No Fuel Injection on the RSV??!!

[DarkWolf]

So now I learn that an RSV has no fuel injection as well as ABS. Wherever I go, the rave seems to be fuel injection! ABS is debated. Sometimes it seems to me that those who don't like ABS are those who are selling non-ABS bikes, but I could be wrong. I might be able to live with non-ABS, but fuel injection is always highly regarded when I read about it. However...I note that some on here ARE GLAD that the RSV does not have fuel injection. I am not a mechanic. So I don't know fuel injection from fuel rejection. I think it has something to do with not having a normal carburetor. I heard someone say that fuel injection is a wonderful thing to have when you have a bike that goes up the Himalayas. But I am not sure what it means or why people are happy with it or not. Can someone enlighten me here and tell me why I should be overjoyed that the RSV does not have fuel injection? Does this mean I will actually be able to fix something?

[Eck]

 

I am not a mechanic. So I don't know fuel injection from fuel rejection. I think it has something to do with not having a normal carburetor.

 

 

The primary functional difference between carburetors and fuel injection is that fuel injection atomizes the fuel by forcibly pumping it through a small nozzle under high pressure, while a carburetor relies on the vacuum created by intake air rushing through it to add the fuel to the airstream.

The fuel injector is only a nozzle and a valve: the power to inject the fuel comes from farther back in the fuel supply, from a pump or a pressure container.

Either way, the Venture runs well with out it.

[pegscraper]

FI is great for people who don't know how to work on anything nor operate a choke. They can just push a button and go. But injectors clog easily, and electronic parts can go bad at any time with no notice at all. FI is great... until it breaks. Then it's mega bucks to fix. With a minimum of general maintenance, carbs will run forever. Gas stabilizer in the winter is all they need for years at a time. Having carbs also means you can still easily modify your bike for more performance.

[royalstarjac]

They reason FI is good for "riding up the Himalayas" is because the computer control automatically adjusts air/fuel mixture using an O2 sensor. Less O2 at high alititude means you either need more air or less fuel to keep from running rich. Carbs must be mannually adjusted. I have never heard of anyone having a problem with the roads in N. America.

 

Not sure but I think the highest paved rd in N America is around 10k ft.-Jack

 

Actually, it's just over 14k ft.

http://www.johncletheroe.org/usa_can/scenroad/m_evans.htm

[Phaedrus]

Carbs have been around since the first internal combustion engines. Fuel injection has only been common for about 30 years. Carbs are a very low tech way of mixing the fuel with the air to make a combustible mixture to burn in the engine. You will find carbs on more bikes than you will fuel injection, mostly because fuel injection is more expensive. Virtually all small engines like lawn equipment, use carbs due to cost. The reason manufacturers are moving to fuel injection is the EPA and CARB (California Air Resources Board, which is really anti-carb) regulations.

 

As far as fuel economy, carbs can be very competitive with fuel injection, but are generally a bit worse. Carbs can be worked on by your average low tech shade tree mechanic. Fuel injection on the other hand requires more specialized knowledge and equipment.

 

As far as operating the bike, the modern fuel injection systems will make it very simple. There is no choke to worry about when it is cold. Just start the bike and go.

 

So, in summary, if you can pay a bit more and have others work on your bike get fuel injection. You will get a cleaner running bike with a simple to operate, if not simple to fix, fuel system.

 

If you want to save a buck, don't mind useing the choke when it is cold outside, or like to fix your own bike, go with the carbs.

 

If I liked the looks, ride and handling and other features of a bike, I would not let carbs vs. fuel injection question keep me from buying it one way or the other.

[FreezyRider]

FI is great for people who don't know how to work on anything nor operate a choke. They can just push a button and go. But injectors clog easily, and electronic parts can go bad at any time with no notice at all. FI is great... until it breaks. Then it's mega bucks to fix. With a minimum of general maintenance, carbs will run forever. Gas stabilizer in the winter is all they need for years at a time. Having carbs also means you can still easily modify your bike for more performance.

 

 

Lynn.....

 

I have to disagree with you. You're still a good guy, but I disagree. I grew up in the mid 60's and have owned dozens (literally) of carbureted vehicles of every size, model, make, and type imaginable. I also have turned wrenches ever since I was old enough to hold one. Basically done everything except transmission rebuilding. Engine overhauls to electrical troubleshooting to carb overhaul/repair. And it is my opinion that EFI is the 2nd best thing to happen to vehicle design in my lifetime....the best being electronic ignition. Since I started buying cars/trucks equipped with EFI, I have never experience one single glitch. Yeah, if I do it will be more expensive to have it fixed than fixing a carbureted engine...IF I have someone else do it. And that is the key. Those who say it is more expensive to fix EFI than to maintain a carbed engine say that only because they don't know how to fix an EFI system. Over the lifespan of a vehicle, I maintain that EFI is cheaper......it gives better fuel mileage than a comparable carbureted engine, it requires less maintenance, etc. You say that injectors plug easily....not so in my own experience. All it takes is a simple routine maintenance program of changing filters as specified and using decent fuel. Oh, yeah......add a can of SeaFoam once in awhile (which most bikers I know do anyway). And cleaning an injector is much easier IMO than pulling apart a carb to clean out a plugged passageway.

