side bags won't open.

[garyS-NJ]

I had a hard time getting the bags and trunk off the '84 venture royale I bought. lots of lube and coaxing latches. tough to get the trunk open. Just can't get the side bags open. The lock seems to turn, (maybe not all the way) but I suspect the latch is not retracting just like the latches holding bags to bike. I tried different types of creeping oil into the lick and along the edge of the bag with the bag oriented different ways to aid the oil into finding the latch. any ideas?

[dna9656]

FIRST: Are you SURE you have the correct key? I am assuming the key fits all the way into the lock. Does it look like the bag has been damaged in anyway that might knock the lock out of alignment? Go on the Internet and research how to pick a tumbler style lock. Try that. Failing that you may be able to remove the hinges on the bottom of the case, obtaining the fancy chrome-plated rivets to re-install the hinges might be tough though; check that fancy hardware catalogs.... I would try the Bee's wax trick before I got my drill out though. I like Bee's wax for rusted nut, bolts, etc. I don't know how cooled Bee's wax will perform or affect the performance of the locks after it's congealed in the lock, but it does remain lubricious (lubricating) like most waxes but I would use a small amount. Bees wax is available at most hardware stores; just ask. Melt a small amount it in an appropriate (thimble size?) sized cup and slowly pour it into the locks. Bees wax makes an incredible penetrant. If the bee's wax works you could remove the locks and place them on a metal tray and in a oven at or just a little above the melting temp of the wax. The lock will have to be positioned in such a way as to allow the wax to flow out of the lock as it melts. That way you could get MOST all of the wax out of the locks if they make the lock hard to turn. I would suspect this to be true under cooler temperatures.

Edited June 26, 2015 by dna9656

[utadventure]

Gary-

 

I know this sounds real basic, but if the labels are gone or illegible......the bag locks have three positions, straight up/down on the trunk and across the saddlebags is the latched/unlocked position. Turn the key to the left and the bag is locked, to the right and it releases/retracts that latch to open. Sometimes causing the bags to close a little bit more as you turn the key will reduce the friction and allow full retraction of the bolt.

 

Dave

[dna9656]

Gary-

 

I know this sounds real basic, but if the labels are gone or illegible......the bag locks have three positions, straight up/down on the trunk and across the saddlebags is the latched/unlocked position. Turn the key to the left and the bag is locked, to the right and it releases/retracts that latch to open. Sometimes causing the bags to close a little bit more as you turn the key will reduce the friction and allow full retraction of the bolt.

 

Dave

 

Excellent response Dave, yeah maybe the door/lock is under tension and needs to be "over closed" or even pulled apart to remove or lessen the torque or tenstion affecting the lock. There could be a burr on the bolt of the lock too. It surprises me that BOTH bags are affected.

[syscrusher]

Bees wax makes an incredible penetrant.

 

With the risk that bees wax could seal the lock to the extent that the key wouldn't even go in is it really better than just using PB Blaster?

[dna9656]

I have never used PB Blaster or seen it here in the NW USA. If I see it I will defiantly get some for my arsenal. So far as the Bee's wax sealing the lock, I assumed in my post that if the Bee's wax worked it would have to be removed from the lock, so I described how gently heating the lock to the wax's melting tempurature would allow the wax to run out (due to gravity) of any openings in the lock and protect the plastic components of the lock at the same time. following the heating applying most any penetrating oil (like your PB Blaster) would make short work of the remaining Bee's wax. But I'm theorizing here; I haven't tried this method, just a thought on ways we could get these locks to work for GaryS-NJ.

[icebrrg3rd]

On both of my saddlebags, the linkage/bits & bobs inside the lock to remove the bags are trashed. The key fits, turns the lock, but doesn't move the latch. Luckily, my latches are in the latched/unlock position (not locked), so a flat blade screwdriver can coax the latch open, then I just slide the bags off. Maybe yours might be in the same position and you can pop them off with a screwdriver.

 

-Andrew

[garyS-NJ]

thanks dave and doug,

 

yes, the labels are there and the fits all the way into the lock. The key also fits the ignition and I used it to remove the side bags and trunk and open the trunk so I'm pretty sure it's the right key. But this is a reproduction key made from the numbers on an original key. NTL. the key goes in and out in the set and 9 0clock lock position but will not rotate all the way to the right to the 3 oclock unlock position. and yes, I tried rotating the key while squeezing the bag closed and prying it a little open as well as banging it from the side. rethinking, I feel the key just isn't doing the trick as the key will rotate all the way to the 3 oclock unlock position at the lock which attaches the bag to the bike. And since I used all kinds of lubricants in the lock, I'm going to bring the key and the bags to the same locksmith as they should be good and they are reasonable... bike isn't running yet so I let the bags to the side..

[yamagrl]

I had a similar problem on my side bags about 3 years ago.

The key would turn from the locked position to the center position but not all the way to open position. The key will come out while in the center position. So I gently, but firmly turned the lock with a straight screwdriver and it opened. I found my problem to be the linkage mechanism and not the lock or the key.

 

Once opened, I removed the cover over the latching mechanism and lubed it. Worked perfectly.

 

My left side bag is starting to get a little tight, so I think need to do them all again

 

I use Houdini. You will probably have to get it at a locksmith. I sprayed mine in 2012 I have riden several hundred miles in hard rain on several occasions and they are just now needing it.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2015 by yamagrl

[garyS-NJ]

locksmith told me to spray it with penetrating oil and then take the hinges off if I give up. Yamagrl, you mean with no key, just insert a screwdriver into the keyhold and turn clockwise 90degrees? that seems to be breaking the lock but I guess if the tumblers are stuck up it would work.

