Fuel Pump replacement...and best carb clean "how to"

ok.

I have my new to me '86 which is a gorgeous machine....but has a weird carb (or not carb issue) that has been detailed on here by the previous owner.

Basically when good and hot, if you shut it down the carbs will overflow when you try to start it again.

part of me wonders if this is actually a fuel pump issue. (had a jeep with a fuel pump go bad...wasnt a lot different symptoms)

I am thinking that it would be worth the time to replace it regardless.

1. Any good "how to" on that.

2. I have seen a 'Mr Gasket' fuel pump....is that what I need to buy?

Also, I now have a donor bike. another '86 Royale. It hasnt been titled in 4 years. I was told stator or something similar is wrong. I MIGHT at some point try to get it running (it has a title...lol) for now, it is parts bike. If I DO try to get it running, it would have to be a rat rod project. Missing much plastic, and over all rougher condition. Because the carbs on my bike have been a problem, was thinking of cleaning the ones off the parts bike....see also if that helps the issue. I have found this in the other sites tech library http://www.venturers.org/Tech_Library/index.php?action=article&cat_id=001010&id=366

1. Is that the best how too, or is there videos or something else I should look into?

2. Is the ebay carb kit going to be what I need for parts, or is there something better?

3. Anything else I should do when I have carbs off etc?

Could you check the fuel level in the carb(s) when hot when you try to restart to see if it happens when the fuel pump turns on or are they flooded before the fuel pump starts running? Sounds reasonable to me that if the pump is causing too high fuel pressure it could cause the carbs to overflow. But, I'm not a Venture expert like some of the owners on this site.

Can you let us know who the previous owner was so we can go back and check on that he has done or asked us about? This might save us some time in troubleshooting it for you.

Thanks

Rick F.

Is this that stunning 2 tone black/gold machine we saw a few weeks back with the carb difficulties?

Could you check the fuel level in the carb(s) when hot when you try to restart to see if it happens when the fuel pump turns on or are they flooded before the fuel pump starts running? Sounds reasonable to me that if the pump is causing too high fuel pressure it could cause the carbs to overflow. But, I'm not a Venture expert like some of the owners on this site.

The pump works by cocking a diaphragm against a spring, then the spring pushes the fuel. Short of replacing the spring I don't see any way the fuel pressure could be too high.

My bet is floats and/or float valves.

Is this that stunning 2 tone black/gold machine we saw a few weeks back with the carb difficulties?

Yes.... Love, love, love the bike.... But I have been afraid to put many miles on it until I figure this issues out.

My bet is floats and/or float valves.

This was kind of the first thought.... But what would the operating temperature do to affect the floats? It clearly is not having issues till good and hot.

I don't know if the float valves can get grooves in them or not being you have the rubber tipped one. Mine was doing just about the same thing till I finally gave in and pulled my carbs and pulled the bowl off and pulled the float out. I happened to be working on it outside and seen immediatly in the sunlight what I had been missing all along. I could not see the imperfections under my 120 watts of florescent bulbs, that is what there called isnt it the tube lights. I have 8 of them float valves and seats, I can not use them on my carbs its totally different seat and needle...

snyper316 may be on to something.

Yes, rubber tipped needles can get the grooves.

My guess is that something isn't quite right and it's more apparent when the carburetors and fuel get good and hot from sitting over a hot engine.

Does the fuel spill stop when fresh, cool fuel gets into the carburetors? Or does it keep flowing until you let the motorcycle cool down?

Just a wild thought. Could it be possible that the gas tank is not vented properly and when the bike sits while hot, the gas expands from the engine heat and forces gas into the carbs when you hit start that turns on the pump?????

Just a wild thought. Could it be possible that the gas tank is not vented properly and when the bike sits while hot, the gas expands from the engine heat and forces gas into the carbs when you hit start that turns on the pump?????

I

can test this...I could get it good and hot, and see what happens, and add fuel and see if that helps.

Might be able to tell even just if I feel pressure released when I open the fuel cap.

I will check the pumps and compare that, and see if I can get see differences.

I will also check venting on the carbs and the tank.

I will post more this weekend when I have a chance to really test a few things.

Here's another way out in left field thought, but anything is possible. Are those two black plastic heat shields that keep the exhaust heat off the motor still on the bike??

snyper316 may be on to something.

 

Yes, rubber tipped needles can get the grooves.

 

My guess is that something isn't quite right and it's more apparent when the carburetors and fuel get good and hot from sitting over a hot engine.

 

Does the fuel spill stop when fresh, cool fuel gets into the carburetors? Or does it keep flowing until you let the motorcycle cool down?

