ediddy Posted July 16, 2008 Share #1 Posted July 16, 2008 I posted about this problem several weeks ago. One time my bike died going down the street. Two other times it died while idling. Each time it wouldn't crank unless you gave it full choke and would only run on two cylinders and would die if you gave it any throttle. This past weekend I rode to North Carolina and put over 1,000 miles on the bike. I took a can of sea foam with me because everytime it has died I added sea foam it cranked up and ran fine. On the way home from north carolina I ran it down to almost empty before I filled up just to see if something was in the bottom of the tank. It ran fine. I filled up 45 miles from home and the bike ran fine. I parked it in the garage until this morning when I got it out to ride to work. It cranked fine and ran until I was about one block from home and died. At first it would crank with full choke and run for awhile and die. It finally wouldn't crank at all. I put about 1/2 of the can of sea foam in and it still wouldn't crank. I finally put the whole can of sea foam in and shook the tank to stir the gas and sea foam. It cranked and is nowing running fine. What do you think this could be? If I take it to the shop they will tell me they can't find anything unless it isn't cranking when I get it to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibvel Posted July 16, 2008 Share #2 Posted July 16, 2008 What have you done? Have you checked the vent hose on top of the tank? Does the tank suck air when you open it? Checked the fuel filter? Just some thoughts off the top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royalstarjac Posted July 16, 2008 Share #3 Posted July 16, 2008 Might be the ignition switch.-Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maritimer Posted July 16, 2008 Share #4 Posted July 16, 2008 Next time it dies, take advantage of the Road Side Assistance and the warranty. They will come and pick it up and take it to the shop. If it won't start at that time, it would be the best time for them to get it and troubleshoot it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ediddy Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share #5 Posted July 16, 2008 Thanks for the suggestions. Royalstarjac, how could it be the ignition switch if putting sea foam in makes it crank and run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibvel Posted July 16, 2008 Share #6 Posted July 16, 2008 If you have power to everything then it, probably isn't the ignition switch. Usually, if it's the ignition switch, you lose all power except, maybe, the radio. Still, I'm thinking the Seafoam may just be a coincidence that is taking the focus away from something else that's just intermittent. Just a guess on that though. How about the fuel pump connections. Maybe the fuel pump is cutting in and out. After it dies, and when you go to restart, does it click like it's filling the bowls again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ediddy Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share #7 Posted July 16, 2008 Yes, you can hear the fuel pump running when you switch the bike on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mm482 Posted July 16, 2008 Share #8 Posted July 16, 2008 Could it be the fuel pump? When it will not start, pull the fuel hose off at the tank and see if you have fuel pressure. Earl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royalstarjac Posted July 16, 2008 Share #9 Posted July 16, 2008 Thanks for the suggestions. Royalstarjac, how could it be the ignition switch if putting sea foam in makes it crank and run? Just because you are adding seafoam doesn't mean that is what's fixing the problem. I have seen an RSV exhibit the same symptoms from a bad ignition switch. Lights and every thing else worked. The bike would start on full choke but ran like it had bad gas in it. Would run fine for a while and then stall out. The switch had got wet and wasn't delivering a full spark to the engine. WD40 was sprayed in and around the switch and it fixed the problem. I think they replaced the switch anyway just to make sure it didn't reoccur. Have you ridden in the rain lately? Or water could have got in while washing it. The problem could be electical instead of fuel related.-Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctraylor Posted July 16, 2008 Share #10 Posted July 16, 2008 Sounds like maybe something inside the tank intermittenly plugging the line. When you slosh the fuel around it dislodges and runs fine. Just a thought........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eck Posted July 16, 2008 Share #11 Posted July 16, 2008 ediddy, My opinion as to what is wrong is based on your below comments: You said: Each time it wouldn't crank unless you gave it full choke and would only run on two cylinders and would die if you gave it any throttle. Sounds like a blockage somewhere in the fuel line... Possibilities: clogged fuel filter, pinched fuel line hose, hole in fuel line hose sucking air, built up settlement / debris in fuel tank, settle ment in fuel petcock valve, something is causing a blockage in the fuel line. You said: This past weekend I rode to North Carolina and put over 1,000 miles on the bike. I took a an of sea foam with me because everytime it has died I added sea foam it cranked up and ran fine. Seafoam may be "partially" breaking up any settlement in the fuel tank, in the fuel filter, or petcock valve, thus letting the fuel flow thru