flyday58

Just curious, do you have the Ignitech TCI? I just learned about this "wasted spark" thing and wonder if the plug firing on the exhaust stroke is catching some unburned gas in that rpm range. Maybe I'm way off, but still wondering...

Thanks AGAIN Neil, this is a great article. And thanks to tvking63, wherever you are! I've actually seen this thread, only the tail end of it. Never went to the beginning. Thanks to MiCarl for the explanation of the "wasted spark" ignition. Learning all kinds of stuff on this forum.

I just did this so I should remember, but not sure. But I think I used the rounded part of a paper clip to seat the new diaphragms. Once they are in correctly they will look stock, any wrinkles means it's not seated all the way round. Think I've got pictures on my home computer but I ain't home till Monday.

Well, that's exactly the info I'd like to know, where did you find it? If it's in the literature that came with the Ignitech, I didn't see it. Would love to see a schematic for the installation. Or is that why two of the wires on the Ignitech side of the harness are jumpered together? Couldn't figure that one out, either. Richard

You should replace that diaphragm, they're tricky but it's one less thing to worry about later. Diaphragms with holes...baaaaad idea.

Think I found the issue but didn't want to comment till I had a chance to ride it for a decent distance. As I said earlier there was no spark when this happens, I verified it. I also unplugged the fuel pump and let it run till it died. Running out of fuel takes a while, sputtering and surging till it quits. This is sudden and total. Plus verified no spark. Anyway, went back over the plugs for the TCI. I missed cleaning one wire, white with a green stripe, pickup coil #3. A lot of corrosion and what looked like dirt and grease mixed in. Green stuff. Cleaned all that off and the bike ran fine. I pulled the wire out and it wouldn't start, shoved it back in and it started. Did this 3 or 4 times with the same results each time: wire out no start, wire in starts. I don't get it. According to the schematic it's just one pickup coil for one cylinder, don't get why the bike won't fire at all. I pulled the other 3 for comparison; it won't fire with the orange or white with red stripe wire pulled but will with the gray wire pulled. Since the gray wire goes to #2 coil for crank rotation sensing for the fuel pump relay, I figured it would be the problem. I'm in TEXAS till Monday so can't do an extended ride till then, but I'm hoping it's fixed. I left Dingy a pm but he must be out of pocket for a while, was hoping he could tell me about the inner workings of the TCI to help me troubleshoot this thing. Didn't see how the Ignitech could be bad but needed info. I'll update once I get a ride in.

Took me FOUR times to get every orifice cleaned in my carbs, which sat under a leaky shed at least 6 years. Well, the bike did. Replaced all the diaphragms for good measure. Lots of help here, really knowledgeable people. Post some pics when you can of your progress.

Welcome back. The fuel pump relay energizes the pump for 3 seconds when you turn the key on, so that's normal. With the engine running the TCI (computer) allows it to pump as needed to keep the float chambers full. The relay only allows 3 seconds of run time without the engine turning to prevent gas pumping all the time unless there's a demand for it. I'll pretty much guarantee the carbs are gonna need a thorough cleaning of all passages and jets, and you should check the diaphragms on the slides closely for tears and holes of any kind. Hopefully you drained any old gas and started with fresh stuff. Richard

After it quit the first time. When I go out in the morning it will start, but it only runs about 5 minutes before quitting. Thought maybe as it heated up internal connections were breaking. Each time I put it in the freezer for 8-10 minutes the bike would fire and run for a couple minutes. Figuring turn about is fair play and proper investigation technique, I heated the TCI up by letting it sit on top of the now-warm engine till it was pretty toasty, but not hot. Now the bike runs and continues to run! Wish to [your chosen deity here] I had an extra TCI to try out. Really can't conceive this one being bad, though. In the downloaded Venture manual modified by Jeff B. (I think. Maybe Dingy?) he added a note on the ops of the various relays saying that a short on the black/white wire will ground out the TCI. I pulled that wire to eliminate it as causal but the bike still quit, so I've ruled out a short on the b/w wire. Guess I'll pull the stator cover tomorrow and poke around in there.

Thanks for the ideas, Neil. Went ahead and replaced the splice. I have good pliers now (Thanks to skydoc_17 for that) so I know the splice is good on the black wire. Was able to get the engine up to temp and checked the pickup coils, got 130, 130, 130, and 126. Across the red/white and black wires I get 13.2v vs 13.8v across the battery. TCI regulating the voltage down to 13.2 maybe? Also get 13.2v on the r/w wire at the #2 spark plug coil. The only way I've been able to get it to run is to put the TCI in the freezer for a few minutes, then it fires back up. I'm down to the Ignitech because I can't find anything else. Has anyone ever had to return one?

Pump is working, carbs are full.Won't run long enough to get up to operating temp. Before the hard failure I did a test to see what the symptoms are for fuel starvation. It starts surging as the fuel runs out and eventually sputters and dies after about a minute and a half. It tries to fire off if you hit the starter but won't run because not enough fuel remains. I checked the ignition with a spare new spark plug, no spark. Battery on charger, 12.5v. So I have power to the TCI, power to the coils, but no spark.