I had an elusive leak on number 2 carb on my bike never would leak in front of me. I would let the bike get good and warm and keep checking the carbs. Idled in drive for 2 hours and still no sign. Rod and/or fool kept telling Me stuck float.. Come to find out the needle had grooves in it and I will say no more.... I replaced the float needle tho.... But after an hour of shutting it off I would find a wet carb....

"Never ride faster then your guardian angel can fly."

Problem I just had with the 85 I'm working on is that the vent hose on #1 carb was plugged and the gas would shoot out the top of the air hole for the main jet. Since the air compressed in the top of the carb it would not fill the carb bowl leaving the float open and pressure up the system. Creating a spring out the top.

If you take the air box off then blow on the carb vent lines you should get a gas "spring" out the top of the carb that you are blowing on ( at the air vent hole )

Don't know if that will help or not.

OK. Today was the first time I have been able to get out and ride the bike and try to see what was going on.

Ive dont nothing to it because I just wanted to recreate the problem.

I started it up, rode to town and got gas. about 16 miles at 65mph. (cruise is not working...blech)

Stopped at gas station, fully expecting it to not start once I got it filled. It started fine. Rode it home another 16 miles and parked it. No real problems.

Smells to me like a little unburned fuel in the garage, perhaps running rich. Also the idle is up between 1500 and 2000 rpms. Seems like its in bad tune.

Let it sit 20 minutes. Still no problem starting it. (there is a slight hesitation when I first hit the start button...like its not quite strong enough to get through that first compression stroke...then its fine) I am not seeing the issues he had.

I have NOT done anything to the bike. Like I said...its in bad tune. Carbs are not sync'd for sure.

I kind of wonder if I should just try to adjust the carbs then sync the carbs and ride it.

OK. Today was the first time I have been able to get out and ride the bike and try to see what was going on.

 

Ive dont nothing to it because I just wanted to recreate the problem.

 

I started it up, rode to town and got gas. about 16 miles at 65mph. (cruise is not working...blech)

 

Stopped at gas station, fully expecting it to not start once I got it filled. It started fine. Rode it home another 16 miles and parked it. No real problems.

Smells to me like a little unburned fuel in the garage, perhaps running rich. Also the idle is up between 1500 and 2000 rpms. Seems like its in bad tune.

 

Let it sit 20 minutes. Still no problem starting it. (there is a slight hesitation when I first hit the start button...like its not quite strong enough to get through that first compression stroke...then its fine) I am not seeing the issues he had.

 

I have NOT done anything to the bike. Like I said...its in bad tune. Carbs are not sync'd for sure.

I kind of wonder if I should just try to adjust the carbs then sync the carbs and ride it.

Ok, the "hot start" thing is a known issue and probably unrelated, I even saw it in mine once or twice. I cant link the fix but itd documented here. I think its just battery cables are too small.

A high or hanging idle could easily be carbs out of synch, it should sit at around 1050 and when warm with no choke a throttle blip should snap right back to a steady idle with no real hang. Out of synch and probably slow to return to idle. If you have a synch gauge now is a good time to drag it out and just check, adjust to rule that out, maybe see how far out the AF screws are. If you dont have a synch tool the Morgan Carbtune is a great one for not too much, its a popular choice among the V4 crowd.

I really kind of felt like it was a battery thing with the hot start....the cables makes since. I wasnt really thinking it was related....nor a BIG problem.

I do NOT have one....but the carbotune is kind of what I was thinking of getting as well. I think I should do that...adjust idle...and see what happens maybe.

I need to pull the airbox off when its hot and see whats going on with vents etc before I make that call 100%

Carbtune is very good, i think the motion pro is one some folks have had trouble with. I use the Morgan as a point of regular maintainance or anytime I touch the carbs, between the Venture and Vmax it has paid for itself maybe 10 times over.

With the airbox off it will probably pop and que....er chuff throuh the carbs as you blip the throttle and thats normal. The CV carbs rely on the intake restriction. When I synch and tune I do it with air box and filter in place and screwed down.

I read before about bigger battery cables addressing the hot start issue but its hard to link with the phone.

But yea, dial it in, if its not leaking anything and running cool, tires are good and everything seems good, ride that bad boy! I maybe wouldnt get too far from home at first in case that issue creeps back up, honestly if your 30+ mile ride didnt make anything happen then I would be cautiously optimistic that a good dialing in might take care of her. Really glad its looking good, and really sorry I didnt go jump on that bike myself, its the color that is almost as cool as blue

The Gen 1 Ventures 83 thru 90 have a weak 2 brush starter. Installing larger battery cables helps but the real fix is to install a 4 brush starter from a 91 or newer XVZ1300 engine. It could come from a Gen1 91 - 93 or the RSTD bikes or the Venture 99 and newer. Supposed to be a bolt in. You can find these starters on ebay from $50 and up.

