Anti-chirp oil, but what consequences?

[Beau Geste]

All the conventional wisdom says DON'T use so-called 'energy conserving' synthetics in motorcycles, because they contain additives that increae lubricity (love that word!) so much that wet clutches can slip

 

Well, I decided to ignore that bit of wisdom, and exchanged the bike's Yamalube for 3.7 US quarts of Mobil-1 Extended Service 5W-30. Here's what I've got so far...

 

My bike, with original clutch basket, had always been a pretty loud chirper in 3rd and 4th gear, right in the seet spot of the torque curve on both ratios, and I was trying to get reconciled to dealing with it. Figured I'd try this experiment, though, before putting her to bed for the winter.

After the oil change, the chirp/'cricket"/whine has been reduced dramatically, almost to the point that I can only hear it if I reaaaaaly listen for it. Shifting effort has reduced as well, very light touch on the heel/toe to notch the ratios up or down. Absolutely no transition clunk now. And for the life of me I can't discern any weirdness that might indicate the dreaded 'clutch slip' associated with using an energy-conserving oil...but here's the rub. Is ther any chance that there's some kind of undetectable-in-normal-crusing degradation taking place in the tranny?

 

I've put about 500mi on the RSDT since the change two weeks ago, and I sure like the way she's sounding and shifting now...would hate to give that up, es[peciially no longer having to grit my teeh to consciously ignore the bloody straight-cut gear while in around-town prowling.

 

Any thoughts/advice appreciated. I guess the bottom line here is if I can't *feel* any clutch slip, is there anything really to worry about anyway?

 

Now that the autumn weather here in New England is starting to get a bit chancy, I may not be able to give my next experiment a try until spring, but was planning to make the next lube change to Mobil1 5W-40 Turbo Diesel lube that supposedly doens't include any of the extrea-slippery agents... just to see if my crickets/howling monkeys come back.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Wow. VEAWY INTEWESTING!

 

I'd think you could detect clutch slippage...if it was there. But maybe it has made some kind of improvement. I guess time will tell.

[skydoc_17]

Hey Beau,

I applaud you efforts to solve the noise, tranny shifting problems you have been having.

The few times I have heard of clutch slippage problems with the "Eco-friendly" motor oils is during extended in town driving where the engine temp. rises into the upper range and during high ambient temperatures. Since you tried your experiment pretty late in the riding season for us Northern folks, (day time temps. not over 60F usually) you may want to keep a close eye on that clutch come spring time when the Temps. will get much hotter. I have seen more than one bike run the "Eco-friendly" oils and never have a problem and I have also seen more than one bike run the same oil and slip like a school girl on a icy sidewalk. I personally think that clutch spring pressure plays a part in this, but have not been able to study the clutch spring pressure affect to be able to say that this is an absolute fact. (I'm still compiling data on this) I suggest you continue to monitor this change in the way you lube your engine and tranny and if it proves to be a "fix" for the whine and hard shifting then I congratulate you on your courage to "think outside the box" to solve a difficult problem.

Earl

[BuddyRich]

Hey Earl, Your repeating yourself again..

[skydoc_17]

Hey Buddy,

I'm not sure what happened there, It must be the echo, echo, echo,!

Earl

[Beau Geste]

Thanks, Skydoc, I was thinking about making a Barnett SR-2 clutch spring upgrade a part of this winter's wrenching (motto : if you can't ride it, at least you can tweak it). If the lubrication cuts the whine, and the increased engagement pressure backs me away from the edge of a clutch-slp issue, I'll be a happy ambler.

 

Of course,I guess I could just swap the clutch basket, but I hear that's not a necessarily sure-fire fix to the chirp...and anyway, why not try something a bit different? Of course, this may just be a retread of an approach that a lot of other folks have already taken...and if so, I'd really appreciate any guidance from the wise ones.

[FreezyRider]

Beau,

 

One of our members (Snarley Bill) who lives in Missouri has run nothing but the energy saving oils in his "harem" of bikes for years. Never had a problem. He has about 5 bikes right now, everything from a ZX-14 Kaw to a Gold Wing.

Maybe he'll chime in and verify, but it sure looks like the fear of energy conserving oils might be overdone. Maybe, like Earl says, it is more related to weak or borderline clutch spring pressures.

 

Congratulations! Keep an eye (or ear) on the situation and give us updates once in awhile.

