WAC1972 Posted June 7, 2011 Share #1 Posted June 7, 2011 This is a long story: I want to start by saying that I have been getting worse and worse MPG's lately. I used to get about 42mpg and am now down to about 30. I have changed plugs,oil,filters and have done a carb sync at idle and at higher rpm's. I have also tried ethonal free gas and nothing seems to help. Okay, yesterday I changed the fuel filter although it probably didn't need it. Today I started my bike with no problem and rode it to work without any issues.(15 miles) I came out of work this evening and when I walked up to my bike I could smell gas. I pulled out the choke and turned the key. I could hear the fuel pump trying to get gas but it kept running and my yellow light that usually lights up during the fuel pump prime wouldn't come on. I pressed the starter and the bike wouldn't start and the bike acted like the battery was dead. I tried this 3 times and got the same thing each time. Just for the heck of it I turned the petcock to reserve and tried again. The fuel pump sucked up the gas and the bike started right up. My first reaction was that I was leaking gas and was almost out. I drove to the closest gas station and while doing so I slid the petcock to on while riding. Within a minute the bike was starving for fuel so back to reserve I went.The bike smoothed out. When I got to the gas station and filled up I was amazed when it only took a little less than 3 gallons which would mean that I wasn't any where near reserve. Once the bike was filled I put the petcock back to the on position and the bike started right up and ran fine all the way home.(15 miles). However my wife just told me that the garage smells like gas....Any ideas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tx2sturgis Posted June 7, 2011 Share #2 Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) Open the oil filler cap and take a good whiff. Smell gas? Not good. Also...look at the oil level sight glass with the bike level. Edited June 7, 2011 by tx2sturgis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAC1972 Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share #3 Posted June 7, 2011 I pulled the oil filler and smelled. I don't smell gas but it does seem like the oil level is a bit higher than when I looked at it just a few days ago. What are you thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flb_78 Posted June 7, 2011 Share #4 Posted June 7, 2011 You'll smell more gas in the hotter months because the gas is evaporating out of your tank. That's fairly normal. You may want to drain your tank and remove the petcock and make sure there's nothing plugging up the valve. As for fuel mileage, if you can get your hands on some BG 44K, it'll clean the carbs as you ride. It made a difference in my bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAC1972 Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted June 7, 2011 I got up this morning and pulled the fuel line off the petcock. Fuel runs well on both On and Resevre settings. I put key in and fuel pump worked normal and bike started right up. I let the bike run for awhile and all seems good. Hmmmm! Could it have been vapor lock? It was in the mid 90's yesterday but it's been that warm for a couple of weeks now. I put a little Seafoam in just in case I've got dirt somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick97spirit Posted June 7, 2011 Share #6 Posted June 7, 2011 I put a little Seafoam in just in case I've got dirt somewhere. I'm not sure how much a little is so I'll just say that I'd pour a minimum of 1/2 of a bottle in and run it around the block to make sure you've gotten it into the system then let it sit over night. Originally sounded like a pet cock problem. Also, it's hard to tell if enough fuel is being delivered when looking at the flow. The engine under labor may not be getting enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7Goose Posted June 7, 2011 Share #7 Posted June 7, 2011 I have no idea what kind of bike you have, how old it is, how many miles, or how long you have owned it - all of that information would be necessary to give you any good information. Based on the little bit you have told us, the fuel starvation could simply be clogged screens on the petcock inside the tank. The smell of gas could be high float levels, poor line connection to the new fuel filter, stuck float/leaking needle valve, etc. etc. Your declining fuel mileage could be lots of things, but most common would be a dead cylinder. Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 7, 2011 Share #8 Posted June 7, 2011 Drive a while with gas cap off if your tank is low (gas) Mine did this a few years ago and come to find out that my vent in my gas cap was totaly glogged with rust but I could drive a while and then the bike would starve for fuel then die. goose is correct that you need to give more info though. my post is just another thought for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TearlessTom Posted June 8, 2011 Share #9 Posted June 8, 2011 My vote is on a bad vaccumn on the petcock if it has one or just a bad petcock period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAC1972 Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share #10 Posted June 8, 2011 My bike is a 1996 RSTC with about 30,000 miles. I have had it about 4 years. I changed the fuel filter again today mostly to make sure I hadn't pinched any lines. I have been turning the fuel off when I am not riding ever since this occured two days ago. When I turn the fuel back on and do my initial start I get a normal fuel pump sound and bike fires right up. If I turn the bike off and restart, the fuel pump wants to run for about 10 seconds. The bike will restart. My initial problem occured when I had let the bike sit for about 10 hours between starts. I have not let the bike sit for any length of time without the fuel turned off since then. Could the fuel pump be getting weak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7Goose Posted June 8, 2011 Share #11 Posted June 8, 2011 Well, everything certainly points to fuel flow, but you know that from the beginning. And you proved it by turning the petcock to reserve and it ran. Knowing that you have some history with this bike means that the recent smell of fuel is probably something actually different instead of just the first time that you happened to notice it. As for the fuel pump - it could be weak, or it could be having a hard time getting gas; it certainly should NOT be making noise right after the bike is turned off and back on. And if it is running for 10 seconds or so, then I don't think it is shutting off from full carb bowls, just from the normal time limit if you don't have any gas (or it is shut off). Either the gas is just being pushed through the carbs, which is doubtful or you would have seen it by now, or the fuel is having a hard time getting to the pump. My bet is still on the petcock screens inside the tank. Next, I would focus the fuel pump. I wouldn't mess with anything else until you get it working so that there is no fuel pump action after the key is shut off and then back on. Then let it sit overnight and see if the pump is STILL quiet when you turn the key on - that will verify that the carbs are holding fuel and keeping the pressure up. Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAC1972 Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share #12 Posted June 9, 2011 Thanks Goose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAC1972 Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share #13 Posted June 12, 2011 Today I messed around a little on the bike today. I started with fuel flow out of the petcock. (Good) Then I moved to fuel flow to the input of the filter.(good) Fuel flow out of the filter.(Good) Fuel flow into the fuel pump. (Good). Fuel flow out of the pump.(Sporadic pulsing with fuel pump clicking with key on) Fuel hose at carb.(no fuel). Checked short hose from pump to carb and no blockage). This is all with the key on ,fuel pump clicking but not with the bike running. When I hook everything up the fuel pump does a continuous click for about 10 seconds and then stops. The bike will start and seems to be running alright. This is where I get confused. If it is the fuel pump that is bad (which is what I believe) why does the bike run with a bad fuel pump? Gravity? My next question if it is the fuel pump can I use a non OEM pump like I've seen on other posts on this site. I am going to put a different set of carbs on tomorrow just to continue my trouble shoot.. What do you guys think....Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmxndad Posted June 12, 2011 Share #14 Posted June 12, 2011 My bike is prone to the gas smell in the garage. I run the highest grade premium gas I can get and that almost totally eliminates it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB-1 Posted June 12, 2011 Share #15 Posted June 12, 2011 Today I messed around a little on the bike today. I started with fuel flow out of the petcock. (Good) Then I moved to fuel flow to the input of the filter.(good) Fuel flow out of the filter.(Good) Fuel flow into the fuel pump. (Good). Fuel flow out of the pump.(Sporadic pulsing with fuel pump clicking with key on) Fuel hose at carb.(no fuel). Checked short hose from pump to carb and no blockage). This is all with the key on ,fuel pump clicking but not with the bike running. When I hook everything up the fuel pump does a continuous click for about 10 seconds and then stops. The bike will start and seems to be running alright. This is where I get confused. If it is the fuel pump that is bad (which is what I believe) why does the bike run with a bad fuel pump? Gravity? My next question if it is the fuel pump can I use a non OEM pump like I've seen on other posts on this site. I am going to put a different set of carbs on tomorrow just to continue my trouble shoot.. What do you guys think....Bob The bike can run on gravity fuel feed if you bypass the fuel pump. This is good to get you home or to the dealer but of little use to you now. The fuel pumps will run for around 10-seconds when the key and kill switch are first turned on. At this point the pump is apparently on a timer. The pump will be continuously energized, and hopefully running, when the engine is running or cranking. These pumps use two solenoid coils to actuate a plunger in a push-pull fashion to pump fuel. The coils are energized/de-energized by plunger activated contacts