snyper316 Posted April 8, 2017 Share #1 Posted April 8, 2017 Ok just a quick question I been out adding miles but just today I noticed when I come to stop on the front brake it acts as if it is metal to metal. But not really, I had them replaced last year and the pads still look good. What should I look for? "Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted April 9, 2017 Share #2 Posted April 9, 2017 Describe acting like metal on metal, I have never had brakes metal on metal.........yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camos Posted April 9, 2017 Share #3 Posted April 9, 2017 Ok just a quick question I been out adding miles but just today I noticed when I come to stop on the front brake it acts as if it is metal to metal. But not really, I had them replaced last year and the pads still look good. What should I look for? "Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly."If there is no misalignment or improper installation of the caliper and wheel spacers, you may be hearing the sound of a stuck piston(s) that is not being sufficiently pressurized or released. If a piston does not release properly the pad will get glazed/hardened and will make a creaking sound when coming to a stop. Of course, just a guess on my part. Take the caliper off, remove the pads and squeeze the lever a bit. If all pistons do not move equally (approximately) then they will need to be cleaned to free them up. There is not much force available to release the pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snyper316 Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share #4 Posted April 9, 2017 Well like in a car and your brakes are wore down its grinding the pins that hold your pads on... I have bought cars cheap because of this issue Lol. But they aren't even close to being wore down.. "Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snyper316 Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share #5 Posted April 9, 2017 If there is no misalignment or improper installation of the caliper and wheel spacers, you may be hearing the sound of a stuck piston(s) that is not being sufficiently pressurized or released. If a piston does not release properly the pad will get glazed/hardened and will make a creaking sound when coming to a stop. Of course, just a guess on my part. Take the caliper off, remove the pads and squeeze the lever a bit. If all pistons do not move equally (approximately) then they will need to be cleaned to free them up. There is not much force available to release the pads. I have had to use my brakes alot today, as this weekend was city wide yard sale and ride them because of looky loos and the front brake is acting like it is glazed meaning hit the brake and its not acting like it used too... But will take it off later and check it out. It kinda sounds like and acts like sand on the brakes.... But only after in slowed to a crawl as I am coming to a stop. "Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camos Posted April 9, 2017 Share #6 Posted April 9, 2017 It kinda sounds like and acts like sand on the brakes.... But only after in slowed to a crawl as I am coming to a stop. I have a vague memory of something like you describe that happened with my Virago many, many years ago. The pad had worn unevenly so one side looked good but the side that could not be seen was worn down to the backing plate. Sounded like a crunch when coming to a complete stop which might be the sandy sound you mention. Best to take a close look at the pads and pistons just to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snyper316 Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share #7 Posted April 9, 2017 I have a vague memory of something like you describe that happened with my Virago many, many years ago. The pad had worn unevenly so one side looked good but the side that could not be seen was worn down to the backing plate. Sounded like a crunch when coming to a complete stop which might be the sandy sound you mention. Best to take a close look at the pads and pistons just to be sure. Took them off and in in shock by how small they are my Chinese scooter had bigger pads... Anyways they are pretty close in wear the pads are shiny tho. Still have quite a bit of pad left. "Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snyper316 Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share #8 Posted April 9, 2017 I would have thought they would at least took up 3/4 of the caliper... I have never messed with my brakes before. The shop replaced them last year. Just one question do i have to change forks to upgrade or did the r1 bolt up? "Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted April 9, 2017 Share #9 Posted April 9, 2017 Yup, you have to change at least the fork lowers. The bolt spacing on MK1 is 87 mm whereas the MK2, along with the R1/R6 is 100 mm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snyper316 Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share #10 Posted April 9, 2017 Ill put it on the list of things to do in four seasons.. In gonna assume the brakes are bigger. "Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G in SC Posted April 9, 2017 Share #11 Posted April 9, 2017 Take a rag and a can of WD40. Lube up up the front brake lever pivot points (and do same for the clutch). Mine tend to dry out after a rain and you can even hear them squeak. This is a 10 second fix if this is the issue. I first came across this on my Road Star front brake. Was headed to the dealer to have him look,,, stopped at a light and then went to Walmart for WD40 instead. Saved big $$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snyper316 Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share #12 Posted April 9, 2017 OK other then being an idiot I am really mad right now.... I was working on the wrong brake, inner piston is stuck on the right brake and there is no pad left on the right hand inside... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyday58 Posted April 10, 2017 Share #13 Posted April 10, 2017 OK other then being an idiot I am really mad right now.... I was working on the wrong brake, inner piston is stuck on the right brake and there is no pad left on the right hand inside... That's how I got my 83 in a swap, his brake pistons froze and he didn't want to fool with it! I have the blue dots on the front now, much happier with them. Replaced the forks and discs, along with the beefier fork brace. A ton of confidence gained for the money. No worries on grabbing the wrong thing, we've all done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snyper316 Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share #14 Posted April 10, 2017 That's how I got my 83 in a swap, his brake pistons froze and he didn't want to fool with it! I have the blue dots on the front now, much happier with them. Replaced the forks and discs, along with the beefier fork brace. A ton of confidence gained for the money. No worries on grabbing the wrong thing, we've all done it. I got them both moving in and out but... I have to push them back in, to return them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcarl Posted April 10, 2017 Share #15 Posted April 10, 2017 I got them both moving in and out but... I have to push them back in, to return them... Best to take them right apart and clean them proper, or it will happen again soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snyper316 Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share #16 Posted April 10, 2017 Yeah @rbig1 are discussing that... "Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camos Posted April 10, 2017 Share #17 Posted April 10, 2017 I got them both moving in and out but... I have to push them back in, to return them...That's normal. Do what Marcarl suggested. Clean the pistons and the bores with Scotchbrite pads, cleaning around rather than in/out or up/down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaseyJ955 Posted April 10, 2017 Share #18 Posted April 10, 2017 It's strange to have a bike this old not need some brake help. I was not at all surprised to see that I had a few pistons sticking on my 89. It was cheaper to hang R6 calipers on it than rebuild the OEM calipers. Come to find out the R6 calipers are dragging a little so back off they come for a good internal cleaning and some new Volar HH pads, which I should have done before hanging them on the bike in the first place. Brake fluid is supposed to be changed/flushed about every 2 years, but I really doubt it gets done on most vehicles. Aside from DOT absorbing moisture from the atmosphere it breaks down from the heat and age leaving deposits and moisture down in the caliper bores causing the pistons to stick and sometimes seize altogether. There isnt any real force pulling the piston back after the brakes are released. At least with old school drum brakes you have the shoe springs pulling the shoes back to their resting position, forcing the piston back into the wheel cyl. With calipers there is no such spring, if the pistons are retracting as they should it's around 0.004" feeler gauge that can be slipped between the pad and rotor (IIRC). The easiest judge of that is when you release the brake the wheel should spin freely a few revolutions before slowing to a stop, it's normal to hear the pads contact the rotors ever so slightly during a free spin as long as it's not dragging on the wheel. The only thing allowing the piston to back up is the piston seal, it not quite an O ring but has a sort of lip or ridge that sort of pulls it back. When the brake is released there is only an absence of hydraulic pressure, no vacuum, so it wont take much muck in the caliper to interfere with correct operation of the caliper/correct brake pad wear. The pistons should come out so that you can clean between the piston and bore. If the moisture and deposits have pitted the ID of the bore you will be better off replacing the caliper. I'm pleased to hear that often a person can get away with disassembly, cleaning and reassembly without needing new seals. I'm hoping for such luck because I have never done that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snyper316 Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share #19 Posted April 10, 2017 It's strange to have a bike this old not need some brake help. I was not at all surprised to see that I had a few pistons sticking on my 89. It was cheaper to hang R6 calipers on it than rebuild the OEM calipers. Come to find out the R6 calipers are dragging a little so back off they come for a good internal cleaning and some new Volar HH pads, which I should have done before hanging them on the bike in the first place. Brake fluid is supposed to be changed/flushed about every 2 years, but I really doubt it gets done on most vehicles. Aside from DOT absorbing moisture from the atmosphere it breaks down from the heat and age leaving deposits and moisture down in the caliper bores causing the pistons to stick and sometimes seize altogether. There isnt any real force pulling the piston back after the brakes are released. At least with old school drum brakes you have the shoe springs pulling the shoes back to their resting position, forcing the piston back into the wheel cyl. With calipers there is no such spring, if the pistons are retracting as they should it's around 0.004" feeler gauge that can be slipped