Patch

Good day Luv my shoulder is keeping me up so I thought I’d put together my thoughts on how to resolve the issues. “So here's the deal. No matter how I set the pilot circuits, I always either have a lot of popping on deceleration or sluggish throttle response off idle. Right now i'm getting both. She pops like crazy on decel and takes forever to warm up. Once warm, the throttle response is good. She's also developed a lope at idle. An intermittent "miss". I haven't investigated the miss as yet. “ So here’s the deal, you can not properly tune the CV carbs under these parameters. When I read Carls post I could see what he was thinking and I agree, she is pumping unburnt fuel into the collector. In part because of the crazing however the bigger picture is she is choked with carbon and as mentioned the carbon is keeping the combustion temp down even though the compression is high! The reasons for this ise as stated in my earlier post. Here is somethings to remember moving forward, it is because you took the compression you have already begun to turn this around. If the compression had been taken long ago when the carbs were misbehaving, you, the forum could have reached a corrective decision long ago. I believe you need to decarbonize the cylinders. There are risks you should know up front. I assume the 1200 is also a standard 170 psi you are between 180 low & 190 high. This is not a Seafoam in the tank fix. You could try a 50/50 mix but I doubt it? It’s easy and cheap if you want to, get 2 cans and give it a try. Below is how I would attempt it. You will need to cool the engine with a fan or 2 both blowing across the rad - we don’t want to melt her down! You’ll need to find the sweet spot with the rpm as the pistons will need pressure, guessing between 15 and 1800 rpm. With the odd twist of the throttle. Keep your eye on the temp gauge keeping it below the red area is all you need concern over. Blow it out with compress air and a rag around the nozzle to catch any debris. Then retest The risks: well you might end up below standard or the high ones might end up lower then the low ones now. This is due to the abrasive nature of the carbon and it rubbing on the walls! Again this is firsthand experience. But I have had them level very close, within couple of pis more often than not but with use of more aggressive chem's! We can’t put back the ware! I wrote up a carb check list if you want but, it's possible your rebuild corrected the issue? This says a lot right: :"My last tank ran 39.5 MPG as close as I can figure by filling to the same level in the neck visually. Up till now I'd been getting 33-35 mpg and before the carb rebuild I was getting 28-29 mpg." PS:\ that's a 50/50 bypass the tank, container to the pump

Yep quite the learning curve. They can be sensitive to balance when any one component is incorrectly set, kind of like chasing your tail. After the 5th or 6th time around the bike its time to reach out. So we can put this one in the win column for you, have a safe season. Patch

Seems to me that they are not saying something? So building a new state of the art plant. Wonderful! Why can't this new plant handle EU sales? Tariffs are temporary, the add potential jobs both now and well into the future matter.

Well Chaharly you are right. Lets brake it down: Luv mentioned engine seems to not get warm or warm slowly. Idle circuit prefers heat and so do the plugs. Some things have changed while others have stayed the same: Lift, duration and stroke unchanged Volume - what do you think Chaharley? Compression is up through build up of carbon covering the combustion chamber and piston top. Carbon insulates. Heat transfers of 40 plus % through piston rings, usually higher. This heat then dispersed through water jackets. Same for head combustion area. Valves are not suppose to be insulated so the cool by exhaust on one side and fresh air/fuel the other Carbon can glow in spots which cause pre ignition. If carbon builds past piston edge it becomes abrasive to the cylinders, and clogs the ring landings. Carbon crazing on plugs cause misfires.

So fill some time in while Luv checks his specs. Who knows the consequences of the high compression, assuming standard is 170 pis? Visualize what is going on- in or on? Or what causes the compression to rise? When we expect compression to weaken with ware?