I got a few more miles on today.

got plates and insurance handled to make it legal

Still seems good so far, again, I am not roaming too far from home.

Bought Carbtune off ebay....should get in a few days.

In the short term...

1. still no cruise. need to research that

2. Vents on the legs will not stay open....and tricks for that

3. left mirror is loose or something. When I adjust it, once wind gets it, it moves down

4. when cold...it idles just over 1,000. When hot its much higher. My thought is the idle should be adjusted to idle at the right rpms while warm right? Should I do this before the carbtune gets here, or as its sync'd?

overall, it is so much more fun to ride and handles better than the 2010 Harley Street Glide i was using before. This weekend I did 200 miles on that Harley and it just made me want this to where I felt comfortable on longer distances.

I got a few more miles on today.

got plates and insurance handled to make it legal

 

Still seems good so far, again, I am not roaming too far from home.

 

Bought Carbtune off ebay....should get in a few days.

 

In the short term...

1. still no cruise. need to research that

2. Vents on the legs will not stay open....and tricks for that

3. left mirror is loose or something. When I adjust it, once wind gets it, it moves down

4. when cold...it idles just over 1,000. When hot its much higher. My thought is the idle should be adjusted to idle at the right rpms while warm right? Should I do this before the carbtune gets here, or as its sync'd?

 

overall, it is so much more fun to ride and handles better than the 2010 Harley Street Glide i was using before. This weekend I did 200 miles on that Harley and it just made me want this to where I felt comfortable on longer distances.

I am almost willing to bet the float was stuck, and in the grand scheme of things getting it to your house all that shake rattling and rolling knocked it loose, mine when it gets warm idles confortably around 1150+/- rpm when I first start mine it idles right around 800+/- rpm. We used to have same problem with vents in an old 68 Dodge 1 ton. We used clothespins to hold the vents open. Mine does the same thing, I actually have my leggings removed. I like the look plus they need repaired and haven't got to it yet. I have a mechanical cruise as long as I am on level I just set it and forget it. Only use it to give my hand a rest. Not sure what to do about the mirror, if its a worn pivot then pull it off and see if there is a screw there. If not Ebay has some for fairly cheap.

One of the cool tricks brought out here for the vents is to use those foam earplugs to wedge the fins open. It is an unfortunate fact of life that the plastic gets worn and they don't stay open.

The issue with the mirror is also a very common problem and unfortunately, you really can't disassemble them and tighten the screw to stiffen them up so you kind of need to replace them. There is a trick but very dangerous to try, it involves injecting a very small amount of acetone into the joint and rotating the joint for a while. What happens is the plastic will semi-melt and kind of fuse together, which is why you want to keep rotating the pieces until the chemical reaction stabilizes. This method may or may not work but what do you have to loose?? There have been people who take the base and thread it for 11mm screw in mirrors...

Yes, you need to get your carbs synchronized before doing a final idle adjustment as the sync will affect the idle speed somewhat. They want to be synced at 1000 rpm's if possible. These carbs are very complex with multiple "circuits" depending on rpm's and many things can and do go wrong from plugged passageways to tears in the rubber diaphragms. There is an excellent video out there by a man by the name of Damon Ferraiuolo (sp?) on rebuilding VMax carbs available on ebay but the procedure is identical for the Venture carbs with the exception of jet sizes which is also brought out in the video. The DVD sells for $12 and it is a very worthwhile investment!!

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?119186-Bought-Carb-Rebuild-Video-by-Damon-Ferraiuolo&highlight=damon

X2 on getting the synch tool after it, trying to adjust it without that is like pissing up a waterfall. Its satisfying to turn the screws and hear it straighten out as you get the bars closer and closer, get the nice crisp idle and effortless off idle ridability, yup, thats when life is good! Really glad she feels like a good fit, I only just started really riding mine and I'm surprised by how comfy and competent it is.

I second the video, I got both the engine and carburetor video for 20. I also have the Morgan carbtune. I didn't have my sync to far out but when I got it dialed in with the carbtune made a world of difference. And Bob I never did think of an earplug.. That is a cool suggestion I will remember that one.

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I sent an email to that guy to get his videos. Sounds like a great resource for a few bucks.

CabTune should be here Monday and I can try and get them dialed in.

I love the earplug idea on the vents...I will be trying that for sure.

I have a parts bike, so I can see if either of them have a better mirror to swap in, otherwise its aftermarket. lol.

Thanks for all the help so far.