Fuel Feed Problems part III "Resolved"

[Seaking]

Ok so now everything is back to normal.. (I'm posting this in case someone out there has the same rare occurrance as I had.. and that this may help them in the future.. )

 

Initial problem was that I ran out of fuel while still carrying the reserve amount.. This happened twice in a 2 week period. Petcock set to ON and the bike stuttered with 2 fuel bars showing.. switched to RES on the petcock and the bike died.. poof. When subsequently fueling up, it's discovered that the bike still had a reserve amount of fuel.. It would not feed from the RES position on the petcock (yes, it was indeed in correct position as per etc)

 

There was no F on the ODO nor was there the amber low fuel warning light.. just the stutter of the engine indicating a low fuel issue but the bike would not feed from the reserve fuel in the tank when the petcock was on RES.

 

Testing at home showed that the fuel would drain from the petcock from the ON position and when the flow stopped, it would indeed resume when petcock set to RES position, just as it should.. but didn't when I ran out of fuel twice on the road.. So this problem did not make sense. When the tank was drained from the petcock, the F on the ODO nor the amber fuel light came on.. huh. Ok something is not working.

 

A few calls to service dept yielded such things as witchcraft and pulling stumps out with a wet herring.. No idea what they were talking about.. I doubt they knew either.

 

What caused the problem? Well guesses are that sludge might have blocked the RES port on the petcock, preventing the fuel from flowing to the engine. But when I pulled the petcock off the tank, the standpipes on the petcocks were clean as a whistle and the inside of the tank showed no signs of dirt or sludge.. So ok, the petcock is working as advertised up to this point. The VENT tube at the top of the tank is cleared and passing air so that's not blocked causing a vacuum.

 

The Fuel meter on the dashboard indicates proper fuel levels and shows it full and decreasing as you put miles on the bike.. So the float is working..

 

I changed the fuel filter on spec. On examining the fuel filter, it was as it should be after a year of use.. nothing dramatic or un-normal about it.. I had disconnected the battery at this time as I had other electrical work to fix on the stereo under the main fairing..

 

I pulled the tank off the bike to change the spark plugs and at that time, 'swished' the tank with clean fuel and drained it.. upside down and sideways, listening to hear anything bopping around loose in there but all was good.

 

When the bike was put back together again, with 10 litres of fuel added to the tank, and ignition turned on, the fuel pump could be heard ticking away filling up the bowls and lines and the bike's engine fired up as it should.. Fuel levels were showing on the gauge and the bike was put away for the evening.

 

This morning, with a jerry can strapped to the back seat of the bike, I set off to test if I would get proper function of the fuel system or a repeat of the last time.

 

And at two bars showing on the fuel gauge, the F on the ODO showed up and 3 or 4 miles later the low fuel amber light came on, just as it was supposed to. And I added just over 16 litres of fuel into the tank, JUST as it should.. so everything is back to normal.. A subsequent fuel run gave me the same results.. seems I can now rely again on the low fuel indicating system..

 

But the big question is what the heck happened to cause the problem in the first place?! I basically ran out of fuel as I was unable to feed from the reserve fuel in the tank..

 

Here's what I'm guessing and let me know if any of this makes sense or not..

 

(A) there was sludge in the tank but it got 'swished' out and now all is good..

 

(B) the fuel filter was probably actually dirtier than I had thought and replacing it fixed the problem..

 

© or more interestingly, perhaps the bike's fuel management computer pooped out a while back and was reset when I disconnected the battery.. In other words, a set condition was met when the fuel float got down to a certain level, failing to activate the pump or signaling the system that the bike is actually dry and not having any reserve fuel.. or something like that..

 

The reason I mention © is that the stereo system on the bike was giving me probs all spring long where as the bars had to be turned to the right in order to make any channel changes, though the volume works all the time.. I pulled the fairing to find the cable going from the hand controller on the left bar was trapped under a bundle around the steering neck and when the bars were to the left, applied a weird pressure on the cable causing it to not work.. go figure.. Once I released that cable to the top of the bundle, the control unit works perfectly.. ... And also to mention that on a recent road trip, the Cruise Control would sometimes deactivate when hitting a large bump..

 

Perhaps there was something electrical causing all this BS in the first place and all I needed to do was reset 'something' by disconnecting the battery?!

 

Anyway.. if anyone ever finds themselves in this kind of situation, drop me a line.. I've been through it.. Hopefully I might be able to save you some time in trouble shooting.

 

Thanks to all who submitted helpful suggestions..

