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Don't disagree with anyone's comments here. But I will say I believe the good/bad parenting, good/bad kids thing isn't entirely new. Yes there are newer factors (internet, cell phones, etc) involved, but growing up, I was probably on track to be a bad kid from good parenting. Actually, I think I WAS a bad kid. I pretty much hated school & was not a great student, started drinking with friends at a stupidly young age, but was fortunately given two gifts by God in life. One was he gave me math skills that were above average - even though I really didn't understand that at the time, math just came easy, so I was able to do the bare minimum to get by. So, unfortunately, I didn't really care to take advantage of that gift, until God's gift #2 came along when I was a freshman in high school. I typically slept through my 1st period algebra class but still got straight A's on tests/quizzes & was always first one done. My friends used to give me crap about it, so I started sandbagging a bit. Enter my 2nd gift: My Freshman Algebra teacher! He kept me after class one day and gave me a verbal slap in the face. He told me that I had a gift and if I didn't straighten up & get my act together, I was going to waste it and waste my life. I will never forget Mr. Pat Probst for caring enough to make a monumental difference in my life that day. That was 40 years ago & I still remember it vividly because that day literally changed the course of my life! Perhaps that's where the disconnect is in today's world, teachers who don't care, police who are too afraid and parents who are more into facebook than their kids lives. My parents were too busy raising 6 other kids & putting food on the table to be overtly involved in every aspect of my daily life but I had a ton of chores to keep me busy and teach me a work ethic. They also sacrificed to send each of us to catholic school. Can't say I was a fan of it then, but will now say; Thank God for Mr. Pat Probst at St. Vincent High School in 1982!!! Sometimes all it takes is one non-parent adult to care enough to make a difference in a kid's life. I also believe a lack of consequences and ability to do stupid stuff like this with impunity, by young, immature kids not only encourages more of the same, it emboldens them to always try to take it one step further. I found out the other day, they went to 6 other intersections on Easter Sunday & did this, just playing cat/mouse with the police. A handful did eventually get arrested/cited and their cars impounded for 30 days. One idiot hit a PO, a mistake he will not be making again any time soon. All that is going on in the country/world today can be shocking and depressing, but I think we go through cycles of new rebellious generations that always piss off the older generations. My great grandparents knew nothing but church, hard labor, eat/sleep and be dead by your 60's, Grandparents ushered in the electricity & radio generation, probably stayed up past dark listening to that heathen Howdy Doody! My parents generation found TV, Elvis Presley, Buddy Holly and fast cars. Our generation, well geez, what bad things didn't we get in to! Haha. Back to the sideshow issue I started all this with, I wish the City and Police would just hold a couple of sanctioned events a year for them to do this at an empty parking lot. Let them get it out of their system, keep everyone else safe and we don't tie up 40 police officers for an hour for nothing. Boys will be boys. Heck, NASCAR came about from a bunch of wild country boys running illegal moonshine.

Yep, the wind can blow both ways, some of those raised in the ghettos become doctors and lawyers and some of those who have 'everything' end up on the streets.

Very well put and yet there are exceptions were children and the quality of their up bringing does actually come first over self gratification and it actually shows. Yet despite the proven results of good diligent old fashioned parenting, there are still those who despite their amazement at how well kids brought up this way behave and develop good social attitudes, still insist their way is better or put their own gratification first then sit back and wonder why their kids are not so well behaved or develop an attitude of entitlement.

The results of fathers and mothers being so self centered that the upbringing and development of their kids has very little to no interest in their lives. What is important is their own self interest and entertainment and their kids can fend for themselves, and if bad happens it can be blamed on the government. On the other hand, what can kids do for proper development in cities? As parents we should be involved in their total upbringing, work ethics as well as play behavior and need to develop a system that addresses all those needs, but alas, it's all left up to the government and then it can be complained about and the responsibility is passed on and lives can carry on. Conclusion: This will lie in the importance of life itself, what we do on this earth counts, but life is short so we have little time. It starts at home! Now! In addition: The love of money is the root of all evil. For explanation: A poor man can be content in what he has, he finds shelter and food on a daily basis and can be content to be fed and sheltered. The other side of the coin is the person who desires money and works to get it, thinking that once he has enough he will be happy, but when he finds a little and puts it away, he needs more. Then once he has some more he needs to protect what he has and so desires to increase what he has and his whole being becomes centered on the defense of what he has. If he looses some, his world falls apart. If you have very little or nothing, then you have nothing to loose, but if you have a nest egg then you can very easily live to defend it, even though it might be useless tomorrow. At one time years ago our continent was poor and we all had to work together to survive, today we are in some ways much too rich and our dependence on each other and family has gone to dependence on riches.,,,,,,,, or something like that. JMT what are yours?

And a whole lot of kids are growing up without their Dad around to control them.

I believe most of what was said above is true. But we've lost so much more. America use to be a melting pot. The beacon of everything good. Gone are the days of : Working together towards a common goal (some are quick to point out our differences.) Personal responsibility for one actions (it's always someone/something else's fault) JFK's “Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country,” (now reversed) Clear cut Winners and losers (no need to try and better yourself) (today everybody gets a participation trophy) Family oriented(peoples lives centered around it) Earning a living and feeling good about ones contributions(why bother, Uncle Sam will send you a check) On paper, it would seem to be easy to fix, but the reality of it is, we'd have to have the same Goal, and we do not. Life isn't meant to be easy, it's our struggles that makes us strong. OK, gonna go hide now.

First of all, when I came back to this group after having straying away on a Wing for a while, I was welcomed back with open arms and saw many of the faces and names that I knew from my earlier times in the group. But now I have to give a shout out to one member.......XV1100SE - Don Tohivsky. I will quickly admit that when it comes to working on the bike, I am challenged when it comes to the electrical stuff. I knew Don from back when and when I mentioned that I could use some help getting my GPS and Satellite radio mounted and wired into my new-to-me 09 RSV , Don was quick to offer his help. This week he came to my place 3 nights to get the job done. I need to clarify....he didnt help....he did the work and I was just standing around looking stupid.....which I excel at by the way. Not only does he know what he's doing, he does excellent work, does it right and doesn't cut corners. It is this kind of friendly help that many members of this group offer up all the time. My hat goes off to Don and fellow members for family that we have here. Looking forward to seeing some old friends and making some new friends in Ashville in August. Ride safe everyone. Rooster

Don @XV1100SE is definitely an upstanding member. And he has not shot me in the tail yet so Yeh I guess he is a great tail gunner.

Super helpful that Don guy,,, makes an excellent tailgunner as well.