 

Just my opinions....yours are valued also. (It's just that yours are WRONG!) :rotf::rotf:

[FreezyRider]

 

If I liked the looks, ride and handling and other features of a bike, I would not let carbs vs. fuel injection question keep me from buying it one way or the other.

 

 

And regardless of what I said in my previous post.....I do agree with this statement. EFI would not be the determining factor for me....only a plus. Notice that I ride a 94 Gold Wing....not equipped with EFI. Wish it was.

[skidrow]

12,000 Ft At Trail Ridge Co. And Venture Carbs Work Well At That Alt.

[Squeeze]

Lynn.....

 

Respectfully, i have to disagree with you. You're still a good guy, but I disagree. I grew up in the early 70's and have owned a dozen (literally) of carbureted vehicles of every size, model, make, and type imaginable. I also have turned wrenches ever since I was old enough to hold one. Basically done everything. Engine overhauls to electrical troubleshooting to carb overhaul/repair. And it is my opinion that EFI is the 2nd best thing to happen to vehicle design in my lifetime....the best being electronic ignition. Since I started buying cars/trucks equipped with EFI, I have never experience one single glitch. Those who say it is more expensive to fix EFI than to maintain a carbed engine say that only because they don't know how to fix an EFI system. Over the lifespan of a vehicle, I maintain that EFI is cheaper......it gives better fuel mileage than a comparable carbureted engine, it requires less maintenance, etc. You say that injectors plug easily....not so in my own experience. All it takes is a simple routine maintenance program of changing filters as specified and using decent fuel. Cleaning an Injector is much easier IMO than pulling apart a carb to clean out a plugged passageway.

 

Just my opinions....yours are valued also. (It's just that yours are WRONG!) :rotf::rotf:

 

 

FreezyRider, sorry to steal most of your Quote, but i just don't see why i should type the same Statement in other Words.

 

As i'm currently in the Process of building my own EFI these Days, i can sincerly assure you, that a EFI is way easier to maintain and if a Problem occures, it's also easier to fix. Thats with today Computers and today Technology. Not to forget, that i expect a 10 hp Gain and 8 Percent less Consuption on my Max dued to this Upgrade. And this is, proven more than a dozen Times, no Dream, but the Plain Truth.

 

Biggest Difference versus Carbs is, you need other Tools ... a DMM and a Fuel Pressure measuring Device is all you need to check any basic Functions of the Sensors and the Computer.

 

And, sincerly, the Price the Manufacturers quote for a EFI Bike is pure Capitalsm. If you only look only the mechanic Parts of the EFI System, they can be made for less than a Tenth of the Price of only one Carb.

 

And for not so cheap Parts ... remember the Price of a Diaphragmn ??? Or what Time of Labour you need to correct the Floater Level on a 1Gen Carb Set ?? The 2Gen Carbs are easier to clean and maintain and mostly won't need to be splitted.

[KiteSquid]

I wish the RSV had EFI and ABS.

 

EFI generaly requires less maintance than a carberator. better fuel economy, and more HP from the same cam, crank, and psitons.

 

Also EFI will correct for altutide changes, and changes you make to the intake or exhaust tracts.

 

I hope that the EFI RSV that will come in a few years comes with cylinder by Cyinder engine management, true variable valve events and fly by wire, but I am asking for the moon....

 

Just give me the non-detuned Vmax prototype motor!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hig4s]

The one thing no one has mentioned, is that many FI systems bring on the power harsh and quickly. In a car with an automatic you don't notice it, but in a vehicle with a manual clutch it is there. Most it is barely noticeable. On some machines can make taking of from a stop a jerky thing. My 6-speed manual Acura TL is one that it is very noticeable. Nine of my last ten cars had manual transmissions, four of them were FI and I stalled my TL trying to take off smoothly more times in my first three months with it than all the times together on the other eight. I have test ridden many FI bikes and not one was a smooth and easy to take off with as my RSV, but none were bad enough to even consider avoiding them. Personally carb or FI I would perfer FI, but it is not that big a deal. Matter of fact, I've yet to own an FI bike because no one has put FI on a bike I liked everything else. But is was a close call for me between the RSV and the BMW K1200LT. It had both FI and ABS. As much as I love my RSV, if I won a lottery, I'd probably put an LT in the garage too.

[BuddyRich]

You cannot push start a bike with FI if it has a dead battery. On the other hand Carbs don't need power to supply fuel to the engine to start.

[Squeeze]

You cannot push start a bike with FI if it has a dead battery. On the other hand Carbs don't need power to supply fuel to the engine to start.

