dragerman Posted May 12, 2009 Share #1 Posted May 12, 2009 From what I’ve read on clutch and clutch slippage has left me with a couple questions. I'd like to do the spring upgrade but am now thinking of doing the plates as well, so-o-o... 1) Where and what do I ask for when ordering/upgrading my clutch springs? I believe I will also need a new gasket... anything else? Torque values? 2) I understand the friction thing but doesn’t switching from a half plate to a full plate decrease the pounds per square inch on the contact surface by distributing the pressure over a larger surface area?? Pressure vrs friction??? What are the advantages or disadvantages of the larger plates? Perhaps I'm just over thinking this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7Goose Posted May 12, 2009 Share #2 Posted May 12, 2009 You are certainly free to spend your money on anything you like, and new clutch fiction plates are certainly not gonna hurt a thing, no matter how much they are not needed. But you might want to consider a few things to make sure you understand the issue before you spend. First, I have installed a number of PCW Racing clutch spring upgrade kits, generally with about 45,000 miles on the bikes. I have measured the friction plates in all but one, and in every case the stock plates still measured exactly as new. In fact, they are usually just a tad THICKER than the one new plate you get with the kit; I attribute that to the fact the new plate had not been soaked in oil yet. My point is, at 45,000 miles I have not yet detected ANY wear on stock clutch friction plates in an RSV. The wave washer with the half-sized friction plate on the bottom of the stack acts something like a second and very weak clutch spring, taking up a little of the slack in the plates sooner as the clutch is let out and preventing that half-plate from touching as quickly as the others. This causes the clutch to begin engaging weakly (and slipping) a little sooner as you let it off, reducing the likelihood of a jerky engagement if poor clutch control is exhibited by the rider. I like to imagine that Yamahaha designed that specifically for the typical pantie-waist American rider! By replacing these with a single full-size friction plate, the clutch engagement is a tad more positive. I imagined I could just maybe feel a difference when I first upgraded my 05, but frankly, the difference is so minor that when you figure that you also just installed a stronger clutch spring, there is no way to tell for sure if it changes the feel. The most positive impact of a full-size plate instead of the half-size one is more surface area for the clutch, which should make it last marginally longer. Of course, the stronger spring will have more impact on that than anything else. All you need to do is call PCW Racing at 518-346-7203 and tell them you want the spring upgrade kit for a Royal Star Venture; it will have everything you need, including instructions with the torque specs. They will suggest you consider replacing all the friction plates too (since it means a bigger sale for them and some people want it anyway), but they won't pressure you to buy them. That is still completely your choice. The only other thing you need to make sure of before you start the job is that you have an inch-lb torque wrench (or metric torque wrench in the equivalent range). You CANNOT do this job correctly with only a foot-pound torque wrench. A ball-end allen wrench will make getting to the cover bolts behind the pipe much easier. Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Terror Posted May 12, 2009 Share #3 Posted May 12, 2009 Ah Kent you beat me to it!!! PCW is the best. If you look in the tech section you will see the write up I did and you will see what Kent said about replacing the half disc with a full disk. It will give you a much tighter hold and the stronger spring helps alot too. In addition to that PCW uses the original design as opposed to the Barrnet which is lots of money but changes to a different type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragerman Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share #4 Posted May 12, 2009 Thanks for the quick reply. I’ve experienced some slippage in high gear when I throttle it so it’s something I need to look at. I’m also wondering if it may have to do with using the dino Rotella 15w 40. It’s good oil but perhaps it’s not the best for this application (I don’t want to stat a war here just thinking out loud). I’ve talked with John down at PCW (thanks for the info) and will be ordering the spring upgrade. I may also consider other options for oil. Great write-up in the tech section! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7Goose Posted May 12, 2009 Share #5 Posted May 12, 2009 Thanks for the quick reply. I’ve experienced some slippage in high gear when I throttle it so it’s something I need to look at. I’m also wondering if it may have to do with using the dino Rotella 15w 40. It’s good oil but perhaps it’s not the best for this application (I don’t want to stat a war here just thinking out loud). I’ve talked with John down at PCW (thanks for the info) and will be ordering the spring upgrade. I may also consider other options for oil. Great write-up in the tech section! That is the oil I use. Although they do not pay to have it JASO-MA certified (after all, it is marketed primarily for commercial trucks, not motorcycles!), Shell states it does meet all JASO-MA requirements. You won't have any more slippage problems after you install the spring upgrade. Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRider Posted May 12, 2009 Share #6 Posted May 12, 2009 If you check on the PCW website, the Gen 2 spring upgrade is in the 'Specials' section for $50. If I hadn't just done mine with the standard OEM spring over the winter, I would buy it. Hmmm... I still may. BTW, I changed back from synthetic to dino oil hoping it will help with the clutch life. However, I expect the trouble I have been having is completely due to the weak OEM spring. RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragerman Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted May 12, 2009 If you check on the PCW website, the Gen 2 spring upgrade is in the 'Specials' section for $50. If I hadn't just done mine with the standard OEM spring over the winter, I would buy it. Hmmm... I still may. BTW, I changed back from synthetic to dino oil hoping it will help with the clutch life. However, I expect the trouble I have been having is completely due to the weak OEM spring. RR Yes $50 is the price for the spring only, the complete kit with the gasket is $75.35... mine will be shipped tomorrow. I must say that so far I really like the way they have treated me as a customer!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7Goose Posted May 12, 2009 Share #8 Posted May 12, 2009 This note is for everyone who has not yet installed an upgraded clutch spring in their 2nd gen - Just do it! I've said this before, but seems like as good a time and place as any to repeat it: If you have an RSV or RSTD and expect to put more than 20,000 miles on it, you really should just go ahead and upgrade that poor stock clutch spring. Why wait for it to start slipping on ya? It will. The upgrade is cheap and takes way less than an hour to install. Do it now and you know the clutch plates are not worn, and you will never have a slipping problem. Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuthDaddy17 Posted May 12, 2009 Share #9 Posted May 12, 2009 Goose helped me replace mine in the 01 RSV and fixed the problem completely! I am going to do this on my RSTD but will probably wait until warranty runs out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragerman Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share #10 Posted May 12, 2009 This note is for everyone who has not yet installed an upgraded clutch spring in their 2nd gen - Just do it! I've said this before, but seems like as good a time and place as any to repeat it: If you have an RSV or RSTD and expect to put more than 20,000 miles on it, you really should just go ahead and upgrade that poor stock clutch spring. Why wit for it to start slipping on ya? It will. The upgrade is cheap and takes way less than an hour to install. Do it now and you know the clutch plates are not worn, and you will never have a slipping problem. Goose Hey Goose you’re exactly right, in fact I just got off the phone with a Yamaha service tech and he suggested the same. He did say that he could look at the clutch under warranty but at best would only be able to replace the clutch spring... and that would be with the same thing that’s in there now so I figured there’s no point in doing that. Also, I’m at 23,000 miles which also coincides with your comments... so I agree, this is a no brainer and money well spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeperhawk Posted May 12, 2009 Share #11 Posted May 12, 2009 Yeppers, already replaced mine around the 20000 mile mark. The hardest thing to do is cleaning the service where the old gasket likes to stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7Goose Posted May 12, 2009 Share #12 Posted May 12, 2009 They don't all start slipping that soon; my 05 didn't start it until around 40,000 miles. But that is why I recommended 20K as a guide. Some folks just let their bikes sit and rot, but for the real riders, it really doesn't make any sense to wait for the slipping to start when it can be prevented by just doing now exactly the same thing you will have to do when it starts! Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flb_78 Posted May 13, 2009 Share #13 Posted May 13, 2009 I replaced my friction discs, but my clutch had been slipping for about year before I was tired of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRider Posted May 13, 2009 Share #14 Posted May 13, 2009 For those that have not been in the clutch before, it is something that can be done without draining the oil (assuming you haven't overfilled). Just put it on the sidestand and go at it. Unless it takes a while to clean the gasket surface, you could be in and out in well under an hour. Just don't stand the bike up with the clutch cover off. Don't ask me how I know. My oldest boy knows this too - now. He also learned how to clean oil off a concrete floor. RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvester Posted May 20, 2011 Share #15 Posted May 20, 2011 I just ordered one for a friend that I will install. Just got the spring kit and one disc and gasket. His bike has Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilvrT Posted May 20, 2011 Share #16 Posted May 20, 2011 Thanks for the quick reply. I’ve experienced some slippage in high gear when I throttle it so it’s something I need to look at. I’m also wondering if it may have to do with using the dino Rotella 15w 40. It’s good oil but perhaps it’s not the best for this application (I don’t want to stat a war here just thinking out loud). I’ve talked with John down at PCW (thanks for the info) and will be ordering the spring upgrade. I may also consider other options for oil. Great write-up in the tech section! I first noticed my clutch slipping a couple month's ago with appx 32,000 kilometers on the bike. This slippage was occurring when I did some high-rev power shifts between 3rd & 4th. I ordered skydoc_17's kit and when I pulled my clutch apart, one of the metal discs was partially blued already. I was able to clean that up with some emery paper. After installing the kit with the PCW spring, I did the power shift again... and again.... NO MORE SLIPPING! The thing is, if you don't do something about it asap, it will eventually cause you to have to replace those discs. Of course, if you don't drive it hard like some of us do, they may never wear out LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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