Patch

" Looks like those carbs will need to come back out, looks like I did something wrong." I think that is the right thing to do, while it's off make sure the pilot circuit is completely clean on that one carb. I have had to pull fresh carbs before as well, it can happen to anyone! Patch

Doug, often times when combustion tweaking is shared we see it only to be dismissed by wives'tails. Octane is Octane, it is not a detergent, it is labeled as a rating, sometimes we see it as - Regular- Mid grade- Premium/Super..... 85 to 100+, detergents added to fuels are to deal with the "before and/or after" combustion; unlike Octane which has a direct effect on combustion! "So far as I know MOST gasoline sellers have a super duper cleaning additive that will return your engine to "like new" performance." Surely you don't believe that marketing hype?

I did a mileage check yesterday, also did some conversions: Here's my base line: compress 170 x 4 NO vacuum leaks all 4 are as equal a tune as I can do 188 KLM took 12.05 LT 6.38 LT per 100 KLM conversion: 62 miles / 100 KLM takes 1.68 gallons U.S. if you divide that then the ans is 36.9 miles to a gal. I would expect to see 38/40 if I ran a long trip east of the Foothills. Regarding octane, I think we are on the same page. Higher octane use won't serve us well on these bikes, the burn will be too slow, which means we can't extract the energy potential. For those that don't quite understand this here is a simple explanation: compression causes heat, (it also causes spring like pressure)squeezing a stoichi mix (bare in mind the back pressure from the last cycle cooling effect) now add in the BTDC say 8* then ignition, the combustion starts while the piston is still moving up to TDC, and this helps to mix the stoichi and the planned flame shape that is extracting the heat or BTUs from the (mix) stoichi! This process causes the expansion pressure exerted on the piston in a downward motion! The burn time is critical! Now the above is a simple explanation at low RPM. But add more ignition advance- I think these are up to 40*ish BTDC for high rpms which happens in order to allow enough time to complete the burn cycle during a compression stroke, think about it, it's not a puzzle everyone enjoys I get that! One more thing to add into the mix, liquid cooled will be more resistant to moving up in octane, when other ratios have not been changed, unlike air cooled engines which run much hotter. Patch

JT had an earned bad rep, you needed a suitcase of bad attitude to deal with him. I was in OMS picking through carbs, what a freaking mess! I do know lots of guys use the HD on a variety of old touring bikes. Like everything else compromises are called for. I saw on KIJIJI 2 Vs -one for 1200 ish and 800.00 might make for good parts bikes? Not sure if you ever run up to Bragg, if so call and we can hookup, I saw this up there during the week LOL Patch

Had some intermittent stuff going on with my cruise, here is how I just fixed it: I removed the slide switch set/acc cleaned and also had to square up the metal housing for it, there is a good Dingy on that. Then yesterday while on the road I pulled off and added to small washers (like pop rivet washer) to the spring on the clutch handle, slip the spring off then place the washers on, reinstall the spring. There are likely other ways to do this but it took all of 15 minutes, after which I was able to use the cruise without fail. I keep a kit in the trunk, like a small tackle box with all sorts of stuff for what-nots along the way;) Patch

I see the dilemma!

Spring can play havoc with me too, I turn to technical studying, every March I start, usually read myself to sleep takes a couple of days every year to get back into it, then that becomes my fix. It always amazes me what we forget, personally I think it's related to hair loss? I took to shaving what was still growing, hoping that what I read today won't fall out with my remaining hair over winter, but naa, I know I'll have a fresh slate next March:( I remember anger, While I find it hard to fear most things, I have learned to fear anger, anger seems to grow out of the darkest of moments, it dictates our every reaction, as we look to clam our anger we think to crack the bottle, for but a brief and fleeting moment it appears to help, life will be so much better after we begin seeing it through the bottom of a bottle- again, I think anyone who has traveled that highway has already found the truth and knows to stay off it, he may be best served to, look himself in the mirror and say, Hi my name is...........and I am............. and I choose to live a peaceful life;) because a man has a past, does not mean he has no future, or that his present will be easy

I don't weld stainless but know others that do if you still have the old ones. If you find some up in Rocky Mountain let me know I run up there often, I can relay for you. GW, finally closed, off of Black Foot, the old bike yard??

