Tartan Terror Posted June 21, 2007 Share #1 Posted June 21, 2007 They say you cant fight City hall! The industry is moving toward Nitorgen filling of tires and Im gonna buy the machine for my Tire business. Even though for normal use I do think its kind of excessive there are a few benefits we can use here. Funny thing is a while ago I was against it but recently with new data Ive been kind of swayed in some cases. Nitrogen filling of tires will help us in one case. It expands and contracts far less than regular air so you tires will stay a more constant pressure on your bike. We know handling will vary by pressure this can help keep it more consistant. Nitrogen will also (If properly installed) contain less water then regular pump air so it will help reduce the corrosion of wheels on the inside. Also since its a larger molecule and also an inert gas your tires in most cases will hold their inflation better. Im not saying that you will not lose any air and you should still check it regularly but all these things can help us. If you get a leak or need to ad air on the road you can just mix it. Just when you get a chance purge the air and refill. To do a passenger tire right now the cost is in the area of $10 a tire Ill keep all you posted on how this goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibvel Posted June 21, 2007 Share #2 Posted June 21, 2007 Guess we've got it good down here. My tire place does it for $5.00 a tire. I've been thinking of putting Nitrogen in the bike tires but then we use Liquid nitrogen around here and all I'd have to do is wheel a high pressure tank outside and filler up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Terror Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share #3 Posted June 21, 2007 Guess we've got it good down here. My tire place does it for $5.00 a tire. I've been thinking of putting Nitrogen in the bike tires but then we use Liquid nitrogen around here and all I'd have to do is wheel a high pressure tank outside and filler up. Considering a machine to do it starts around 10,000 that is great. Most dealers charge $75 per car (All 4) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibvel Posted June 21, 2007 Share #4 Posted June 21, 2007 I had a feeling that the machines were pretty expensive to purchase and maintain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Terror Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share #5 Posted June 21, 2007 I had a feeling that the machines were pretty expensive to purchase and maintain. You bet they are. I put off buying one hoping this was just gonna be a fad but I guess its here and I have to adapt and survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadKill Posted June 21, 2007 Share #6 Posted June 21, 2007 They say you cant fight City hall! The industry is moving toward Nitorgen filling of tires and Im gonna buy the machine for my Tire business. Even though for normal use I do think its kind of excessive there are a few benefits we can use here. Funny thing is a while ago I was against it but recently with new data Ive been kind of swayed in some cases. Nitrogen filling of tires will help us in one case. It expands and contracts far less than regular air so you tires will stay a more constant pressure on your bike. We know handling will vary by pressure this can help keep it more consistant. Nitrogen will also (If properly installed) contain less water then regular pump air so it will help reduce the corrosion of wheels on the inside. Also since its a larger molecule and also an inert gas your tires in most cases will hold their inflation better. Im not saying that you will not lose any air and you should still check it regularly but all these things can help us. If you get a leak or need to ad air on the road you can just mix it. Just when you get a chance purge the air and refill. To do a passenger tire right now the cost is in the area of $10 a tire Ill keep all you posted on how this goes. TT, My dad used to work for a welding supply store and got bottled Nitrogen for free that we used in all our tires 20years ago. Its true they don't heat up near as much with Nitrogen. He used to say though that as soon as you added regular air you lost all the benefit of the Nitrogen, unless you then emptied and refilled. Is that true? Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Terror Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share #7 Posted June 21, 2007 TT, My dad used to work for a welding supply store and got bottled Nitrogen for free that we used in all our tires 20years ago. Its true they don't heat up near as much with Nitrogen. He used to say though that as soon as you added regular air you lost all the benefit of the Nitrogen, unless you then emptied and refilled. Is that true? Jay That is true but if you need to do that in an emergency it wont hurt anything. Actually to install the nitogen properly you need to suck out the regular air or you will only get 80% total nitrogen. The proper way to install is evacuate the tire with teh machine which reduces it to 3 lb and fill with nitrogen. Then do this a second time and you will end up with over 99%. If you have nitogen and air mixed it wont hurt the tire but yu will lose all the benefits of doing that. You cant just let the air out and fill with nitrogen or you will have mostly nitrogen and some air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted June 21, 2007 Share #8 Posted June 21, 2007 In