OK Luv;) So your tests read high and this is going to present a challenge. Not having them right in front of me I remember pairs of 190. Why do you think they are up so high? I think I know. The 1300 limits at 192. Look at the 1st pic what is different about it? After see the numbers 1st I would deal with that, but move away from setting pilot with vacuum _ we know they are going to be different. The vacuum will also mislead when you jump over to the next circuit because of drag (another conversation) use a tach. Let me know after you look up the compression specs if you want to try and lower psi

Not well known bikes. True pigs on fuel. Fast! 6 speed if I recall. Very reliable. Was just talking about them earlier this week.

So Luv I'm not hearing crisp acceleration. Not impressed by the plugs. I'm not sure how you are trying to adjust, pilot screw by vacuum, although I think I get what you are saying, vacuum is a result of jug and throttle plate position. 1st thing we need to know compression numbers. The idle circuit needs the compression for heat. can you put together an unclolorful list of all changes to the carbs. Are there any vacuum leaks at the intakes, you read how I check.. When checking is there ever any back pressure up the intake. even though you have mentioned popping at the carbs. What checks did you do to the coasting enrichment circuit times 4?

I've been kicking this around much of the day.. Not sure why we haven't asked yet? (likely Carl's fault tho) What is the voltage at the coils? need house voltage to compare Now seems obvious we would like to do a gap test for the secondaries, right? But I got to think about your ride, and wondered if the plugs are bridging to much air? Know what I mean... So have a look if you will because weak coils have little reserve and can miss even with a hot plug. Blue & Video, not sure if there is a question attached to the 5 verses 10? But might be best to start a thread and not distract from OP..

Puc. But like I said my paperback is for the 1300

For the record the gen 1.5, page 7-38 the caps are 10 ohm +/- 10% Not sure for the 1200?

" A pop from idle to say 2500 would keep creeping to say 3500" That is surging Of course there can be more than one reason, three come to mind at the moment, air, un metered gas, and linkage. For the throttle return, I would first check the cable rooting and the throttle for binding through its rotation. Could be that it was removed and incorrectly installed or have dirt and other restrictions. They might be old or ill fitting knockoffs?

Hi Bongo, Not sure how this ties to surging unless we (in general) have a different interpretation of the term. For the sniffer, here's my problem with to days shortcuts of tuning. 1st we know we need to know what the high pressure is per jug so, we can understand what to expect from the fuel circuit. These days we seem ready to tare down carbs which is pretty technical, expecting that by doing so we somehow have bonded to the bike thus correcting all things within. I know you know that CV carbs need solid constant low pressure to work as expected. But what if the bike has been sitting around for x years? That's 4 piston on a V. Also springs have been compressed for usually the same amount of time, and those that have been, the seats have been exposed! Now there's lots of us that know exactly what I am getting at. We know what we need for efficient combustion which might not be 14:1. So if we don't know the bench marks as is - verses what we expect then we can't tune from our keyboards any better then they can tune from what ever tools the OPs are using! I am fortunate because and there's a story about me kicking around which I'll skip past; that I have an ear and a feel for combustion. I don't always get it right and can't claim I get it better than others but, I do get it pretty close. I stick to basics and, I spoiled myself by investing in a Vac Mate! I have become so use to using this tool I can almost see it playing out before hooking it up, it has really refined my carb circuit trouble shooting across rpm ranges. So here's something, above OP mentions 1050 and lets say you and I might tune or sync at 1200. Lets keep in mind air pressure's and resistance to flows. Now if we aren't looking for a problem and we are running touring bikes, where do we need or want the best "overall" performance? We know because we have many thousands of miles in touring saddles. We need passing power, we need engine braking, we need range, inertia and momentum to not get knock back flying past or opposing truck traffic. So what if we because we run touring bikes tune and sync for that scale. My point is that tools that tune low down for regs don't really tune, they pass a test. I really should stop here but, without compression numbers how do we troubleshoot tuning problems? well just an opinion

Not sure what temperature they were at when tested? Anyways, these are just part of a check list, but the ing. coils are 34 years old and likely they have lost there ability to charge quick enough. They too need to be hot to get an good idea