on the end of the pump. You can remove a screw and pull the end cover off the pump and see the contacts. Pump operation can become intermittent as the contacts wear. The vibration of the bike actually helps the contacts make electrical connection once the contacts become worn. This also makes diagnosing an intermittent pump more fun. Yes, you can use an aftermarket fuel pump. Mr. Gasket model #42S works great and costs less than $50 at most auto-parts stores. You will also need a 90 and a 45 degree brass fittings and a barbed hose fitting to screw into the end of the pump. You may also need a foot of fuel hose and barbed union to mate the fuel line from the filter to the pump input. These pumps are made for an in-line screw in filter, but that will not be needed. You'll also need a couple of butt-splices for the wiring. I just did this to my bike last week. Here's a link to a post made by "Ponch" that has nice photos. These photos were invaluable to me: http://venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?p=381479&highlight=fuel+pump#post381479 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAC1972 Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share #16 Posted June 12, 2011 Thanks OB-1. I still am confused though. The fuel pump goes through the 10 seconds and the bike will start. Once started I have been able to ride. My commute is about 20 miles and I have had no issues once the bike has started. I have not bypassed the pump and the bike runs okay. It is when I am starting the bike that my fuel pump runs long.I can start the bike and turn it off and restart it and the pump goes through the 10 second thing again. It used to click once or twice and now it is continuous until it times out. This just became an issue the other day. Do you think it is the pump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeeze Posted June 12, 2011 Share #17 Posted June 12, 2011 There's teh Fuel Pump Relay which is a Safety Device. It allows to Pump to operate for 5 to 10 Seconds once you turn the Key on. After that, it starts pumping again only if the Flywheel is turned be the Starter Motor or the Motor runs, because the FPR uses the Ignition Signal to determine weather the Motor is running or not. So, in other Words, if you want to try to check the Fuel Pump for longer Time, you need to energize it with flying Wires(12Volt). Or turn the constantly on and off, or push the Starter Button and let the Crank turn 2 or 3 Times each Burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB-1 Posted June 12, 2011 Share #18 Posted June 12, 2011 Thanks OB-1. I still am confused though. The fuel pump goes through the 10 seconds and the bike will start. Once started I have been able to ride. My commute is about 20 miles and I have had no issues once the bike has started. I have not bypassed the pump and the bike runs okay. It is when I am starting the bike that my fuel pump runs long.I can start the bike and turn it off and restart it and the pump goes through the 10 second thing again. It used to click once or twice and now it is continuous until it times out. This just became an issue the other day. Do you think it is the pump? Long distance troubleshooting isn't an exact science, but based upon what you've said, the problem sounds like lack of fuel flow. What doesn't add up is the gas smell. I don't see how you could have an over-powering gas smell without a leak or without flooding the engine to the extreme. An intermittent fuel pump could cause all your symptoms except the gas smell. I just realized that your bike isn't and RSV, so I don't know if where you can mount the Mr Gasket fuel pump. On an RSV, the fuel pump is accessed by pulling the left side cover under the riders seat. I don't know where the fuel pump is located on the RSTC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAC1972 Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share #19 Posted June 12, 2011 Gas smell...I haven't had the gas smell since the first night but I have also shut off the petcock since then whenever I am not riding..The fuel pump on the RSTC is right behind the left side cove held on with 2 bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted June 12, 2011 Share #20 Posted June 12, 2011 Let me throw in my 2 cents, I'm a new member here, but have been riding quite some time and belong to the Concours Owners Group and the Volusia Riders Forum. As far as the gas smell and the no start situation, I would say that (since you said you had left the petcock on before this happened) one of the carbs fuel inlet needle valves had stuck open and overflowed the bowl, then gas leaked into the cylinder. Now when a cylinder has raw gas in it, the engine will not crank over because the starter motor is not any where near strong enough to compress liquid gasoline, thus the engine did not turn over and it seem as if the battery was dead. This condition is called hydrolock. With these bikes it is very important to remember to shut off the fuel petcock every time one shuts off the engine. I hope this answer has shed some light on your problem. I'm really enjoying this site and my "new to me" 1999 RSV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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