 

Cheers

[RedRider]

I've been following your troubles and travails. Glad it is working for you now.

 

RR

[Wanderer]

I was having all kinds of problems with my audio and other electrics. Sleeperhawk and I pulled the fairing and pulled apart all the connections and added dielectric grease to all and all works fine now.

 

Appears to be a common problem.

[Seaking]

I was having all kinds of problems with my audio and other electrics. Sleeperhawk and I pulled the fairing and pulled apart all the connections and added dielectric grease to all and all works fine now.

 

Appears to be a common problem.

 

Yep.. in my case, the bundle of cables coming from around the left side of the neck side cover to around the front of the neck were being crushed with you turned the bars to the LEFT... this sounds contradictory to what it should be but if you have a look with the fairing off it will make sense.. strange though, almost as if you were pinching off a water hose, impeding the flow of electrons through the wires lol..

 

Glad you go yours fixed today.. what sucked today is that I rode out of FM radio range and my Nano iPod was out of battery juice LOL. so ALL that fer nuttin hehehe

[Shamue]

I would rule out © because the fuel would be gravity fed to the carbs and the reserve gas drained during your initial test. My best guess would be the fuel filter and the liquid gas weight in the tank was heavy enough to push / force fuel through the filter with the assistance of the fuel pump. As the weight of the fuel decreased the weight of the fuel may not have been sufficient enough for the fuel pump to suck the fuel through a dirty filter. I have had this type of issue with a fuel injected vehicle where the tank was full but no fuel through the filter to the engine. Took the outlet hose of the filter and fuel would pass through, but hooking up to the engine / engine would not get gas. Found out many of these filters expecially MC filters are very fine screens / mesh / fiber and it takes very little dirt to stop one up even though the filter looks clean to the eye. Wish you would have done a test with the filter completly out and run the bike, that is how i discovered my problem with the vehicle... replaced filter and on the rode again. Glad your on the rode now, not sure if this helps but....??

[Seaking]

I would rule out © because the fuel would be gravity fed to the carbs and the reserve gas drained during your initial test. My best guess would be the fuel filter and the liquid gas weight in the tank was heavy enough to push / force fuel through the filter with the assistance of the fuel pump. As the weight of the fuel decreased the weight of the fuel may not have been sufficient enough for the fuel pump to suck the fuel through a dirty filter. I have had this type of issue with a fuel injected vehicle where the tank was full but no fuel through the filter to the engine. Took the outlet hose of the filter and fuel would pass through, but hooking up to the engine / engine would not get gas. Found out many of these filters expecially MC filters are very fine screens / mesh / fiber and it takes very little dirt to stop one up even though the filter looks clean to the eye. Wish you would have done a test with the filter completly out and run the bike, that is how i discovered my problem with the vehicle... replaced filter and on the rode again. Glad your on the rode now, not sure if this helps but....??

 

Well ya know, that might well make sense.. I can believe that..

 

However it still doesn't explain about the lack of the F or low fuel amber light.. except perhaps the bike starved JUST before reaching that point.. ya know? Hmm how about that..

 

Now where were YOU when all this started? lol Mind you, whom ever designed the location of the fuel filter should be shot and quartered.. my gosh man, what did they do? Suspend the filter by a string and THEN built a bike around it?! Big hands are not good for that filter.

 

Thanks to all for the assist and guidance.. MUCH appreciated..

[BoomerCPO]

Glad to hear the scoot is back in running condition again. Altho it is a PITA I change my fuel filter every 2nd oil change....and I carry a spare fuel filter on the scoot as well. Being NEW does not always mean the darn thing will work as designed.

 

Boomer......who makes sure the fuel filter is installed in the right direction too.....sigh.

[RedRider]

my gosh man, what did they do? Suspend the filter by a string and THEN built a bike around it?!

 

That's the funniest description of the fuel filter location I have heard.

 

It is in a nasty location. Several folks here have just bypasses the OEM filter and added an in-line filter in a location someone with hands bigger than an 8 year old carpet weaver can reach.

 

RR

[Seaking]

That's the funniest description of the fuel filter location I have heard.

 

It is in a nasty location. Several folks here have just bypasses the OEM filter and added an in-line filter in a location someone with hands bigger than an 8 year old carpet weaver can reach.RR

 

THAT is my next project when I get the chance.. relocating the filter.. shouldn't be TOOOOOOOOO hard..

 

I'm a retired Air Force mechanic and building aircraft around parts is a common practice.. Can't fix it? Use a hammer.. still didn't fix it? Get a bigger hammer.. still not fixed? screw it.

