DanC Posted January 31, 2012 Share #1 Posted January 31, 2012 I would like to know if anyone in Fla or South Ga. is planning on doing a valve job on their Venture. I do not need one on my bike but I have read all the posts on our site and really want to try it. I plan on learning it and then helping our members out. I have a carbtune and could teach that now and do adjustment for members. The valve adjustment is very interesting to me and so I would like to help, watch and learn. Please let me know and I will drive to the event/maintenance day or days. I also would purchase a shim kit for all to use. If anyone has one for sale please let me know as well. I am more than ready to tackle this job. Thanks to Goose for his excellent write up on how to perform this maintenance task. thanks, DanC:cool10: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2012 Share #2 Posted January 31, 2012 I may be interested in doing one as well, sometime in late April or May though. Between the two of us im sure we could figure something out. I also have a carbtune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanC Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share #3 Posted January 31, 2012 I would like to know if anyone in Fla or South Ga. is planning on doing a valve job on their Venture. I do not need one on my bike but I have read all the posts on our site and really want to try it. I plan on learning it and then helping our members out. I have a carbtune and could teach that now and do adjustment for members. The valve adjustment is very interesting to me and so I would like to help, watch and learn. Please let me know and I will drive to the event/maintenance day or days. I also would purchase a shim kit for all to use. If anyone has one for sale please let me know as well. I am more than ready to tackle this job. Thanks to Goose for his excellent write up on how to perform this maintenance task. thanks, DanC:cool10: Talked to Cowboy today he really wants to do his bike. So were are going to try to get together and get this done either at his place or mine. We need someone who has performed the valve check/replacement of shims to steer us along. We are both willing and able to learn the procedure. We do not have anything to do the job with, special valve tool, valve kit or knowledge. Just enough knowledge to be dangerious. ha ha HELP!! Where is Goose??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hig4s Posted January 31, 2012 Share #4 Posted January 31, 2012 Talked to Cowboy today he really wants to do his bike. So were are going to try to get together and get this done either at his place or mine. We need someone who has performed the valve check/replacement of shims to steer us along. We are both willing and able to learn the procedure. We do not have anything to do the job with, special valve tool, valve kit or knowledge. Just enough knowledge to be dangerious. ha ha HELP!! Where is Goose??? Valve check is easy,, only need feeler gauges. Once you need to make adjustments is when you need the valve tool, (I have not done it on a Venture, but did on my old Seca which uses the same shim in bucket system and same size shims) The problem comes with there is no way to know how many or what size shims you need until you take them out and read what size they are.. With any luck you can move a few around and only will need three or four total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh3 Posted February 1, 2012 Share #5 Posted February 1, 2012 AS hig4s says, you can do all the mesurments, but unless you have a supply of heavens knows how many and what size your kind of stuck. On the plus note from what I have been able to learn the venture uses the same shim theat Yamaha has used since I dunno when. I know its the same shims that go in the FJ1200 in my legends car. It never seemed to fail when I ran the valves on that thing I allways had to do it twice. Once to check and agin because I had to order shims and wait on them. I have some, but they are probably way to big for what we need. As the legends runs so hard it pulls the valves thru the head almost. I bought a stock head and got all those shims. Guess I can look and see what I got. Unfortunatly the compressor tool is completly different. I have thought about buying one but right now it aint in the budget. Them suckers are pricey. I have done the FJ1200, kawaski 900 that are bucket shim and back in the day the old honda screw and lock nut jobs. Really I like those best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hig4s Posted February 1, 2012 Share #6 Posted February 1, 2012 The first time I did my Seca 750, I pulled every shim, even if the did not need to be changed, and wrote down what size they were and what cylinder and valve they were on and filed the info away. that way I could just measure, refer to the sheet if any were off, and know what size to order before actually needing all the tools again.. This becomes even more important with newer design engines, My 03 Kaw