As we started with mileage or the distance we can travel on a venture, which as Suzi learned in 85 is very important on a touring bikes; getting fare mileage means for one, keeping the bike in good mechanical condition, and using the correct fuel is also very important. If we run an octane designed to burn slower than our combustion design--- then we are wasting a portion of the stoichiometric ratio. If we need to run any conditioner on a regular bases, we are running out of tune! That is why I agree with GW and the old-school thinking. Much of the spring disappointments we have with all our bikes is improper storage, which is when we need to condition the fuel to prevent the carbs, filter, pump, tank, lines..... from gumming up.

Wow! Start with the gas mileage, I aim for a station around 180 klm, if I only get (and it happens) 220, I've been riding hard, I expect 280 out of mine. I recently use Freebird's post regarding the sender maintenance, worked as prescribed! Mileage is elusive, and is maintained only through proper maintenance and a couple of other things, like using the correct octane! I've posted in other places some of my experiences fooling with combustion, I've had my share of looses, also a couple of wins. Octane is timing, when you know the correct math that says X then you stick to it, then tune around it. GW is right that is what we were taught, it went like this, first find it, then disassemble it, confirm it, chem it, measure it, meets spec/doesn't meet spec reuse or replace it, re-assemble it, test it, close the order, onto the next it! That does not mean that today there isn't a cheat for the "it's" because there are plenty, knowing their limitations though is as important as is the cost savings of the inexpensive fix -it is meant to be! Seafoam does not cause oil to disappear, in mans world that is impossible, but a neat idea. It will liquefy hardened oil deposits though, it will dissolve the varnish that may cause a gate needle to stick shut and where ever else it reaches varnished areas, if soaked long enough it can dissolve as in liquefy, then to be burned off and ejected out. Works wonders for removing gunk out of the bottoms of thanks, fuel pumps, fuel lines, because it tends to soak making for a fare system conditioner. You all know I use chems, more than most, it took a while to find what worked, when to use them, what to expect, sometimes I win and sometimes tearing it down it the only option. For example: can someone please explain how seafoam can unblock a carbon close off pilot jet? Someone mention fuel injector cleaners, there are 3 main types used in gasoline engines, I have never seen anyone make a positive impact on any, ever. Patch

It's nice to read you know the compression, and 160/5 is very good! Displacement is not always a faster bike, rather should mean stronger bike, like a touring bike needs. Our 750 while quick can't hold a candle to the 1100's quick!!! Our 1300 VR will push through hills much lower than the 1100 revs and with less vibe, and of course more comfort. My old 1400 though is still my favorite over all- long hauler bike, like an old tomcat in a butlers suite:) I can tell you as my slide boots are patched, I find them slow, anxious to replace them!

If you are certain the carbs are in proper working order then you need a compression test, also make sure the ignition advance is hooked up. Mine was the same before I worked on it, had no passing bower, what it did have was flat, wasn't able to run well in 5th much. When you use water to test the pipes, when- and after what do they steam? They should not steam, they should blast/boil Patch

I would try this: Fill the bowl through the drain, take a peak inside the barrel you want to completely immerse the float, meaning over filling, usually you see some back flow into the barrel when this happens! Then rap on the bowl, if that won't free it the removing the cap is next.

Thanks for the comment, truth is guys I sweat every post every forum! At the lineup for languages, their proper use and spelling; my thought's must have been on the ladies, so I missed out on those gifts the angles were equipping innocent souls with -and- by the time I landed here on earth I hit the ground falling out of a wheel chair, in an elevator, on our way to....! I mention this laughing as I was reminded often there was no slowin me down! Also my thinking and spelling go hand in hand, I like to keep it simple;) Back to carbs, nothing wrong with shimming the needle providing you know the base line and are aiming for an objective. If the tubes are worn, replacing just the needle will deliver disappointing results, and visa versa. If you are ready to shim start with the potential for success, start with a good base line, then adjust, remember most of us do this by the seat of our pants. Dino testing show results based on pre-programmed inputs; seat of the pants testing is scaled by a grin, and feedback, that works for me. The other thing I might add is, the CV Carb is a unit that must pull together each circuit, one circuit will influence the next one above it. Now we often fault a carb before knowing other base line requirements, like compression and vacuum, if they are out of spec no amount of carb fiddling will get you the performance you may be looking for! So Kevin was helping me with some electrical stuff, after finishing up I took the bike out for a short spin. Now I have a slight flat spot, not sure how, but I know it must be Kev's fault? Of course that would be a stretch to blame Kev for his help, so the fault falls back to me, or does it? Some of you may know we had an intruder who made it a point to visit each bike, we had 2 open at the time, I wondered????????? Not Kev, can't be me? Must be the intruder! So I call this a W.T.F. moment, right there on the left, you guested it choke was slightly on, turned it to off and flat spot gone. Back to base line, can we solve a problem, can you shim or tune without knowing the complete picture, no we can't-- not properly! Of course I know we can always go buy 10 horses in a box, but extracting those ponies from the barn they arrived in, that takes a dino to prove and special lighting:) Patch