[quote=.45Cole;1042273 "Mine hesitated and then surged, running better and giving better response once revs were up, " First congratulations on your first sync! Just focused on the above, this is the 2nd time you mention surging. If you are experiencing surging when the engine is warm/hot, and - it isn't throttle cable related. Let us know and we can help you pin that issue down. If she tends to surge I wouldn't take it out riding. Patch

Nope! Puc, when wee use dynamics it is to bridge known or unknown potentials; meaning that we are looking deeper into... Somewhere I wrote recently when leaned in and down and, when we run out of throttle twist to hold the line: what really we or I am saying is, the curve was unknown and misjudged, meaning, wish I was 1 more down. So which brake will we choose? On these bikes I will if properly position touch my rear in a steadying way ( I'll say again I'd rather bleed speed, hold the line via throttle) Linked the rear begins her drag and shakes the looseness out, but we still have lots of role inertia up front this is where the linked smaller cal starts to have it's effect. Lets for now increase the fun ahead: coming out of the above twist instead of throttling to lift then gear up one; my eye see 8% grade with a left and to finish with a right twist. Lets forget for a moment that I know road rash all to well and assume, the road is all mine and no obstructions. What is my next strategy, go up 1 to get some wheel speed or put more speed on my crank? Same question: am I riding a bike on 2 wheels or a power plant on 2 wheels? Every long ride I have had with my gen 1.5 has been influence by height, suspension, wind-Then I pick my level of aggressive approach. I know that I am corning a touring bike. Time has proven to me that I can rely, on my linked brakes for much of whats ahead then squeeze - after I have the bike stretch out which is what the link system can do. No one is discounting the braking power up front. But unlike stunting at low speed or without twists the 2 don't compare! Also I won't usually sit out rain; my new Metz were very good but it erked me to see the Mich's handle the curves in deeper puddles surer footed. Stand each side by side you'll see why.. I had no problems with brakes wet or dry.

It is good news that you are able to get back to riding. Just think how well you know the systems now. Certainly not wasted time..

The correct process is to ALWAYS start with a compression test - when setting CV carbs. Then you bench sync if they are off the bike. If not then you quick sink - then you tune match to each jug by rpm, then if you are looking to exceed this, by heat at the exhaust port. Then dial it richer by 1/4 turn. Now you are ready for final sync. Patch

I think this thread has as expect, fogged what the dynamics of motorcycling braking is calculated for in the design and intended use? Even with all the engineering and money Yam had to address sport feel and feedback for gen2, they still managed to not satisfy everyone. This must tell or at the very least suggest that mods without math are dangerous. Hoping that inexperienced Venture riders 1st put some miles on the bikes before associating past feed backs to these bigger heavier touring bikes which are designed, to not feel like cafe sport rides. Quick unexpected stops: change hand position from throttling grip, extend fingers, eye scan and process, squeeze front lever, push back by stiffening arms, squeeze lower bike body like your ****ting out a high rise, reach for and engage incorrect height adjustment on rear peddle.... Seems to me there has to be a better way. Dynamics here's some: jackknife (not something you ever want twice in your life) another one: Steering stem load : 1/2 the contact patch :reduced if any avoidance steering That's just the obvious stuff. Engage the peddle and manage the unexpected intrusion by bleeding off speed using the linked system, as you reach for and add more braking power to the front wheel while reducing steering loads, lowering CG because of rear brake forces which also nearly eliminating G force rotation around the stem. Why anybody would want to lockup the rear while steering 1200lbs all the while crushing the front geometry, is startling to me. Your bike your way but.. Patch

I got bits of post 172 Anyways shows that not fully resolving problems that creep up, just leads to more problems.

Well very much Bongo. This certainly temps the shortcut leading to reinstalling the plastics; not hard to understand that point of view. What would drive me crazy is not knowing why, or where I might be the next time, should it re happen.

