tiny84 Posted June 17, 2007 Share #1 Posted June 17, 2007 Ok so here is my issue (the only thing keeping my venture royale from going down the road) My bike runs mint now bled all the hydralic systems fresh oil change and rearend oil but the clutch wont letgo. I start the bike on the center stand to test everything out, press on the front brake and clutch and kick it into gear, bike starts clunking around a bit and spinning the rear wheel even with the clutch all the way in. if i press on the rear brake it will stall out the engine. any ideas of what needs to be done? I've orderd new clutch springs as I dont realy want to mess with replaceing the whole clutch right now. I'm still new at working on bikes. I do know if I replace one spring at a time I wont end up dissassembling the clutch and it should be a realativly easy job. and just see if that does the trick. Could it be from not enough oil? I put 3 quarts in but not 100% that was enough. I'm working blind as I dont have a manual. bike did sit for 6 years could it fix itself if I just kept running it (clutch sticking from nonuse for so long?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted June 17, 2007 Share #2 Posted June 17, 2007 First of all, you need to determine if the clutch lever is working correctly. Does it feel like it has the proper resistance in the proper area? At about 1/4 the way in you should have it feel like it is getting more difficult to pull in, but still be able to pull in smoothly. Also, if the bike has been sitting for a long time, the clutch plates may be stuck together. It may just take putting the bike on the ground and seeing if you can get it to go into first gear with the clutch pulled in. It may scrape a bit, but I don't think it will necessarily hurt anything. Another thing to consider is taking the clutch cover off and taking all six bolts and springs apart and separate the clutch discs by hand. It is easy to do and nothing will fly apart. You can also do this with out loosing any oil if you do it with the bike on the side stand. As far as the oil level, there is a sight class with an upper and lower mark under the right foot peg. This needs to be checked with the bike on the center stand. RandyA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted June 17, 2007 Share #3 Posted June 17, 2007 All of the above, and.... it could be low fluid or air traped in the master. Do a search for reverse bleeding of the clutch. I had that happen a couple of times, and reverse bleeding was the only way I could get the dang thing to start working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Leonard G. Robertson Posted June 17, 2007 Share #4 Posted June 17, 2007 Tiny84, I own 3 bikes (1300 Yamaha, 1200 goldwing, 1500 goldwing) & they all three have clutch release problems after they sit over night. I always park them in nuetral if it is overnight. As soon as they start momentarily in nuetral ,then it releases fine for all day. I've known other friends having the same experience with their bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiny84 Posted June 17, 2007 Author Share #5 Posted June 17, 2007 Ok I'm not sure how to go about "reverse bleeding" could you be a lil more discriptive as to what I would need to do? as far as the clutch lever it does have a bit more pressure at 1/4 way in. but it doesn't feel as stiff as my 86 kawasaki ninja. i'm off tomorrow So i'll be pulling apart that clutch. is there anything i'm gonna need to know about taking the clutch apart before I end up with a bunch of clutch plates with out being sure how they go back in there? lol Honestly I'm getting pretty antsy to get some rideing in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeeze Posted June 17, 2007 Share #6 Posted June 17, 2007 Hi, new Springs won't help if the Clutch is sticking. The Springs are pressing the Plates together and the Force from the Hydraulic is pushing the Plates against the Force of the Springs to uncompress the Plate-Package. Sticking means, that there is not enough Travel on the Clutchcylinder. Or Air in the Line. I think bleeding the Clutch propely will help you on that Hassle. While doing that, either the standard Way or Upside down, watch the Line for any Bows that go above the lower Level of the Mastercylinder. If you are not able to get those Bows temporarily under the Mastecylinder, you gonna spend Hours and Hours of not gaining any Progress. Pls don't ask how do i know ... :( If you feel some Resitance on the Lever, you could try to pull the Lever against the Handlebar over the Night, using a Tie Strap or a Cable. This will force the Bubbles in the Line upwards to the Reservoir, where they come out of the Line the next Morning while releasing the Lever. It takes some Hours to work out, so over Night works for me. Proceed this several Nights and you will feel it coming better and better. But this won't help if there are Bows above the Level of the Mastercylinder. I actually proceed this every Time after Work on the Brakes or Clutch, so i don't need to bleed the Line, just because i opened a Banjo-Bolt for Seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted June 17, 2007 Share #7 Posted June 17, 2007 Ok I'm not sure how to go about "reverse bleeding" could you be a lil more discriptive as to what I would