 

Wrong ... a Friends Vmax was a 1500 with EFI, used for R&D Purpose, he has some Issues with his Alarm System, we had to push start it several Times until we got this damned chinese Alarm Thing straightend out. There was no Light coming on when he turned the Key. But when pushed the Bike, it started immediately.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I wish the RSV had EFI and ABS.

 

EFI generaly requires less maintance than a carberator. better fuel economy, and more HP from the same cam, crank, and psitons.

 

Also EFI will correct for altutide changes, and changes you make to the intake or exhaust tracts.

 

I hope that the EFI RSV that will come in a few years comes with cylinder by Cyinder engine management, true variable valve events and fly by wire, but I am asking for the moon....

 

Just give me the non-detuned Vmax prototype motor!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

______________________________________________________________

 

Just jumping in here....

 

Some EFI systems can compensate for changes in the air/fuel ratio, such as when you change the intake or exhaust, but other systems require the ECM to be re-mapped.

 

Someone mentioned a drivablity issue with FI...again, it all depends on how the system is 'tuned'...some systems are not as 'twitchy' in the way they respond to throttle inputs.

 

I like EFI in general, but this has been observed before...when they have problems, it can sure be a headache.

 

 

 

 

[CrazyHorse]

Plus no diaphrams to worry bout at 60 bucks a piece of air leaks/pin holes etc dont have to mess with mixtures. You can modify performance with chips some of which are adjustable. Give me fuel injection any day.

[davecb]

Just my 2 cents worth, but do you really want to pay the price fpr FI and ABS. Here is a motorcycle that is fairly well equiped, runs extremely well, and as far as I know, rarely breaks down. All at a price thousands of dollars cheaper than the "competition"//// Don't fix it if it ain't broke.....

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Wrong ... a Friends Vmax was a 1500 with EFI, used for R&D Purpose, he has some Issues with his Alarm System, we had to push start it several Times until we got this damned chinese Alarm Thing straightend out. There was no Light coming on when he turned the Key. But when pushed the Bike, it started immediately.

 

 

I'm guessing the fuel system was still pressurized, and there was enuff 'juice' in the battery to fire the ignition system and the injectors. If the battery is completely dead, and the fuel system has depressurized...it is damn hard to push start a fuel injected bike.

[Squeeze]

I'm guessing the fuel system was still pressurized, and there was enuff 'juice' in the battery to fire the ignition system and the injectors. If the battery is completely dead, and the fuel system has depressurized...it is damn hard to push start a fuel injected bike.

 

I think there was some Energy left, but only some, the Control Lights did not light up when he turned the Key. We pushed it for about 60 Meters and it a bit downwards on the Street Angle.

[Leland]

While carburetors may be "low tech", these are are not your typical lawnmower variety carbs, but constant-velocity (CV) version. They automatically adjust the venturi size to meet engine demand which contributes to the smoothness. And since it's the vacuum on the diaphram that controls the fuel, they automatically compensate for altitude. As stated previously, these bikes run just fine at 12,000 ft.

 

Having said this, FI is the future and it will be welcomed.

[Squeeze]

..... And since it's the vacuum on the diaphram that controls the fuel, they automatically compensate for altitude. ....

 

 

Sorry, but there isn't a Way to compensate the lower Oxygen on higher Altitudes with CV-Carbs. The Amount of Air is controlled, yes, but since there is less Oxygen in the Air in higher Levels, the Power suffers, because the Air/Fuel Ratio goes into more rich Condition.

 

The Bikes my run good in higher Altitude, but this just shows that there is a too lean Condition on lower Altitude.

[Leland]

Sorry, but there isn't a Way to compensate the lower Oxygen on higher Altitudes with CV-Carbs. The Amount of Air is controlled, yes, but since there is less Oxygen in the Air in higher Levels, the Power suffers, because the Air/Fuel Ratio goes into more rich Condition.

 

The Bikes my run good in higher Altitude, but this just shows that there is a too lean Condition on lower Altitude.

 

Every fuel fired machine (motorcycle, car, boiler) suffers power loss at higher elevations (approximately 4% per 1000'). The CV carb's throttle cable is connected to the butterfly valve which controls vacuum in the carburetor throat. Because you have less vacuum at higher elevation due to less atmospheric pressure, the slide won't lift as high, resulting in less gas induced. Not as accurate as FI, but it does work.

[Squeeze]

Every fuel fired machine (motorcycle, car, boiler) suffers power loss at higher elevations (approximately 4% per 1000'). The CV carb's throttle cable is connected to the butterfly valve which controls vacuum in the carburetor throat. Because you have less vacuum at higher elevation due to less atmospheric pressure, the slide won't lift as high, resulting in less gas induced. Not as accurate as FI, but it does work.

 

So, in other Words you say ....

 

thinner Air (regarding less Oxygen) lifts the Sliders not as much as thicker Air ??