Have you thought about letting it run on straight sea foam? Not my preferred way but might free the blockage? You would know if it worked by monitoring the temperature. I would leave enough in the bowl for an over night soak. Patch

"Gauge normal is +\- 1/3 off the bottom. After an hour or more ride gauge creeps up to slightly over 1/2 and idle vacillates to between 1.8 -2.4k and fan is coming on. I'm still in the first 500 miles after purchase." I don't see a problem with the above? A question I do see often though in many forums whether bike or car related. What I do see is a need to connect the high idle to the mid-range on the gauge, so lets do that. Like Kevin said, vacuum leak. Which also perpetuates heat! You need to get all the tubes properly hooked up, then let us know what the results are. If you had not mention not reconnecting every thing I would have pointed to the likely cause being intakes boots leaking! As the engine heats it expanses so if they leak it gets worse as the leak grows, and the rpm will hang high! Not sure if you are referring to the PCV tube that connects to the bottom of the air box? If so remove it completely install it to the air box then drop it through the carbs and connect it via (very long nose pliers) at the bottom, note the shape and position it is in now, also check it for cracks. Patch

I'll likely come off somewhat cynical but here are some thoughts about re jetting. I am not a fan, I liken it to figuring valve timing, with a stretched chain. Of course there are instances where jets are simply wrong or the cause of poor throttle response, or over heating; usually for us we find this in some random melt down formulated by some brochure for a slip-on and intake filter for a magical 10 + 10 HP gain promised if we re-jet? Of course we also have to spend Dino testing dollars to prove the manufactures less than truthful when they slipped the hard earned from our wallets; kind of like the 2nd mortgage needed to tour with a HD although I've heard one can now without the need of a trailer following, I wonder? So I like GW wouldn't re-jet unless after riding for a while and the existing setup proves to be a problem. It may just need a pilot adjustment as you mentioned the pull seems the same. I enjoy predictable power and reliable muscle climbing a mountain road on a touring bike. A note about shimming, what works for one carb may not for another, this is mostly due to wear. If experimenting is on the menu it is best to start with fresh needles and tubes. Patch

:bowdown:

When you measure voltage for a circuit it is best know the voltage before, during and after test's, that is voltage in voltage through and out to ground. I would clean the contacts with "contact cleaner" and use a fine emery cloth between the contacts, You don't want to remove good material, you want to remove the carbon causing the resistance/V loss, which is likely why the you are measuring 10 volts. You will likely see some improvement right away, providing the relay coils are OK? But I would either replace or service the pump, at the very least an inspection of the working parts. Patch

That's up to you, they really aren't viable outside of the caps. Fanning is correct, labeling is better;)