California, they used to charge a quarter to fill up your tire with air, if you could do it in 3 minutes. Now they have to provide air for free if you shop at the station. Go figure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary N. Posted June 21, 2007 Share #9 Posted June 21, 2007 I was talked into using it when I put tires on my boy's '95 Monte Carlo and have no regrets. That car always lost air around the aluminum rims and even though we would get them resealed they would still lose air. Since we got the nitrogen, no more problems. It cost $5/tire here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolling Barcalounger Posted June 21, 2007 Share #10 Posted June 21, 2007 The air we breathe is over 80% nitrogen already and about 8 to 10 % oxygen with the rest carbon dioxide and other gasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Terror Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share #11 Posted June 21, 2007 The air we breathe is over 80% nitrogen already and about 8 to 10 % oxygen with the rest carbon dioxide and other gasses. You forgot about the high percentage of Methane after the chili!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concours Posted June 21, 2007 Share #12 Posted June 21, 2007 this is the craziest thing ever.... just giving people one more reason to totally ignore the condition of their tires (and cars in general) until something (unexpected) happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoutman Posted June 21, 2007 Share #13 Posted June 21, 2007 Not to be pedantic about it, but atmospheric composition is 78% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases. This doesn't take into account the water vapor which varies with humidity. Under very warm conditions water vapor may be as much as 4%, and under very dry conditions much less than 1%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibvel Posted June 21, 2007 Share #14 Posted June 21, 2007 this is the craziest thing ever.... just giving people one more reason to totally ignore the condition of their tires (and cars in general) until something (unexpected) happens. On the contrary, I think most people, pretty much, already ignore their tires. This is just a way for people to not do as much damage while they ignore their tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flb_78 Posted June 21, 2007 Share #15 Posted June 21, 2007 I already fill my tires with 78 percent nitrogen... I dont see any real benefit, and I work in a tire shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG54172 Posted June 22, 2007 Share #16 Posted June 22, 2007 Buddy of mine raced his GT1 and GT2 cars always had a large bottle of nitrogen on the trailer. He used it to power his power tools (great for working on a car in the paddock) and fill his tires. One time he had a tire mounted on a rim at the track during 100% humidity day. (Torrential downpour) Forgot to compensate for humidty in his pre-race pressuure. When he came in the tire was about 20psi higher than normal, and needless to say it was corded. He was an extreme case. (550 horsepower GT1 Monte Carlo) I do not think there is much benifit to be had with a street car though. I attached a photo for you veiwing pleasure. That is me hanging out the passenger window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyghost Posted June 22, 2007 Share #17 Posted June 22, 2007 I bought 4 tires for my truck from Costco and they filled them with Nitregon for free when they installed them. I asked about bringing in my bike and the guy working there said if they were not busy he would do it for free. I had my tires installed last fall and I checked them off and on through the winter and had almost zero change in pressure and that was from minus 20 celsius (0 F) to plus 25celcius (80F) I plan on taking in my bike and trailer in before I head out to Nova Scotia in July I think even if I have to pay it will be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrood Posted June 22, 2007 Share #18 Posted June 22, 2007 There are several cases to be made for PROPERLY filling your tires with nitrogen, heat build up is reduced SLIGHTLY, less leakage, nitrogen molecules are larger so less overall leakage... But the trend was set at the racetrack for SAFETY. With high engine temps and exotic fuels around, you certainly don't want high pressure air involved... and even a blown tire (filled with regular air) could start or feed a fire. The REAL advantage is in the race pit equipment and their tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutty Posted June 24, 2007 Share #19 Posted June 24, 2007 Find me some thing that keeps nails out of tires and i'll buy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flb_78 Posted June 24, 2007 Share #20 Posted June 24, 2007 Find me some thing that keeps nails out of tires and i'll buy that. get one of those "green light triggers" and put it right in front of your tire and it'll pull all the nails up off the ground and they will stick to the magnet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutty Posted June 24, 2007 Share #21 Posted June 24, 2007 get one of those "green light triggers" and put it right in front of your tire and it'll pull all the nails up off the ground and they will stick to the magnet... Out of all the advice i have read on these forums, it comes close to making more sense than MOST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoutman Posted June 25, 2007 Share #22 Posted