 

Joe

[Tatonka]

Hi Y'all,

 

I know my 82 Virago XV920 has a clutch problem with motor oils with additives since the clutch shares the motor oil, but I thought the Royal Stars use DOT 4 for the clutch. I had to remind my mechanic that he needed to change the fluid for the clutch on the 98 RSTC because he said the 98 doesn't have a separate cylinder.

 

I actually thought the chirping was from the splines on the final drive according to other posts here. Am I missing something? I would like to add a RSTD or RSV to my stable.

 

Next big trip planned is Nova Scotia to Alaska.

[Grisolm1]

Just a comment.. in my Guzzi's w/o roller lifters newer energy conserving oils are a BIG no no. These newer car oils have none of the moly additive to protect the cams and lifters. Yammy V4 doesn't have roller lifters either, 99% of cars do have roller lifters now.

[skydoc_17]

I would like to address Tatonka's question about the use of Dot 4 Brake fluid in the RSV and RSTD and the origin of the whine or chirp that comes from these bikes.

All of the RSV's and RSTD's have a master cylinder on the handle bars that is filled with brake fluid. squeezing the clutch lever compresses the fluid in the master cylinder which in turn activates a slave cylinder located on the left side of the bike. Both of these bikes are of the "Wet Clutch " type and the ENGINE OIL lubes the clutch plates. So, yes brake fluid is used in the system that engages and disengages the clutch and motor oil is used to lube the clutch plates inside the engine. Now, as to the origin of the whine or chirp, the transmission uses strait cut gears which are, by nature noisier that bevel cut gears. These gears are cheaper to produce from a manufacturing standpoint and are stronger, and noisier. I have heard noise from the lack of lube on the splines of the final drive and drive shaft but this is an entirely different noise. So, you have two different parts of the drive train, making two different noises, for two different reasons. The former being an issue with design and the latter being a lack of maintenance.

I hope this sheds some light on this subject.

Earl

[hig4s]

All the conventional wisdom says DON'T use so-called 'energy conserving' synthetics in motorcycles, because they contain additives that increae lubricity (love that word!) so much that wet clutches can slip

 

Ummm, I have had issues making a clutch slip using energy conserving auto oil,, back on an older Yamaha 750, and I would not recommend using energy conserving auto oil in any wet clutch motorcycle, but that does not mean you will have problems. Of course the stock clutch springs on a Royal Star are know for being week and slipping earlier than many other bikes anyway, this is a concern to me.

 

I switched to Mobil 1 Motorcycle oil and my whine was greatly reduced. If you are avoiding the motorcycle oil because of price, Mobil 1 does make an auto oil that is not energy conserving. You use to be able to tell because it had a red cap, they have done away with the red cap so you have to look on the back of the bottle now. I have used the non energy conserving Mobil 1 auto oil on several bikes before the Venture with no problems ever.

 

I switched to the motorcycle oil when I got the Venture more because I figured if I could afford a new Venture I could afford the better oil, not because I ever had any problems with other non evergy conserving oils I had used.

[Tatonka]

I would like to address Tatonka's question about the use of Dot 4 Brake fluid in the RSV and RSTD and the origin of the whine or chirp that comes from these bikes.

All of the RSV's and RSTD's have a master cylinder on the handle bars that is filled with brake fluid. squeezing the clutch lever compresses the fluid in the master cylinder which in turn activates a slave cylinder located on the left side of the bike. Both of these bikes are of the "Wet Clutch " type and the ENGINE OIL lubes the clutch plates. So, yes brake fluid is used in the system that engages and disengages the clutch and motor oil is used to lube the clutch plates inside the engine. Now, as to the origin of the whine or chirp, the transmission uses strait cut gears which are, by nature noisier that bevel cut gears. These gears are cheaper to produce from a manufacturing standpoint and are stronger, and noisier. I have heard noise from the lack of lube on the splines of the final drive and drive shaft but this is an entirely different noise. So, you have two different parts of the drive train, making two different noises, for two different reasons. The former being an issue with design and the latter being a lack of maintenance.

I hope this sheds some light on this subject.

Earl

 

Thanks a lot Earl. I certainly appreciate the clarification and it is a good one. I'm hard on clutches anyway, so I'll just watch the oil.

I just had my rear tire replaced in September and I had them grease the splines which took care of the slight whine I had picked up over the 16,600 miles I used the rear tire.

The only other whine is from me when I put the bikes in storage and head back to Germany.

Thanks again.