If you follow the link on page 3 paragraph 1, there are 3 main ingredients, water, water base chem, and heat. For us in our little shop, we have a parts bath that runs around 15 gal I use the above, the concentrate however may change depending on what we are working on. We usually keep the bath for a year or so, adding only to replace, filtering or evap. When I started everything was, fast working, explosive, and highly hazardous! http://www.doi.gov/greening/links/upload/Switching-to-Water-based-Cleaners-in-Repair-and-Maintenance-Parts-Cleaning.pdf Now I can't soak my hands in my parts bath, even though it is a safer product to use, I don't have the same disposal problems, that might mean it's biodegradable, however it doesn't mean after use it meets any of the OK to dump so, I bring to the waste station. Now it works well and fast when heated, seems useless to me cold! That is why I mentioned if you want to use S/G heat the container being used! Soaking times for any metal should be kept or limited to achieving the objective, heating gets you there quicker. How you heat depends on the chem and what's safe and practicable! We also keep a 5 gal of mixed muriatic acid for steel parts, also way to slow cold, but heating it is dangerous as the fumes can/likely become explosive. But its a hard product to beat, mixing it or knowing if you have the right ratio takes practice. I mentioned my old benze, 2 part would have been the right primer/sealer, but because I didn't do this in my shop, and the garage was attached, I chose other products that are more time consuming, and certainly less effective. Lifting lids and taking a sniff, we've all done it, but we all need to teach the newbies that hang around us, that, that is a bad idea. Have you ever seen ammonia in a jug, looks like water, lifting that lid two feet below your nose is like a freight train under full power, in a loop, through your head, you are completely helpless to control what ever happens next, again first hand experience! That's it I'm moving on Patch

Well that is true Kevin, some years back OK many years back I sold a different product to the aircraft industry for use on problematic helicopters, we also recommended certain acids one wouldn't think used for delicate stuff. Simple Green seems to be more than well documented, one could ask why and or by whom or who paid the bills. It is a hard product to pick on as it seems to work well for so many things. Now I have used it for carbs and also on magnesium mixed metals, I've always been satisfied with the results. One thing I can assure you all of is that it is an easy rinse, and after rinsing Simple green is gone, period. Like many acids, cleaners off a shelf work better at temperature, for example a gold ring with a setting, placed in a small soup pot, with 1 cup of water and 1 TBS of MR. Kleen bring to a simmer place the ring inside cover with the lid lets say for 10 minutes, remove the ring, do not poor out the pot yet, quick rinse with fresh water, make sure all the stone are still there, now you can still feel the soap film on the gold, if the stones are all there dump the pot, try it again with Simple Green, is there a clear winner, I believe so and that is first hand knowledge. Acid is a common cleaner, rinsing it is of the utmost importance, because it remains active, and with each part and each rinse it requires more rinsing baths ! TSP another common cleaner, major draw back, very hard to rinse. Now here's a fellow blaming Simple Green for his mistake in not following the instructions, at all. http://forum.miata.net/vb/archive/index.php/t-69480.html Here is more stuff about their line: http://industrial.simplegreen.com/ind_solutions_faqs.php?search_query=aluminum&search=Search Patch

U a Funny Guy! Simple Green for the castings, "Gary's trip" for the guts. Regarding prep, I was suspicious too, but I tried it and it work better than good. Plastics, the old ones, are a challenge to custom paint because the heat deforms them, so we need to handle them way to much keeping them wet while you eye scan them for shape or true-ness, simple green breaks the surface tension allowing to to keep it wet/even flood, this way you pickup all the defects! The water will literally sheet off. From there tack-rag and straight to HK sealer/primer, once there you're on the clock! This winter during a convalescence after falling off a bluff and going crazy from doin nothing, I strip down my old benz, and repainted it, (very good therapy;) ) outside of the base coat it was all chem prep and clear, would not be practicable to use simple green. There are painters that do use it for metal gas tank custom work. Patch

Did that also cleaned and greased my rear brake peddle bushing, as well as the linkage, on mine there is wear in the knuckle, going to insert a bushing this winter! Patch

Something you should consider when you clean the carbs is the caked on dirt, these have on the housing. You don't want that flowing through, we plugged our nipples and let them soak overnight, brushing them off while standing the carbs tall in the 1.5 gal of Gunk. Notice I said 1.5 gal, I could of dropped them in a 5 gal pale or our large bath we use for heads; but because its a chem and we want to reuse it, we need to filter it in order to reuse it! You don't want that stuff in or running through the jets or porting! Its not grease or oil that will dissolve for the most part its grit and that will float into linkage and all the other places we try to protect with filters during regular operation! If you are the kind of fellow that wants a bright clean housing, you can achieve this simply by using an old rousting pot, a camping stove, 1.5 gal of water, 1/4 cup of Simple Green, the nice thing about it is, very friendly stuff, you just maintain a heat around 180 F, but I would still remove the crusty stuff 1st then Simple Green leave the surface with an easy fresh water rinse leaving no residue. I don't know how many of you do you own paint work, but I started using this on plastics in 08 as prep, with no regrets.