I had some time tonight without distraction so I refreshed and studied up. I completely missed the above post, sorry. So I am stuck on this because, when I was shown troubleshooting it was drilled into me to stay focused and, to not skip over a suspect. Prove it good, bad or, tie it in! Also Steamer I think it a plus that you dug that info up for us, proves how you are really in the game! With the above quote we see that there exist a common thread. So logic tells Bongo and I although I am more of a wrench type guy, we and certainly me, can not look past the tip switch at coils that have power but aren't firing! Not wanting to make this too long some background: Measuring the voltage at the coils is before igniter/cont module and is voltage to the primary positive side, so we expect battery voltage! Then the coil is grounded (completing the circuit) through the igniter to ground: that is the igniter part of the control module. The same module has other duties and the one that has at least me stumped is - logic says that if the safety emergency/tip switch opens the circuit, the "igniter" can not path to ground! If it can as is now the case (engine running), then the tip switch position must have changed?! So if you disconnected the tip then the engine should not fire. If it does then the igniter safety circuit is fried, and will fail permanently soonish. Let me make some sense of what I'm trying to say. In at least two cases we know 21ohms has been measured on running bikes. We also see now that 61 ohms produced fail starts and no run or intermittent problems! Also we see that the new to you switch is reading 61 ohms at least after shipping; that to me isn't that hard to believe. What we don't know is as the book says, when tipped to 50* does it read 0000 you didn't mention that it was tested at angle. Because the bike is running those of us that have had to chase intermittent troubles.... Shouldn't find it hard to ask that a new reading of the installed tip is in order. Listen, there's a lot of harness and connectors to go through that may not need all that testing??? As for the igniter/control module, above he changed "both" and cured the problem, perhaps in his case that was necessary. I can't and don't know why with the info we have now, that the igniter is bad?! Conclusion form here 12.3 key on at coils, things are working correctly, maybe only at the moment. 13V engine running at the coils seems good to me. If you have a little less that's old wiring, if you are around 10V while output is 12 or 13 ish then its an old corroded - wire, circuit or connector and really not a hard fix! I hope this helps clear up some of what must seem like black magic but really its just about staying focused. Patch

Hey Steamer True what flyinfool suggests about a possible bad connection. for one it can and often will, reduce current (current being the heat or amps) or in this case measured voltage. Meaning when checking for 12V and you read 10ish there is usually heat from that resistance. For example a warm wire can show signs of discoloration or shrinking with ripples or connector may have some corrosion and be warm on one side or be loose enough that heat will expand the female and break or reduce contact, then cool and work fine. For the moment and in my reasoning, I believe the control module is functioning because the bike is firing! That module receives the signal from the pickup coil then switchs via ground. Is the engine light off? The tip switch prevents the above from happening by opening or closing a path designers choice. It does not provide voltage to the coils. If you have alligator clips for your tester, would you please keep the red to positive side of coil and black to negative side of battery. Then cycle your switches- key, kill wiring connections for side stand. Keep an eye on the reading it needs to stay near battery voltage 12ish keep going unless it drops then check battery voltage and compare. After those are done move on and repeat but with the harness bundle. I would also open the bar housing for the kill and starter switch, give all that a good close look over, see any signs of discoloring or grime build up. Might as well give it a spay shot of cleaning fluid while its exposed. If per chance you find any voltage drop, then note the area, again measure the battery voltage and compare because that could be a win for us. Keep a sharp eye on the meeter I still don't understand the ohms reading for the tip....hmm I don't see any reason for concern at the moment for the solenoid, it's real just a big single purpose relay operated switch. Its about amperage. At the end and if I forget toooo, you will need to freshen your oil as the fuel will have rendered it worthless

Ok I just saw you tested the tip and the same reading, nice to see the voltage up but makes us wonder why? So I need to think a bit because there must be a common that I am missing. The tip should stop the switch of the coils and other things but not the voltage drop. So red test lead to coil, black lead to battery or ground,,,,hmmm