the line "temporarily" until next time.. You said: At first it would crank with full choke and run for awhile .......and die. Again, sounds like a blockage somewhere in fuel line between the fuel tank and carbs... You said: It finally wouldn't crank at all. No fuel (due to blockage) = sorry..no cranky..... You said: I finally put the whole can of sea foam in and shook the tank to stir the gas and sea foam. It cranked and is nowing running fine. SO...you shook the tank with the "added" seafoam .. WHY?? Sounds like you are thinking on the same lines as I am... It once again sounds like you were trying to shake the tank to mix th eseafoam and to hopefully dislodging any settlement / debris in the fuel tank "in hopes" of getting fuel to flow to the carbs.. You asked: What do you think this could be? Settlement / debris in the bottom of the fuel tank...in the fuel lines, in the pet cock and in the fuel filter.. My suggestion for possible solution: Shaking the fuel tank will most likely make it run .. (for the time being)...until you stop and remove the fuel tank and flush out the fuel tank completely including cleaning out or replaceing the fuel lines and I would also replace that fuel filter too because Im sure it has some debris in it from the sea foam breaking the debris loose (or apart) in the fuel tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7Goose Posted July 16, 2008 Share #12 Posted July 16, 2008 I do not know what you mean by "it cranked," but the symptoms you describe a classic fuel starvation. In fact, you described it so perfectly that I will go out on a limb and say it is not possible that your problem is anything else! Cranking to me is simply turning the engine over with the starter, but you seem to be using it in place of "starting." In any event, this is fairly easy to diagnose with the right information. Seafoam has nothing to do with why it started running again, but the fact that you added it and the bike still did not start proves that the problem is NOT a vacuum in the tank from a plugged vent. You said you hear the fuel pump run, but you didn't say when or how long. When all is working right, you should only hear the pump click a few times when you first turn the key on, and that is only after it has been off for many hours. If the bike has recently been shut off and you hear the fuel pump, then that is proof that the carburetors are not full and there is no pressure in the fuel line to shut off the pump. However, the pump will not run forever, even if there is no fuel at all. I haven't really timed it, but it seems to run for about 10 or 15 seconds when the key is turned on and there is no fuel, then shuts off to keep from burning up. I will assume for the moment that you are hearing the fuel pump click more than 5 or 6 times when it will not start. If so, this can be caused by either a plugged fuel line or bad fuel pump. The easiest check has already been suggested - when it is not starting, just pull the fuel line of the tank and see if gas runs out of the petcock. If not, you have just found the problem. Make sure you do NOT touch the valve first, as you do not want to disturb anything before the test. Just be ready to quickly put your finger over the port or turn the valve off if the gas runs out quickly. If it just seems to dribble or come out in anything but a full stream, then your problem is a plugged input inside the tank or a defective petcock. Since our petcock is simply a mechanical valve, it is unlikely the valve is bad. If you DO have a full flow of gas coming out of the tank, then the next step is to bypass your fuel filter. Pull the left side and front battery covers and find the fuel pump. Remove the line going into it from the fuel filter and use a piece of tubing to run directly from the tank valve to the fuel pump. Turn the key on and see if it pumps for a couple of seconds to fill the carbs and then stops. If so, it should fire right up. The only time you should hear the fuel pump more than one or two seconds is after the bike has been shut off for weeks and fuel has evaporated from the carbs, or if it has been run out of gas. In those cases, it might take the fuel pump 4 or 5 seconds to fill up all four carbs and shut off. This will still be MUCH shorter than the full amount of time the pump will click if you turn the key on with no fuel hose connected to it (or no fuel in the fuel line at all, such as when you are actually out of gas). One caution here - I'd suggest you pick up a cheap clear fuel filter along with the piece of tubing you are going to use in this test. Put that new clear fuel filter in the tube between the tank and your fuel pump. Since your problem sounds like a plugged fuel line or fuel filter, I'd worry about possibly running some of the debris that might be clogging your intake screens or fuel filter into your carbs and messing them up. By using any type of fuel filter in that by-pass hose during this test, you absolutely prevent that from happening. And if you get a clear one, you will be able to see any sediment that might be in the gas, verifying the cause of the problem. If the carbs fill up and the bike runs in that last test, you probably have a plugged fuel filter. I only said probably because you have had it start before, showing that it is an intermittent problem, so it could still be an intermittent fuel pump that sometimes clicks but doesn't actually "pump." Frankly, I'd change the fuel filter now no matter what your tests show. And make sure you trace the fuel lines while you are in there to look for a kink somewhere - that is the only other thing it could be other than the petcock, filter or pump. Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeperhawks Mechanic Posted July 16, 2008 Share #13 Posted July 16, 2008 Just because you are adding seafoam doesn't mean that is what's fixing the problem. I have seen an RSV exhibit the same symptoms from a bad ignition switch. Lights and every thing else worked. The bike would start on full choke but ran like it had bad gas in it. Would run fine for a while and then stall out. The switch had got wet and wasn't delivering a full spark to the engine. WD40 was sprayed in and around the switch and it fixed the problem. I think they replaced the switch anyway just to make sure it didn't reoccur. Have you ridden in the rain lately? Or water could have got in while washing it. The problem could be electical instead of fuel related.-Jack We had the same issues with our 05 when we were in Georgia. We ran into a big rain storm. Within thirty mintures of the rain storm, the bike died while going down the road. We let it sit for a while, then it started up. Then it died again. We got to a service station, drained the whole tank, put in fresh gas, ran for a while, then died again. Finally, after the bike dying again on a country road, one of our friends rode to a store and got the WD40. Sleeperhawk sprayed WD40 around the ignition and it started right up. We made it home (being accompanied by WildHair) all the way to Columbia, South Carolina without any problems. The dealership replaced the ignition switch (under warratny) and we never had it happen again! By the way, it was silver too! Good luck! Bobbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiteSquid Posted July 16, 2008 Share #14 Posted July 16, 2008 Dont forget that when you shake the tank, you are actually shanking the entire bike and you are correcting a diffrent problem............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royalstarjac Posted July 16, 2008 Share #15 Posted July 16, 2008 We had the same issues with our 05 when we were in Georgia. We ran into a big rain storm. Within thirty mintures of the rain storm' date=' the bike died while going down the road. We let it sit for a while, then it started up. Then it died again. We got to a service station, drained the whole tank, put in fresh gas, ran for a while, then died again.[/color'] Finally, after the bike dying again on a country road, one of our friends rode to a store and got the WD40. Sleeperhawk sprayed WD40 around the ignition and it started right up. We made it home (being accompanied by WildHair) all the way to Columbia, South Carolina without any problems. The dealership replaced the ignition switch (under warratny) and we never had it happen again! By the way, it was silver too! Good luck! Bobbie Yours is the bike I was referring to Bobbie. Acted like a fuel problem but was really electrical.-Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeperhawks Mechanic Posted July 16, 2008 Share #16 Posted July 16, 2008 Yours is the bike I was referring to Bobbie. Acted like a fuel problem but was really electrical.-Jack I hope our bike problem didn't rub off on your bike!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ediddy Posted July 27, 2008 Author Share #17 Posted July 27, 2008 When ya'll said you sprayed WD4 on the ignition are you talking about spraying it on the ignition switch where the key goes in? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeperhawk Posted July 28, 2008 Share #18 Posted July 28, 2008 When ya'll said you sprayed WD4 on the ignition are you talking about spraying it on the ignition switch where the key goes in? Thanks. YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJB Posted July 28, 2008 Share #19 Posted July 28, 2008 One other thing it could be. Back in the days of my 96 Royal Star I remember posts similar to this and everyone said to check a switch...I believe it is called a "rollover" switch. It stops the fuel pump if the bike is rolled over but if a hard jar shakes the bike, perhaps it could be fooled into shutting down. Just another idea folks. Then again, I could be right out to lunch on this one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_mike Posted July 28, 2008 Share #20 Posted July 28, 2008 first of all the roll over is a check valve in the vent tube to stop fuel from coming out of the vent tube in the case of a roll over to check that when the bike quit take the fuel cap off and see if the fuel tank is under a vacuum it happened to mine after it was knocked over. no longer have that check valve on mine. i don't understand why the seafoam would make it crank or not if the bikes not cranking its not the fuel its electrical. just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ediddy Posted August 6, 2008 Author Share #21 Posted August 6, 2008 Thanks for all the suggestions. Took bike to dealer last week because it finally got where it wouldn't start at all. It was time for the 36,000 mile service so I left it for the service and to find why it wouldn't start. It was the fuel pump. Mechanic said spark plugs were black which was probably from trying to get it to start will full choke so they replaced the plugs but still wouldn't start. Tapped on the fuel pump and it started right up. They are ordering a new fuel pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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