gravedigger8 Posted June 11, 2016 Share #1 Posted June 11, 2016 ok boys and girls, my clutch handle has barely any resistance, it will bleed but clutch is not engaging. meaning, if i try to put bike in gear with the handle squeezed, it jumps forward and stalls. with that being said i got a few things i need to check, ie, remove and inspect the clutch release. my question deals with removing the "middle gear case cover". in the manual it says " be sure oil does not leak out of the case".i loosened the bolts on it and oil started to come out so i tightened them back up. so do i just let the oil leak or will it cause a big issue? thats the only way to pull the clutch release out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patmac6075 Posted June 11, 2016 Share #2 Posted June 11, 2016 Won't cause any issue if you let leak out (that is if you remember to refill it). You should notice the bolt lowest in the pattern has a copper crush washer, if that gets misplaced, you continue to leak oil....that could cause you problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravedigger8 Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share #3 Posted June 11, 2016 ok thanks, hopefully the clutch release is all thats wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiCarl Posted June 11, 2016 Share #4 Posted June 11, 2016 Slow down. I'd presume it's either not bled or the master cylinder needs rebuilt. If you haven't opened the clutch there is really nothing on the engine side that could cause your symptoms. Even a bad slave will disengage the clutch a few times until the system leaks out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravedigger8 Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share #5 Posted June 11, 2016 if the master cylinder wasn't working it wouldn't shoot fluid out of the bleeder valve. so i presume its something after the valve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted June 12, 2016 Share #6 Posted June 12, 2016 You still have air in the clutch line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiCarl Posted June 12, 2016 Share #7 Posted June 12, 2016 It takes very little pressure to blow fluid out an open bleeder valve. It takes quite a bit to actuate the clutch. If this started after you bled/replaced the clutch fluid my money is on Condor's answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravedigger8 Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share #8 Posted June 12, 2016 the bike has sat for 5 years and the reservoir was empty so i filled and bled, i zip tied the handle to the bar and gonna check it tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted June 12, 2016 Share #9 Posted June 12, 2016 Sigh.... I know I'm gonna catch a whole lot of flack for posting this..... but..... There is absolutely no way tying the clutch lever back against the grip, and leaving it sit overnight, that the air will magically purge itself out of the clutch, and into the reserve... When the lever is back against the grip the master cup has moved passed the expansion hole and the cup lip is sealed against the wall of the master cylinder. The system is sealed. Overnight it's possible that some air will rise to the top of the line and pass the banjo bolt, but it will not pass out the expansion hole due to the position of the piston cup. What happens in the morning, when the lever is released, any collected air will slowly bleed out the expansion hole and into the reserve. Unfortunately not all the air will. It might work, but not at maximum. I know members have used this method and swear by it, but every time someone suggests it, I bite my lip... Not this time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowpuc Posted June 12, 2016 Share #10 Posted June 12, 2016 Sigh.... I know I'm gonna catch a whole lot of flack for posting this..... but..... There is absolutely no way tying the clutch lever back against the grip, and leaving it sit overnight, that the air will magically purge itself out of the clutch, and into the reserve... When the lever is back against the grip the master cup has moved passed the expansion hole and the cup lip is sealed against the wall of the master cylinder. The system is sealed. Overnight it's possible that some air will rise to the top of the line and pass the banjo bolt, but it will not pass out the expansion hole due to the position of the piston cup. What happens in the morning, when the lever is released, any collected air will slowly bleed out the expansion hole and into the reserve. Unfortunately not all the air will. It might work, but not at maximum. I know members have used this method and swear by it, but every time someone suggests it, I bite my lip... Not this time.... I am with Condor and MiCarl on all this.. I have had way better results spending the time to bleed the old fashion time consuming way.. Digger, try starting at the bango up on the master, stuff a rag under it, fill the master, loosen the banjo and squeeze SLOWLY and watch for tiny air bubbles in the fluid around the banjo. Bleed from there until you get pure fluid. Now see if you have a clutch.