[yamagrl]

If its in the Set Position. (90 degrees) perpendicular to the length of the bag it should turn clockwise. The set position is actually unlocked but latchable.

 

 

we recorded a 10 second video.

 

https://goo.gl/photos/Hf7Zvi3PzHAKAGsv7

[Venturous Randy]

Since both the latches to open the bags and latches to remove the bags on an 83/85 are being discussed, I just wanted to note that I quit trying to use the latches that remove the bags on my 83 a long time ago. I just open the bags and remove the three small screws that hold the latch on and slide the bags back and off. When putting the bags back on, I just put the latch in place, slide the bags on and then replace the screws.

I gave up many years ago on trying to keep the locking mechanism working on the latches that remove the bags. And yes, once any of the latches are no longer in the "locked" position, you no longer need a key to turn the latch to the "open" position.

Randy

[Great White]

If its in the Set Position. (90 degrees) perpendicular to the length of the bag it should turn clockwise. The set position is actually unlocked but latchable.

 

 

we recorded a 10 second video.

 

https://goo.gl/photos/Hf7Zvi3PzHAKAGsv7

 

That's kinda freaky.

 

 

I know my manual says not to travel without the boxes in the lock postion, maybe that's why. Possibly vibrate open?

 

[Great White]

Since both the latches to open the bags and latches to remove the bags on an 83/85 are being discussed, I just wanted to note that I quit trying to use the latches that remove the bags on my 83 a long time ago. I just open the bags and remove the three small screws that hold the latch on and slide the bags back and off. When putting the bags back on, I just put the latch in place, slide the bags on and then replace the screws.

I gave up many years ago on trying to keep the locking mechanism working on the latches that remove the bags. And yes, once any of the latches are no longer in the "locked" position, you no longer need a key to turn the latch to the "open" position.

Randy

 

My 83 had the same issue on the LH bag.

 

I pulled the latch assembly apart and found there was a square "key" that sets in a square recess in the part that retracts the locking tab. The tumbler assembly would "ride up" in it's bore and had rounded the corners on the square key and slot. It's all just cheap/soft pot metal inside so any slop is only going to get worse, fast. This is one of those things that just grew upon itself until the latch wouldn't even move when working against the bag retaining tab. The key/tumbler would just lift and spin with no effect.

 

I ended up using a bit of jb weld to press the key and slot together to give it more "tooth" and attempt to rebuild the slot to the key. Wasn't enough, so I cut a small washer/shim (couple thou thick) to slip under the tumbler assembly to keep it from riding up in its bore. Truthfully, it probably should have had a shim in it from the get go since the manufacturing tolerances looked way too sloppy when I took it apart. I don't know how it didn't round the corners off sooner. I'm thinking about taking the other locks apart to check, but they don't show any of the tumbler cylinder climbing out of its bore that this one did.

 

Then I had to file off the tab as it had formed a small "hook" in it's end.

 

Now, the bag comes off with the key fine.

 

Was a lot of "fiddley work" to get it that way though.....Probably should have snapped a pic or two while doing it, but wasn't thinking about that at the time.

 

Edited June 27, 2015 by Great White

[dna9656]

Ya know I read the life story of Houdini, I know that's not REALLY his REAL name, I know that he worked for Lock makers and learned all about locks and how to defeat them. I know he hated spiritual frauds, but I didn't know he was available in a can!

[garyS-NJ]

Houdini came in my can. I sprayed the lock and also the area with the latches and plastic malleted and pried the area with the latches and eventually both bags opened. I'm still afraid to close tho because I haven't got a clear shot of the latches. the hooks go into the recess and I want to be sure my key is releasing the recessed lock.

[KISA]

WD-40 or kerosene

[jasonm.]

thanks dave and doug,

 

yes, the labels are there and the fits all the way into the lock. The key also fits the ignition and I used it to remove the side bags and trunk and open the trunk so I'm pretty sure it's the right key. But this is a reproduction key made from the numbers on an original key. NTL. the key goes in and out in the set and 9 0clock lock position but will not rotate all the way to the right to the 3 oclock unlock position. and yes, I tried rotating the key while squeezing the bag closed and prying it a little open as well as banging it from the side. rethinking, I feel the key just isn't doing the trick as the key will rotate all the way to the 3 oclock unlock position at the lock which attaches the bag to the bike. And since I used all kinds of lubricants in the lock, I'm going to bring the key and the bags to the same locksmith as they should be good and they are reasonable... bike isn't running yet so I let the bags to the side..

 

the correct key cutter is known as a CURTIS key cutter the yamaha dealer by me used one for me no problem. That is the ONLY way using the number on the key. Also note Yamaha has at least 5 different blanks styles...meaning the length-wise grooves are different in each one. The blanks are LETTERED.... A thru E or F . Need original key to verify or the number code MUST start with a letter.

[garyS-NJ]

Thanks.. I got an ignition key cut with the code off the original key by a locksmith.. but the bags were just jammed

[theportunionkid]

I had same issue with my right bag had to drill rivets and use long extension w/8mm socket gently hold bag halfs apart remove cover and latch to get it open. took lock and tumbler apart and found basically what Great White said. I didn't shim but cleaned up slot and lug with dremmel and a file cleaned and lubed reassembled. When I open or close bag I hold down on key and tumblers when turning them, while squeezing bag closed, to reduce friction on lock mechanism, so it does not slip out of slot. Then I switched locks left for right. Don't use left near as much.