June 25, 2007 Considering this data, will someone please explain to me why I would care if the remaining 22% is nitrogen or not. How can this 22% make a difference? Nitrogen and Oxygen both compress at the same rate and make up the biggest part of standard air... so I don't see this. This seems like yet another scam to me. Its the oxygen and water that do harm to your tires. The water vapor expands at a much greater rate with each degree of temperature change. This means your tire pressure changes much more when warm or cold. The oxygen reacts with the rubber in the tire to degrade the tire compound. It is much worse on the inside of the tire where the temperature rises way above the outside temp. Then to top it off the static electricity electrolyzes the water vapor to creat hydrogen ions, which react with the CO2 to form carbolic acid, also degrading your tires. If you run pure dry nitrogen in your tires they won't change pressure as much when hot, which means more consistent performance hot or cold. Plus you can run them at a higher pressure and not worry about building excess pressure when warm. I don't think its a scam, but it doesn't make a huge difference to the average driver. I don't think it makes a big enough difference to spend $10.00 per tire. It does make a difference to the racer, so people that want to do everything to perfection will pay the extra dollars. And the people that sell tire services will gladly take their money. Nothing wrong with that as long as every body understands what they are getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Terror Posted June 25, 2007 Author Share #23 Posted June 25, 2007 Its the oxygen and water that do harm to your tires. The water vapor expands at a much greater rate with each degree of temperature change. This means your tire pressure changes much more when warm or cold. The oxygen reacts with the rubber in the tire to degrade the tire compound. It is much worse on the inside of the tire where the temperature rises way above the outside temp. Then to top it off the static electricity electrolyzes the water vapor to creat hydrogen ions, which react with the CO2 to form carbolic acid, also degrading your tires. If you run pure dry nitrogen in your tires they won't change pressure as much when hot, which means more consistent performance hot or cold. Plus you can run them at a higher pressure and not worry about building excess pressure when warm. I don't think its a scam, but it doesn't make a huge difference to the average driver. I don't think it makes a big enough difference to spend $10.00 per tire. It does make a difference to the racer, so people that want to do everything to perfection will pay the extra dollars. And the people that sell tire services will gladly take their money. Nothing wrong with that as long as every body understands what they are getting. Right you are! Unfortunately you cant just let the tire air out and just put nitogen in. The government gets involved with everything so in order to get the 99% nitrogen content into the tire you need to install the nitrogen in then pull it back out and reinstall. $10 isnt the cost of the materials. it covers the technicians time to do the process required to meet federal standards. And yes they do have a guage that can measure it we can be fined heavily if it is checked and dont meet the requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoutman Posted June 25, 2007 Share #24 Posted June 25, 2007 Right you are! Unfortunately you cant just let the tire air out and just put nitogen in. The government gets involved with everything so in order to get the 99% nitrogen content into the tire you need to install the nitrogen in then pull it back out and reinstall. $10 isnt the cost of the materials. it covers the technicians time to do the process required to meet federal standards. And yes they do have a guage that can measure it we can be fined heavily if it is checked and dont meet the requirements. Scott, I completely understand the cost if government is involved. I work in a heavily regulated industry and our prices would be 1/3 what they are if we didn't have to deal with regulators (OK maybe more if people were willing to pay). Unfortunately if we weren't regulated some unscrupulous idiot would screw things up for the honest ones and somebody would get hurt. Just the price we pay. The other thing is I think some businesses rely on the regulators to keep the competition at bay. If regulators raise the cost of entry into a business the ones that benifit are the ones already in business. Also, I don't care if you charge $30.00 per tire as long as your customer knows what they are getting and agrees to pay the price. Things are worth what somebody is willing to pay and somebody else is willing to sell. OK rant off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrood Posted June 25, 2007 Share #25 Posted June 25, 2007 Originally Posted by flb_78 get one of those "green light triggers" and put it right in front of your tire and it'll pull all the nails up off the ground and they will stick to the magnet... So I put this big magnet in front of the wheel... expecting to pick up every nail and screw in my way... Things seemed fine until I pulled up on a car at a stop light. Now can someone help me get the magnet unstuck from the car? I'd really like to drive to MY home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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