between the pad and rotor (IIRC). The easiest judge of that is when you release the brake the wheel should spin freely a few revolutions before slowing to a stop, it's normal to hear the pads contact the rotors ever so slightly during a free spin as long as it's not dragging on the wheel. The only thing allowing the piston to back up is the piston seal, it not quite an O ring but has a sort of lip or ridge that sort of pulls it back. When the brake is released there is only an absence of hydraulic pressure, no vacuum, so it wont take much muck in the caliper to interfere with correct operation of the caliper/correct brake pad wear. The pistons should come out so that you can clean between the piston and bore. If the moisture and deposits have pitted the ID of the bore you will be better off replacing the caliper. I'm pleased to hear that often a person can get away with disassembly, cleaning and reassembly without needing new seals. I'm hoping for such luck because I have never done that before. I have only rebuilt drum brakes, only one time did I have to replace a wheel cylinder and that was on my 69 mercury monterey.. "Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snyper316 Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share #20 Posted April 10, 2017 I am putting all that off till tommorow because I have never rebuilt calipers I just replace them.. Thinking about replacing calipers with aftermarket sport ones And rotors. "Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaseyJ955 Posted April 10, 2017 Share #21 Posted April 10, 2017 69 Monterey, when a Mercury was a Mercury!! Sweet car. These calipers are no more complicated than an old school wheel cyl. A chunk of cast Fe with a pistons and seals. Rebuild or replace sort of rests on what the ID looks like after you clean it up. To just replace you could find the best prices on reman calipers and see what sounds best. Let us know what you find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snyper316 Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share #22 Posted April 10, 2017 69 Monterey, when a Mercury was a Mercury!! Sweet car. These calipers are no more complicated than an old school wheel cyl. A chunk of cast Fe with a pistons and seals. Rebuild or replace sort of rests on what the ID looks like after you clean it up. To just replace you could find the best prices on reman calipers and see what sounds best. Let us know what you find. Yeah that's another car I wished I could find another of... I paid 200 for it, today's world its worth a chunk. I have been looking all over for k&s k&l any type of after market performance brake for the venture and coming up empty. The reason I don't want to replace forks they were just redone last year in march. So there not leaking so why fix. I am wondering how much an aftermarket rotor would make. When I replaced the rotors and calipers on the mustang I went with both high performance of same brand.. I do admit I really should replace the rotors as they both have groves in them. I ordered 3 sets of the ebc supers. I just hope the come in sets of 2 and not six or i will feel just plain silly 😁 "Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snyper316 Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share #23 Posted April 10, 2017 Um order aftermarket stuff... Order available next Thursday the 13th... No ride for me for 2 weeks I'm gonna 😢 "Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaseyJ955 Posted April 10, 2017 Share #24 Posted April 10, 2017 Um order aftermarket stuff... Order available next Thursday the 13th... No ride for me for 2 weeks I'm gonna 😢 "Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly." I would urge you to be careful not to traipse into the Chinese aftermarket, it's easy when we watch what we spend. Some of the Chinese rotors rust, not all but many. None of that stuff is as good as Yamaha OEM. I would imagine if you find something as good/better than OEM it will cost a chunk. If your rotors are still serviceable maybe you can reuse them andhave the calipers done by an independent, then get some EBC pads or something else that will improve brake performance. I've been going over options for brake pads and talking to others on the Vmax site to see if I want to run sintered HH pads, I guess they significantly improve brake performance. Something to think about anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snyper316 Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share #25 Posted April 10, 2017 I would urge you to be careful not to traipse into the Chinese aftermarket, it's easy when we watch what we spend. Some of the Chinese rotors rust, not all but many. None of that stuff is as good as Yamaha OEM. I would imagine if you find something as good/better than OEM it will cost a chunk. If your rotors are still serviceable maybe you can reuse them andhave the calipers done by an independent, then get some EBC pads or something else that will improve brake performance. I've been going over options for brake pads and talking to others on the Vmax site to see if I want to run sintered HH pads, I guess they significantly improve brake performance. Something to think about anyway. Fairly cheap the ones I found are on partzilla there 162 a piece.. And anything. To do with my safety I will not buy Chinese. I got pistons out cleaned them up they weren't defunct at all. So I cracked the pieces apart the feeder holes looked like there was wax in there... Not sure if that will cause any problems but I did go ahead and clean those up and blew air thru them... "Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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