need to do? . Basically it's forcing the DOT 3 or 4 up the clutch lines from the bleeder valve, thru the slave, and into the reserve. Since air will rise in the lines, it's almost impossible to force the air down thru the lines, thru the slave, and out the bleeder valve. There are several different ways to accomplish reverse bleeding, but they all do the same thing. i.e. force the fluid from the bleeder valve up into the reserve. With a standard OEM valve you can just loosen it, attach a clear plastic tube for a visual, and use what ever method you can conger up as an injection tool... Everyone seems to have their own method for this. I personally use a rubber ear bulb, but since I have a speed bleeder installed I have to remove it. With the top of the master reserve removed start forcing fluid into the lines, being carefull not to force so much in that it overflows the reserve bowl. You can actually hear the air bubble out. It won't take long, but once no more air can be heard, lock down the bleeder valve, make sure the reserve level is OK, and you're good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yammer Dan Posted June 17, 2007 Share #8 Posted June 17, 2007 Watch the notches in the clutch plates when you pull them out and put them back in same position. put them in some fresh oil and wipe them down with it. Make sure you put them back in same position nothing is going to fly apart as Randy said. Don't overtighten springs when putting them back the torque is only about 10 lbs can't find it right now but just good and snug. Bleed it and you will have a clutch and go try it out!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhncue Posted June 17, 2007 Share #9 Posted June 17, 2007 If the bike has sat for awhile the plates may have sort of glued themselves to each other. When starting my bike after it has sat for a period, I put the bike in third gear, before starting the engine and then with the clutch lever pulled in, I rock the bike back and forth until the plates break loose from each other. I then put the bike back in neutral and start and engage first gear as usual. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutty Posted June 17, 2007 Share #10 Posted June 17, 2007 If you're going to work on it Monday, today pull the clutch in half dozen times and keep the clutch handle tied to the handle bar ( rag, tape, wrap tie ) on your last pull. Put bike on center stand in an open area, in neutral start engine let motor run until fans come on for 2 to 3 mins. Leave clutch handle in that position over night and see the results in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiny84 Posted June 17, 2007 Author Share #11 Posted June 17, 2007 Ok I think I scewed something up! I took the clutch plates out today seperated all the plates and passed each one through some fresh oil but now that I have reassembled the clutch... in exactly the same order and position I might add, but now the clutch lever takes everything I can to squeez the clutch lever in. Any ideas on what I did wrong? do I need to bleed the clutch again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted June 17, 2007 Share #12 Posted June 17, 2007 Ok I think I scewed something up! I took the clutch plates out today seperated all the plates and passed each one through some fresh oil but now that I have reassembled the clutch... in exactly the same order and position I might add, but now the clutch lever takes everything I can to squeez the clutch lever in. Any ideas on what I did wrong? do I need to bleed the clutch again? Take the presure plate off again and then try to gently squeeze the lever. If moves easily then the plates are binding. Possibily a tab is hanging in the channel. If it's still hard to move your slave could be bad due to rust and sitting. There may be other things, but that seems the most logical right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted June 18, 2007 Share #13 Posted June 18, 2007 A couple of years ago, the clutch lever on my 83 got more and more difficult to pull in. It ended up being junk in the metal part of the line below the engine, going to the slave cylinder. Once I cleaned it out and bled the system again, it worked fine. When you are bleeding yours, does it have much restriction when you open the the bleed valve? RandyA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiny84 Posted June 18, 2007 Author Share #14 Posted June 18, 2007 it gets alot softer but yes it does still have some resistance. how do i go about cleaning that portion out? i'm guessing i need to take the plate out of the left hand side of the engine. wich will mean fresh oil again i'm guessing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yammer Dan Posted June 18, 2007 Share #15 Posted June 18, 2007 Did all the notches come out and go back in the same place. What I mean is they are all lined up? Plate with springs go back same place? There are marks on it to line it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiny84 Posted June 18, 2007 Author Share #16 Posted June 18, 2007 Yeah i was very carefull to make note of notches and where they lined up. it did seem to hel with the rear wheel spinning issue but now the clutch lever just wont budge so i'm thinking randya is correct that i have crud in the hydralic lines