ZR7S, had shim under bucket which requires removal of the cams to change the shims. not something you want to have to do twice each time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh3 Posted February 2, 2012 Share #7 Posted February 2, 2012 I was amazed at how many different sized shims there are diameter wise. These bikes take like nickle sized shims and my Kawasaki took shims about the size of a pencil eraser. Same shim goes in a Honda Cr25 or something. That was a life saver, as I have a guy that does dirt bike work and I knew he would have the shim localy. Not so sure about these big ole jobs. I have no dealer of any sort in town now. Closest one is 40 min away. Then if you look up the prices on a dealer web site crap they want like $10 a piece. From what they said on the Kawaski boards youd be better to be a little loose than tight. What I mean is if it is a .015-.018 your better off to be at the .018 then to shim it and be .014 if you cant make it in the window. The guys looking to do the valve adjustment. Where are you located? What day are you looking at possibly doing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyR Posted February 2, 2012 Share #8 Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I have plenty of shims except those under 2.70mm where I have just enough to proceed with a shim job (statistically speaking). So if you borrow my kit you'd need to replace any in that size range that got used up. Otherwise swapping around 1 for 1 is ok. You should be able get the shims for about $7 new or $3-4 used. Member MiCarl has them forsale and offers a VR member discount. Watch ebay for people selling sets from parts bikes. Thats how I built up an kit. These are 25mm shims (almost exactly 1 inch) and used on a LOT of older bikes, and still a few new ones. Also used on a Toyota auto engine of the 1970-1990 vintage which was the biggest selling engine of all times. However the Toyota shims tend to the thick range. btw the heads on the Toyota were designed by Yamaha. One should mic all old and new shims if possible. I think one needs to use a good dial micrometer that is accurate to .005mm or better. I would not use a slide caliper for this. The reason I state this is that I've found some shims are off by .01 or .02mm one way or the other from the size marked on them. So if the old shim was off .02 one way, and the new shim is off .02 the other way, you could be .04mm off in your expected clearance when done. Also, be carefull when using your feeler gauges that you don't have 2 of them stick together. A couple of times I've gotten strange results that needed correction when I rechecked clearances. I don't know what else to attribute this to other than a measuring problem with the feeler gauges. always check clearances a 2nd time before finishing with the job. Buy your gaskets from skydoc and he'll loan you a kit. Edited February 2, 2012 by RandyR removed incorrect reference to v7goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh3 Posted February 2, 2012 Share #9 Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Because its a tedious job and I dont like to do things twice like this I allways measure the clearences twice sometimes 3 times. Yea I have had the gauges stick together more than once. Usually I run thru it once all the way measuring twice then go back thru to confirm one last time. Hey I'm not a flat rate mechanic anymore so I can. I'm a retired aircraft mechanic and you dang sure want to make sure they are right when your done. Just checked my supply stock. It seems I'm loaded in the say 268 to 278 range like prob 8 or so. Maybe 6 or so under that but a couple of those are like 210-220. So when time comes I shouldbe OK I hope. Edited February 2, 2012 by djh3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7Goose Posted February 2, 2012 Share #10 Posted February 2, 2012 v7goose has stated that one should mic all old and new shims if possible. I think one needs to use a good dial micrometer that is accurate to .005mm or better. I would not use a slide caliper for this. The reason I state this is that I've found some shims are off by .01 or .02mm one way or the other from the size marked on them. So if the old shim was off .02 one way, and the new shim is off .02 the other way, you could be .04mm off in your expected clearance when done. Uh, I don't think so - maybe I just forgot ever saying that, but it is not something I believe. I would actually be very surprised to find any shim that measured different from the markings on it. On the other hand, I DO absolutely believe that it is important to carefully measure the clearance both BEFORE changing any shim and again AFTER changing any shim to make sure the change produced the correct clearance. Maybe this caused the confusion? Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyR Posted February 2, 2012 Share #11 Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Uh, I don't think so - maybe I just forgot ever saying that, but it is not something I believe. I would actually be very surprised to find any shim that measured different from the markings on it. On the other hand, I DO absolutely believe that it is important to carefully measure the clearance both BEFORE changing any shim and again AFTER changing any shim to make sure the change produced the correct clearance. Maybe this caused the confusion? Goose sorry about that. I thought I remembered you writing that one should check shims with a micrometer. Maybe it was someone else? I have measured about 100 shims with a dial micrometer. At least 10 percent were off by .01mm and a few by .02mm. This is probably nitpicking on my part. Edited February 2, 2012 by RandyR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh3 Posted February 2, 2012 Share #12 Posted February 2, 2012 When I checked mine a little bit ago, if you checked them say 3 times 2 of the 3 you would get the same reading. Dont know if maybe its oil film, maybe something on the calipers. But its definatly worht double checking that the thickness printed on the shim is what you got. Also on the recheck after installing them. I have had one get just a little cocked when you put on in on an FJ1200. It wont necessarly go anywhere, but boy it will probably reak havock until seated. I allways check to see it is seated correctly. Man would it have been so hard to have a set screw and lock nut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyR Posted February 2, 2012 Share #13 Posted February 2, 2012 When I checked mine a little bit ago, if you checked them say 3 times 2 of the 3 you would get the same reading. Dont know if maybe its oil film, maybe something on the calipers. But its definatly worht double checking that the thickness printed on the shim is what you got. Also on the recheck after installing them. I have had one get just a little cocked when you put on in on an FJ1200. It wont necessarly go anywhere, but boy it will probably reak havock until seated. I allways check to see it is seated correctly. Man would it have been so hard to have a set screw and lock nut? After installing a replacement shim rotate the engine at least 3 times before re-measuring. I expect that shims are more stable than the old set screw method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hig4s Posted February 2, 2012 Share #14 Posted February 2, 2012 I believe they are 25mm shims.. Z1 enterprise has them for under $6 each.. http://www.z1enterprises.com/catalogsearch.aspx careful, the top few listed are not 25mm here is a page that shows all the bikes that use the 25mm shim http://www.sudco.com/25valveshims.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh3 Posted February 2, 2012 Share #15 Posted February 2, 2012 Well for me I'm glad they used them in some dirt bike. Maybe that will work in my favor when I go to do it as the only bike shop close specializes in them. My guy migh have some if I dont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyR Posted February 3, 2012 Share #16 Posted February 3, 2012 I believe they are 25mm shims.. Z1 enterprise has them for under $6 each.. http://www.z1enterprises.com/catalogsearch.aspx careful, the top few listed are not 25mm here is a page that shows all the bikes that use the 25mm shim http://www.sudco.com/25valveshims.html The Sudco list is about 10 years outof date. btw. one can buy Triumph 25mm shims in 0.025mm thickness increments which may allow you to fine tune your clearance better than the Sudco 0.05mm increment shims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hig4s Posted February 3, 2012 Share #17 Posted February 3, 2012 The Sudco list is about 10 years outof date. Possibly, but I don't think any bike that has any engine updates in the last 10 years still uses 25mm shims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbon_One Posted February 3, 2012 Share #18 Posted February 3, 2012 Finished up the valve adjustments on my bike and Ragtop69gs's bike yesterday. While both engines had at least one intake out of specs the rest were OK. We did swap some shims around to get them in the middle thou. All together about 6 shims were either moved or replaced on each bike. Two outright shim replacements for mine & one on Jay's bike that Skydoc's kit didn't have in it. To get those I went to a local dealer who swapped me for the two 270's and two 265's we needed giving him the 275 & 276's that were abundant in the kit. Larry BTW: the actual OD measurement of the shims is .985. On another note micing the shims I found them to be really consistant as to marked thicknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh3 Posted February 4, 2012 Share #19 Posted February 4, 2012 Mine I would say are good. Its more operator error I think. I just picked up the bag the other night and started going thru them real quick. So I know there is some oil in the bag and stuarting the shims. So I thin thats where I'm off from the other night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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