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravedigger8 Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share #11 Posted June 12, 2016 thank you all for the tips, i'll just keep trying them till one works or until i get frustrated, then i'll take a break and work on a 66 ford ltd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravedigger8 Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share #12 Posted June 12, 2016 finally got all the air out, but fluid is pouring out of the bottom of the engine. its not the hose thats leaking from what i can see so i'll need to remove the clutch release and replace it or rebuild it, thanks for all the advice. Btw i didn't see a copper washer on the bottom bolt of the middle gear cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiCarl Posted June 13, 2016 Share #13 Posted June 13, 2016 Now you know why it was dry. Just buy a new slave cylinder. It's not that much more than a rebuild kit and if the old one is pitted you might never get it to seal anyhow. When you order the slave cylinder also order a new gasket for the middle gear cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted June 13, 2016 Share #14 Posted June 13, 2016 Yup!! What Micarl said!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paysaw Posted June 13, 2016 Share #15 Posted June 13, 2016 If you see pitting on the walls of the slave, dont even bother rebuilding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiCarl Posted June 13, 2016 Share #16 Posted June 13, 2016 Sigh.... I know I'm gonna catch a whole lot of flack for posting this..... but..... There is absolutely no way tying the clutch lever back against the grip, and leaving it sit overnight, that the air will magically purge itself out of the clutch, and into the reserve... When the lever is back against the grip the master cup has moved passed the expansion hole and the cup lip is sealed against the wall of the master cylinder. The system is sealed. Overnight it's possible that some air will rise to the top of the line and pass the banjo bolt, but it will not pass out the expansion hole due to the position of the piston cup. What happens in the morning, when the lever is released, any collected air will slowly bleed out the expansion hole and into the reserve. Unfortunately not all the air will. It might work, but not at maximum. I know members have used this method and swear by it, but every time someone suggests it, I bite my lip... Not this time.... I agree with you 100%. I want to rip my hair out every time I see someone post advice to tie the lever back. Fortunately, my hair is already gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mralex714 Posted June 14, 2016 Share #17 Posted June 14, 2016 Now you know why it was dry. Just buy a new slave cylinder. It's not that much more than a rebuild kit and if the old one is pitted you might never get it to seal anyhow. When you order the slave cylinder also order a new gasket for the middle gear cover. I just rebuilt my master and slave cylinders 2 days ago. Do your self a favor and get a vacuum bleeder. It took me longer to read the directions than to bleed the clutch. http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-bleeder-and-vacuum-pump-kit-69328.html This is the one I bought, money well spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paysaw Posted June 18, 2016 Share #18 Posted June 18, 2016 A vacuum bleeder is a great thing to have. All I have ever done is bled out my system.If you do it right it does not take long at all.There is no magic to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravedigger8 Posted June 19, 2016 Author Share #19 Posted June 19, 2016 i bought a flavor injector syringe to flush my carbs, was thinking of using it to bleed the clutch once i get the seals and put it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowpuc Posted June 19, 2016 Share #20 Posted June 19, 2016 i bought a flavor injector syringe to flush my carbs, was thinking of using it to bleed the clutch once i get the seals and put it in. Have used large syringes from the local Ag store (Farm n Fleet) for years for the same purpose Digger - gotta agree with ya = work great for both flushing carbs and for brake work - handy little suckers (pun intended) that are cheap enough to toss when the rubber seal gets icky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamagrl Posted June 19, 2016 Share #21 Posted June 19, 2016 I prefer to reverse bleed. Here is a link. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?118688-Bad-clutch-master-cylinder-and-slave-cylinder&p=964314#post964314 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravedigger8 Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share #22 Posted June 20, 2016 UPDATE got the seals the other dayfrom ebay for 12 bucks. got the clutch slave removed and disassembled. cleaned and sanded and cleaned more and reassembled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted June 21, 2016 Share #23 Posted June 21, 2016 See what happens when you don't flush your clutch system every two/three years?!!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravedigger8 Posted June 21, 2016 Author Share #24 Posted June 21, 2016 when i took it off, the banjo bolt only had one copper washer, just wondering if that's correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairiehammer Posted June 21, 2016 Share #25 Posted June 21, 2016 when i took it off, the banjo bolt only had one copper washer, just wondering if that's correct? Never correct to have but one copper/crush washer on ANY banjo bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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