Intermittent charging?

[BJB]

I have an 89 Venture, and replaced the stator last year. I must admit this stator never indicated as high a charging as the old one did. However, these guages are not noted for being really accurate.

However, how is it possible to have the voltmeter indicate less than or equal to 12 volts, for 40 km. I shut the bike down for 1/2 hour. I had barely enough to turn bike over to start and then on return trip it indicates charging ie about 13.5 volts. I even had a short trip 0f 40 km one way, where it indicated 12 or less, and then gradually worked up to over 12 volts after about 30 km. I note that if I put on running lights (2x35 watt) they really knock it down...but for all the above the only electrical items were Cb, radio and cruise control.

 

I thought that the stator either worked or didn't, battery the same. So I am thinking poor conection somewhere (note I did remove conectors when installing new stator and directly soldered), or is it possible the regulator can do this intermittent thing?

 

I am lost on this one. Perhaps some of the electrical gurus have ideas? Thanks.

Edited April 12, 2009 by BJB

[Dano]

You will need a digital voltmeter to read DC volts. Measure at the battery terminals at idle then above 2500 rpms. Stators will not have full output below that. Check the connector for the regulator/rectifier (4 or 5 wire/ 6 pin connector under left side cover). Possible corrosion in there. Check and clean battery terminals. Check all fuses in the block for looseness.

In the service manual is the procedure for checking the reg/rectifier.

 

Good luck,

 

Dan

[Marcarl]

Check your battery connections to make sure they are clean and tight. Maybe just recheck your soldering, to make sure it's not come apart and is sporadically touching. Also there is a large connector with 5 wires that include to large red ones, close to the stator connection that may be a bit of a problem.

[BJB]

I guess what I am looking for is a confirmation that the problem is NOT the stator or battery? My understanding is that either they work...or they don't. There is no grey area where they work sometimes, right?

Checking voltage at the battery terminals with a digital voltmeter will not tell me where the problem is...it will only tell me if the voltage reaching the battery is correct. SO, if the stator is good, then there has to be an intermittent short etc that SOMETIMES acts up. Right? Can the regulator/recitier act this way or is like the stator/battery....it either works or it it toast? If not, then I am looking at a broken wire or poor connection somewhere on the bike.

[Dano]

BJB, that is why I recommended the digital meter for checking the battery. The gauges on the bike cannot be used for measuring exact voltages as you stated. Batteries do tend to go bad slowly, the plates can short or just not accept a charge the way they used to.

That is also why we pointed out the connector coming from the regulator/rectifier. The stator feeds directly into the reg/rectifier and goes out to the charging system through the 6 pin plug. All points in between need to be checked. It is possible for the rectifier to go bad slowly (intermittent charging), but it is neccesary to check all points in between. The digital meter can also be used for checking the reg/rec by ohming out wires. This procedure is outlined in the manual.

One other thing to check for, and it can be a royal pain, is a short in the wiring anywhere period. Shut off all unneeded accesories and try it. You can also try unplugging the fuses for head and tail lights, etc. to see if that changes things. A short will cause the symptoms you are describing.

 

To be honest, I would suspect your battery first. The charging system is working, or you would see a constant discharge on the meter. Did the bike start missing or running badly when you noticed the discharge? I once rode my bike home 125 miles when my stator went out, on battery alone, but when the battery went it wouldn't run for cr*p!

 

Just trying to help you out here.

 

Dan

[BJB]

Thanks for all your replies guys, I appreciate it. OK, to recap, this is a new stator installed a little less than a year ago. At that time, everyone suggested not using the 3 white wire/3white wire connector and soldering direct. I did this. Now to check out the stator, I will have to dig those wires out, remove heatshrink and electrical tape, and unsolder these wires to check the ohm readings. Correct?

I did charge the battery after getting home tonight...it measures 12V or so on my cheap Canadian Tire analog voltmeter. After connecting up battery, and all battery terminals are clean, I cannot see any voltage difference between idle and reving @ 3000+. I know this voltmeter isn't really good, but I can visually see the difference between 12 and 14 volts.

 

I found in the sevice manual the directions for checking out the rectifier/regualtor. I am sorry, but for the life of me I cannot find where to measure these points. I have 3 white wires coming out of rectifier going to stator wires, plus 2 red and 2 black going to a connector box. Can't see where to measure ie d1 or d2 etc. I took all the connectors apart I could find between rectifier and battery. The only one looking suspitious is a main red wire coming off + terminal with the main fuse. The connector is broke a bit, but since everything works I assume it is OK.

 

Bottom line here is I am going to try and find someone with a digital ohmeter/voltmeter and check things out...including undsoldering the stator wires. I think it is the stator and

I find it hard to believe this stator is shot already...only about 12,000km on it. I got it from RMStator. I believe it has a one year warrenty. It could be the battery but surely I woud see 14 volts at terminals @ higher revs? That would prove stator output but battery not accepting no?

Guess this has to wait till monday, unless someone has more ideas. Thanks.

 

Just went to RMStator web site. It says this model RMG080 is a high output stator giving about 20% more power that OEM stator. Not according to my voltage readings, ever. I will have to call them monday also.

