will be good. You can also order them from www.piilix.fi but it's a bit of a convoluted process. On their homepage it says "Mainly selling low cost overstock batches". And the VPV Racing website, with the help to Google Translate, says "VPV Motor Racing has stopped working", which I believe means they're out of business. So these will probably go away at some point. Your local NAPA dealer can get you the connector under part# EC14 And a MAP sensor under part#'s PS10075, 2-1961, or 3-1961 Or you can go to your local salvage yard or auto parts store. Chevy used the same one on non-turbo vehicles from the early 80's until early 2000's. A 1990 Chevy P.U. with a 350 engine is good vehicle to use when having the parts guy look it up. Thanks to timgray, Here is another source for a MAP sensor. They also have a connector w/o the pigtail that makes it so you don't have to use the butt connectors. It's a little more difficult to do but results in a cleaner look. You need to connect your new hose to the #1 or #2 cyl. sync port. On 84-89's remove the vacuum hose that goes to the stock vacuum sensor and just let it hang out of the way. On my 84 it was on the L.R. cylinder (#2) but it's my understanding that most are on the L.F. (#1). On 83's the stock vac sensor goes to a ported source on the #2 carb. You could remove the hose and cap the fitting on the carb or just leave it connected since the stock sensor won't be used anyway. On my 84 there was a hose connector/fitting a couple inches from the carb. I disconnected the hose there, put in my new restrictor, then added the new hose, routed around the carbs and behind the frame tube and and tucked the MAP sensor in just to the left of the fuel filler. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4093/4810745879_0e346f1357_b.jpg To wire it up, connect pin A on the MAP sensor to pin 7 (ground) on the TCIP4, pin B to pin 6 (sensor voltage) and pin C to pin 17 (5v ref). Edited on 11/11/13 to include VPV Racing sensor pinout and update pinout images easier to understand For the VPV Racing sensor, The Red wire on the sensor (pin 1) goes to pin 17 on the TCI harness, Black (pin 2) to pin 6 and Blue (pin 3) to pin 7. http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2875/10814737246_e5cb6586f3_z.jpg http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5510/10814735346_0e151e2a4a.jpg http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2869/10815083995_abb0e30369.jpg This is what my finished MAP install looks like. My wires are plenty long but I wasn't sure were I was going to put the sensor when I started. Also, disregard the black wire, it was for testing purposes. I ran the vacuum hose up from the carb, behind the frame tube, to a spot just behind the airbox. http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6133/5924665643_8f4f97f009_o.png The sensor tucks in right next to the gas cap splash guard on an angle. I slid the extra wire length between the guard and the airbox. I looked at all kinds of places to mount it and brackets to hold it but this is simple and works great. Once the faux tank cover is on, it can't go anywhere and has been fine for several thousand miles now. http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6021/5924667343_e414b545f3_o.png Note: These files are for 83-89 (MKI) bikes only. Here is a link to the latest non-MAP sensor file. Use at your own risk! Here is a link to the latest file to use with a GM 1 Bar MAP sensor. Use at your own risk! Edit on 7-5-11 to clarify programming info You will need a laptop with a serial port or a USB to serial adaptor. The adaptors can be temperamental but it's worked fine for some. After clicking on one of the above links, click the "Download" button and save the file to your Desktop. To install a new map in your IgniTech TCI you have to connect a computer to the serial port on the TCIP4. The TCIP4 has to be plugged into the bike with the key on too, so a laptop works best. Insert the CD and open the file on the CD called 090715a_tcip4.exe. This is the IgniTech programming software. In the IgniTech software click the "Folder" button. Note: It seems the latest TCIP4's are being shipped with updated programming software, version 80. The file is named 100907a_tcip4A_v80.exe. http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5013/5448184931_e2cd52d823.jpg Then navigate to your Desktop and select the file you downloaded, either "Venture without MAP sensor" or "Venture with MAP sensor". Note: If you're using v80 software, You will get a warning popup. Click OK and continue. Then click Program. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4134/5448185023_1cc707c2f8.jpg In the lower right of the software you'll get a notification saying "Program device" with a progress bar. When it's done it says something like "Program OK'' in green. I don't remember for sure. I'll try to get a screen shot of that soon. Close the program, turn off the key, disconnect the PC and go for a ride! I now have over 5000mi on my IgniTech TCIP4 without a single hiccup.

Good news! It was shipped Tuesday. No clue how long it will take to get here by pack mule from the Czech Republic. It came to €157.14 which at the current exchange rate is $229.45. I'll post up details after I get it.

Well, they say that they have it all figured out. They needed the order in which the pistons come to TDC, ......not the firing order. It took a lot of head scratching, looking a the manual and running it by other guys to make sure I got it right. It's 1-2-3-4 FWIW. I think they needed to know where to throw the waste spark. It looks like they will combine 2 coils at the box, making them fire together. Anyway, the guy who does "custom clearance" is on vacation so it will be next week until I get a invoice with final pricing.

RandyA, from what I can see in the wiring diagram, the side stand switch doesn't directly interact with the TCI. It trips the side stand relay which then outputs to the TCI. Not sure how cleaning the switch would make a difference. It should either trip the relay, or not. It's all a moot point for me since with the side stand up or the sides stand down and the trans in neutral, the B/W wire in the 6 pin connector has ∞ (infinite) resistance to ground when the key is on, as it should. Just for giggles, I pulled the B/W wire out of the connector just to be sure and still no start.

Hey guys. New to the forum but signed up to post here. My 84 has crapped it's second TCI box in less than a year. The first replacement was a used 25 yo piece of crap with the same junk glass diodes. I have replaced the diodes in the second box with no joy. I really hate the idea of installing another used 25 year old box so I've been looking at the Igitech solution. As RandyR state they have a setup that uses 2 of there boxes wire together in order to fire all 4 coils on the Venture (most 4 cyl bike only have 2 coils) But they're working on a single box solution. I've been supplying them with some info they need to build the single box setup. It looks like it will be about $200 including shipping. Every salvage yard that has one wants more than that for used one. I've been swapping e-mails with them and even a phone call but the language barrier is making things really difficult. When I get this all straightened out, I'll let you guys know how it all went down and hopefully they can get a part# so you can just order one. If we're gonna keep these old tugboats on the road, at some point, just putting on different 25 year old parts isn't gong to cut it. It seems like this might be the answer to the TCI problem.