[Seaking]

Glad to hear the scoot is back in running condition again. Altho it is a PITA I change my fuel filter every 2nd oil change....and I carry a spare fuel filter on the scoot as well. Being NEW does not always mean the darn thing will work as designed.

 

Boomer......who makes sure the fuel filter is installed in the right direction too.....sigh.

 

hahah no worries, I'm glad it only goes the way it went out as I would never have been able to pull it out otherwise.. man what a nasty location!!

[BJB]

Just had to reply to this thread today, as I had a similar experience. Was travelling with the fuel petcock to 'on'. At 275 km (about 165 miles) the low fuel light came on and the fuel counter started counting up. From past experience, I know that I might as well switch petcodk to 'res' because I will run out in 2 to 10 km anyway. Well, lo and behold, after switching, I started missing, bogging down, etc etc. Kept switching the fuel petcock back and forth but eventually ran out of fuel within about 5 km from my destination. I coasted to a stop, and turned everything off. Checked fuel petcock again! Tried to start it, finally gave it choke, and voila it started. Drove it to gas station and filled up and it took only 18.3 litres or at least 4 litres or close to 1 gallon of fuel left.

 

No idea what caused this, but I did notice my radio/Cb unit was giving me trouble about the same time. This is an intermittent problem, and have found that if I shut the bike off (turn key off for about 20 sec) and restart that the radio/db unit will start working again. Again I have no idea if they are related but it did happen about the same time. Incidentally, I left the fuel on 'res' and really stepped up the speed with a bit of head/side wind. Fuel light came on this time at 230 km (big difference) but I did not run out of gas after putting about 25 km extra. Go figure.

 

Hopefully, someone will come up with a fix for this problem.

[Seaking]

Just had to reply to this thread today, as I had a similar experience. Was travelling with the fuel petcock to 'on'. At 275 km (about 165 miles) the low fuel light came on and the fuel counter started counting up. From past experience, I know that I might as well switch petcodk to 'res' because I will run out in 2 to 10 km anyway. Well, lo and behold, after switching, I started missing, bogging down, etc etc. Kept switching the fuel petcock back and forth but eventually ran out of fuel within about 5 km from my destination. I coasted to a stop, and turned everything off. Checked fuel petcock again! Tried to start it, finally gave it choke, and voila it started. Drove it to gas station and filled up and it took only 18.3 litres or at least 4 litres or close to 1 gallon of fuel left.

 

No idea what caused this, but I did notice my radio/Cb unit was giving me trouble about the same time. This is an intermittent problem, and have found that if I shut the bike off (turn key off for about 20 sec) and restart that the radio/db unit will start working again. Again I have no idea if they are related but it did happen about the same time. Incidentally, I left the fuel on 'res' and really stepped up the speed with a bit of head/side wind. Fuel light came on this time at 230 km (big difference) but I did not run out of gas after putting about 25 km extra. Go figure.

 

Hopefully, someone will come up with a fix for this problem.

 

Het there in Speedy River.. I used to live in Moosejaw of all places..

 

The audio problem might seem weird and intermittent right now but if it persists, check the cabling as it comes from the handle bar unit down through and around the front of your neck.. Mine was basically 'choked' off and squeezed that hard by other cabling and hoses in that area that it ceased working all together.. Once I rerouted the audio cable so it wasn't squeezed anymore, its been working perfect since..

 

As much as possible I don't push my fuel limits down if I can help it.. every once in a while I'll test it where I know I'm within a few miles of a gas station.. and it's relatively constant now after I had changed my fuel filter..

[Eddie Fulmer]

I've always left my bike on reserve. I reset the trip meter and watch the fuel gauge. Just a thought. I had a 1988 ford truck that I ran for years and neither gauge worked for the 2 fuel tanks. I just reset the trip meter at every fill up and I never ran out of fuel.

 

It seems to me that if you always draw your fuel from the bottom of the tank you shouldn't have any buildup of gunk down there.

[N3FOL]

Glad to hear the scoot is back in running condition again. Altho it is a PITA I change my fuel filter every 2nd oil change....and I carry a spare fuel filter on the scoot as well. Being NEW does not always mean the darn thing will work as designed.

 

Boomer......who makes sure the fuel filter is installed in the right direction too.....sigh.

 

I would think that a Fuel Filter should last longer than 2 Oil changes. For my peace of mind, I may go ahead and replace my fuel filter once a year or 12K miles.