Got hard failure now. Put new points in the fuel pump but had to 'adjust' them to get the pump to work right. Started the bike, ran about 3 minutes then quit. Tried a couple times and it started up again, but only ran about a minute. Kept repeating this, each wait time lasting longer and each run cycle lasting shorter. Last time ran less than 10 seconds then quit and refused to start. So started chasing wires again. Pulled a bunch of wire ends from plugs, cleaned a bunch of crud out of same. I have 12v going into the TCI, 12v coming out to the coils, checked side stand switch and relay, cutout relay, tipover relay, pickup coils, kill switch cleaned, checked all grounds, removed, cleaned and reinstalled the loom ground on the left side of the frame, checked continuity on all these wires mentioned. I pulled the bundle apart and checked the splices I did at the large TCI plug on the gray and the black wires. Figured that HAD to be the problem but no dice. Both have good splices and ohm out good, even when wiggling them. Almost every time it quit I was fooling with the 2 TCI plugs so spent alot of time going over those connections, but never got it to start back up no matter how much I wiggled, yanked and twisted them. So what have I missed? I'm thinking about removing the stator cover since I haven't been in there since I got the bike, but all that stuff checks fine. The ground is good and the coils are between 115 and 120Ω. Is there something on the back of the gauges, or a hidden ground I'm missing? I dearly wish I had a spare TCI to try but I don't. Also I'd be flabbergasted if the new Ignitech unit is bad. Again, when it quits it's like you hit the kill switch, only the starter still turns. One more thing, the last time it quit I had my eye on the tach. I wouldn't swear it dropped to 0 first, but it seemed like it did. Richard

Great description, eh? Thanks!

Did that before bothering everyone. But what detects rotation, the TCI? I'm pretty good with electricity but so much when it comes to p.f.m. boxes like the TCI. Electrons just disappear in and appear elsewhere. Pure flippin magic.

It's a messed-up world we live in when I can't hock my kids for what I've spent on them because they don't have any monetary value. Shucks. :mo money:

Jeff, where would I get the contacts? I don't see a kit on Partzilla where I shop.

Turns out it's the fuel pump. Swapped fuel pump relays and still had the problem, unplugged the pump and it went away. Took the pump apart and found the contact points burned and pitted. Cleaned them up and put it back together. Went for a ride and it quit again. Apparently it's been dying for lack of fuel when the pump quits; cycling the kill switch will bring it back for a short time, which is how I got back home. So it's parked till I can get a replacement pump. Part #s are different for MKIs and MKIIs. Anyone know if either will work? Thanks. Richard

Thanks, will definitely check that, as it seems no matter how many crimpers I buy or where, I can never find the ones we had in the Air Force and my crimps are always so-so. Might have to tin the ends of the wires like Earl does. Richard

Did a little more investigating. When I disconnect the fuel pump relay the system returns to normal. Plug it back in and the lights dim and voltage drops. So I'll start there in the morning. Anyone had a pump go bad?

Part II. Thought I was done with this, apparently not. Put on a NOS regulator and now have new symptoms, plus it quit again today. Jiggled the key while cranking and it fired back up, but couldn't reproduce it. The new problem. Since installing the new fuse block I've had to put the charger on it to get enough volts to start; it will crank but the ignition drops out because the battery gets low. It's a new battery and properly serviced. I think it was Jeff's attachment which said to have the battery load-tested to check for a dead cell, and I haven't done that yet because I have this gremlin points elsewhere. When I turned the key today, the volts indicated around 10v, and of course it wouldn't start. So out comes the charger again, but in messing around and trying different things I hit the kill switch, and the voltage recovered to more than 12v. On and it dropped to around 9, off back to 12. I pulled the windscreen back off because I had been working on the relays in there and thought it was probably tied to one of them. When I pulled the flasher/cutout relay the voltage drop disappeared. I had repaired the brown/white wire female tip on this plug while looking for corrosion and when I removed it from the plug and plugged the relay back in, the problem was gone. So thought I was on the right track,although that wire goes to the flashers. Stuck the wire back in the plug, plugged it up, still no prob, bike fired right up, I HATE intermittent stuff. Rode up and down the block again, never missed a beat. Came back, shut down, turned the key, 10v. Kill switch to kill, 13v. Darny darn. Pulled the flasher/cutout relay, side stand relay, unplugged the TCI, unplugged the regulator, problem won't go away. I think that just leaves the fuel pump relay, fan relay, oil pressure sensor, and the individual coils. I name these because they're all on the red/white wires of the ignition circuit. I'm waiting for COPs from the Vmax forum guy; Neil86 mentioned that the #2 coil sends the signal for the tach. Maybe it's failing with heat, or has an intermittent short causing my voltage drop. Reaching on that one. So looking for suggestions on what else to chase. One last note in this never-ending post: while sitting there idling the lights would all dim momentarily for a split second, but very noticeable. The voltmeter also dropped when this happened. Did it over and over, then quit for a bit, then started again. Starting to get depressing!

The picture upload icon works, just make sure your pics are smaller than 2mb or the upload will fail and not tell you why. That's been my experience. The icon is the middle one in the last bar. Richard

I did the gear position switch change when I bought a 41R harness by mistake for my '83. Don't have any problems, but I haven't been into the motor either, so haven't swapped shift drums. Richard

I'm hip. By the way, if you update your profile with your bike(s) we'll all have a better visualization of what you're up to. Plus we're all super nosy!!

Be interested to know how it goes. At some point I'll have to tear down mine so will be looking for all the 'gotchas', shortcuts and best practices. Post plenty pics!

My money is on the lower red arrow, it looks more like an alignment mark. And it's closer to the shape of the balance shaft marks. Looking at cranks on ebay where you can see marks, the one like your lower red arrow is there, but the other mark is different on all of them. I'm sure someone will check in with the definitive answer, maybe even a piccy. Richard