Edited April 12, 2009 by BJB

[scotty]

It is possible to have an intermittent stator. There are three windings in the stator and the wires are insulated with a very thin coating. If the coating rubs through the wires will short producing low output when shorted and good when not shorted.

The nasty part is it will still ohm just fine.

Mine acted like that last fall. On removal the windings were visibly burnt.

Just one of many possible failuers.

[rhncue]

I have an 89 Venture, and replaced the stator last year. I must admit this stator never indicated as high a charging as the old one did. However, these guages are not noted for being really accurate.

However, how is it possible to have the voltmeter indicate less than or equal to 12 volts, for 40 km. I shut the bike down for 1/2 hour. I had barely enough to turn bike over to start and then on return trip it indicates charging ie about 13.5 volts. I even had a short trip 0f 40 km one way, where it indicated 12 or less, and then gradually worked up to over 12 volts after about 30 km. I note that if I put on running lights (2x35 watt) they really knock it down...but for all the above the only electrical items were Cb, radio and cruise control.

 

I thought that the stator either worked or didn't, battery the same. So I am thinking poor conection somewhere (note I did remove conectors when installing new stator and directly soldered), or is it possible the regulator can do this intermittent thing?

 

I am lost on this one. Perhaps some of the electrical gurus have ideas? Thanks.

 

That sounds like a bad battery to me. It's not holding a full charge. after running awhile the charge in the battery comes up so you show a higher charging rate. once stopped, this surface charge drops back down. Of coarse, loose and dirty connections will have an affect also.

 

Dick

[mbrood]

I have seen this on a friend's 84... most times it works fine and every once in a while it won't show charge when he starts it and it won't come "up" with increased RPM or driving it. But if he turns it off and then restarts... things are usually back to normal... NEVER had it drop down once running right. Could this be an ignition switch failure or???

[BJB]

OK. Had a few minutes to play with it today. Bought a digital voltmeter and put it on the battery in the bike. Measured 12.36 volts. Started bike up, and voltage dropped to around 11 volts....no matter what rpms I was at. I don't have time to try any thing more right now but this may help someone solve this problem. By the way, had the battery on a 2amp charger for 4 hours last night, and the battery was bubbling but not hot when I quit charging.

By the way has anyone tried this

http://www.rmstator.com/en/index.php?section=technical_ressources and go throught their fault finding pdf file?

[Dano]

Sounds like that battery is shorted. Need to start with a new one first, then troubleshoot. Battery after charge should be higher than 13.5 volts. You may also have a short in the wiring system, but i would not advise disconnecting the battery with the engine running to check your charging system. You could poosibly damage the rectifier/regulator that way.

 

Dan

[frankd]

Yes, stators can be intermittant. I had intermittant charging problems with mine for a couple of years, and when it finally went 100% bad, I found I had 1 grounded phase on the stator. However, it went out when we were in Branson MO. and we drove it home to near Chicago. With one phase out, it would charge a little bit IF I kept the radio off and the RPMs up. in traffic. No problem at 65MPH.

 

Another time my regulator went bad and my charge rate was low but it still charged at higher RPM. When I measured the leads I found that one of the diodes had gone bad. Your bike sounds like your charging system is completely out. Measure the stator leads just like it shows in the manual, and then measure the leads to ground. To ground you should get a high reading or an open circuit. When mine went bad it was a dead ground. If the stator tests good, you may want to try another regulator. They don't go bad often, but mine proved they do sometimes. The 6 diodes in the regulator can be checked by measuring (with your analog meter on ohms (or R X 1) from one of the leads that go to the stator to the battery positive terminal. You should get continuity in 1 direction, an open circuit in the other direction. Repeat between the stator lead and ground....you should see a good diode. Repeat with both of the other stator leads to both the positive lead and ground. There is no easy way to test the regulator portion.

[Dano]

BTW BJB-----

[6m459]

Is this an RMstator you have in service?

 

I briefly had one of those installed two years ago. It failed in the first month of service.

 

It turns out that RMstator resells product from a US manufacturer called electrosport . Long story short, electrosport honoured the warranty on their stator and replaced it no questions asked. It took a month though.

 

To get the bike going again meanwhile, I installed a used OEM stator, bought on Ebay, while the warranty claiim was in play. The used OEM one is still in there and the replacement RMstator unit is still in its box in my parts bin. I'd go OEM from the start if I had it all to do over again. I doubt I'll ever install that electrosport stator. I'd sell it on to someone else but my conscience won't let me.

 

That's my view, hope its of some interest.

 

Cheers,

 

Brian H.

Uxbridge Ont.

[barend]

sounds kind of like what mine was doing today. voltage on the gauge would drop to or slightly below 12 while stopped and idling, but failed to come up with the passing lamps on. Had to turn those puppies off, let the voltage climb back up to the line in the green and then i could turn them back on without (significant) voltage drop. Running light don't seem to affect this curiosity.

 

I'll be taking some readings, see what comes up. Nothing else, I have a brand new stator in the box which I can install.