somewhere but all the fluid seems clean now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yammer Dan Posted June 18, 2007 Share #17 Posted June 18, 2007 Handle hard as a rock when you try to pull it? Something not lined up. Probally plate with springs. Can pull handle ? Try bleeding. Could be plugged line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiny84 Posted June 18, 2007 Author Share #18 Posted June 18, 2007 ok so i took the clutch plates off again and the clutch lever is still very hard and the push rod bairly moves so it seems to me that the line has plenty of pressure in the line in fact it seems now that the clutch is stuck out so that it wont spin the rear wheel. i'm thinking i'm going to have to tear down the hydralic side of the clutch and clean it out completly and bleed the lines again. should be loads of fun. well it will give me something to do tomorrow after work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted June 18, 2007 Share #19 Posted June 18, 2007 tiny, you did not answer my last question. What happens when you open the bleeder valve on the slave cylinder? Is it still hard to pull the clutch lever in? RandyA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yammer Dan Posted June 18, 2007 Share #20 Posted June 18, 2007 Do as Randy said. If you open bleeder on slave cylinder and it is still hard to pull you have a restriction somewhere. Might bleed it out but most likely taking things apart and cleaning them. Did system have fluid when you got it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeeze Posted June 18, 2007 Share #21 Posted June 18, 2007 Hi, first check out what RandyA said. Open the Bleeder-Valve and look what happens. If there is a Lot of Pressure in the Line, it will shoot out while opening the Bleeder, be aware of that and open it carefully with a clear Hose fairly attached to the Bleeder. Once you opened it, try to pull the Lever and see what happens. If the Levers moves easy, keep the Bleeder open and mount the Pressure Plate. Before mounting the Pressure-Plate, try to get the mushroom shaped Pinion pushed over to the left Side. You just might have the right Boring on the bottom of the Mastercylinder clogged. Or ... did you change the Clutch-Lever while working on the Clutch ? There are some Aftermarket-Parts, which do not fit perfectly. If the Lever is out of correct Dimensions, it could happen that the Pinion in the MC isn't released all the Way back. This pumps up the Pressure in the Line and the lower Cylinder. Friend of mine suffered this for 3 Weeks until we found this Catch22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiny84 Posted June 18, 2007 Author Share #22 Posted June 18, 2007 sorry no its not hard to pull the lever in if the bleeder valve is open, and yes the system did have fluid in it when i got it all be it merky but it did have fluid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeway Posted June 18, 2007 Share #23 Posted June 18, 2007 Flush with new fluid till I is perfectly clear, but with opening the bleeder freeing up the lever, you should check for an alignment problem in the clutch. wt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeeze Posted June 18, 2007 Share #24 Posted June 18, 2007 sorry no its not hard to pull the lever in if the bleeder valve is open, and yes the system did have fluid in it when i got it all be it merky but it did have fluid So, this reduces the Error to either the Push Rod or the Aligment of the Plates. Please, close the Bleeder-Valve and take the Pressure Plate out and push the Pinion#19 over to the left Side of the Bike. Then, put a little Pressure with your Hand on the Pinion and pull the Clutch Lever on the Handlebar slowly. The Pinion should now move towards the right Side of the Bike. You can feel that in your Fingers. When you release the Clutch Lever, the Pinion should be moved back in most left Position with little Pressure of your Hand. The complete Travel of the Pinion should be around 2 Millimeters, a bit less than one tenth on an Inch. Don't pull the Lever completly to Handlebar, this does no good. 80 Percent of the Travel should be enough for that Test. If the Pinion is working as expected, the Fault should be in the Assembly of the Clutch. Check everything before reassembling and make sure, that the Pressure Plate's Bearing fits in the Pinion#19 you tested before. Best thing is to asseble the Pressure-Plate is to use only 3 Bolts in a cross Pattern. Make 2 Turns on each Bolt, then go the next Bolt, 2 Turns, next Bolt and so until you got all three almost tightened. Then bring in the other 3 Bolts, also in a cross Pattern. If you have all setted, tighten all 6 Bolts in cross Pattern. After you reassembled the Clutch, you should be able to see the Pressure Plate moving when the Clutch Lever is pulled, and it should travel back on it's own, when depressing the Lever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiny84 Posted June 18, 2007 Author Share #25 Posted June 18, 2007 ok pinion is not working correctly. no plates on the bike right now and the pinion will bairly "wiggle" when i press on the lever as hard as i can i might add. how do i free up the pinion to move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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