Need some ideas

[Condor]

OK, finally got out and started messin' with the 87 over the weekend. With all the other stuff I had to do before FtCollions I hadn't had a chance to work on it, and it's been sitting for more than 2 months without firing it up. Choked the 'H' out of it, turned the key on, pushed the start button, and it fired almost imediately, and the R's went right up to 3grand. Cool!! Now here's the kicker. Every time I blipped the throttle the motor wanted to die. OK, so I thought the loose air cleaner box which I hadn't mounted since the last time I played with it was causing the problem. Shut it off and mounted the box. Even connected the *&^%% breather hose. Fired it up again. Blip the throttle. Same thing?? It would idle like a champ at high rpm's, but twist the grip and deadsville. I finally played with the throttle and by blipping it in short bursts I could get the engine to rev up to about 5 grand, but that was it. Also when I took the choke completely off the engine died..... Anyone have any ideas?? All feedback welcome at this point..... Fuel filter clogged maybe?? Whatcha think...

BTW it's had two cans of Sea Foam thru it....

[hipshot]

i,m watchin' this one, too!

seems to be a common problem, with 1st gen.s that have been left "setting up", for a while.

just jt

[SilvrT]

Air/Fuel mixture setting??? or is there such a thing on these?

[bongobobny]

Hmmmm. Pull the air cleaner and watch what is happening with the butterfly valves as you blip it. Waste a spray can of carb cleaner thru the throats while running. May be gummed up throttle plates or sliders...

[CrazyHorse]

I had similar problem it was my very small pilot jets in the jet block that were plugged part of the idle circuit. It would not idle but would run with throttle open. It would also run with choke on but not off. Seafoam or any cleaner did nothing. I had to disasemble the carbs and pull out the pilot jets in the jet block and unplug them by running a stiff wire bristle from a wire brush through them. (I could feel it as I pushed the wire through a couple of times.) There was a hard crud in them no cleaner was getting out. The pilot jets are soft brass so be careful it you do this especially when unscrewing them. I also replaced the jet block gaskets also. I also replaced the rubber plugs in the jet block because they broke when I tried to remove them. This is what fixed my bike it sat for 3 yrs prior. Hope this helps. Jim.

[Condor]

Air/Fuel mixture setting??? or is there such a thing on these?

 

First thing I did was recheck the idle screw settings. All OK.... No help. Beside they're not even in the mix past 2000rpm... but I thought I'd check them anyway.

[Redneck]

First thing I would do is drain the carbs. Make sure the fuel isn't rotten. check the plugs and make sure they aren't fouled.

Third thing would be to part it out and buy a second gen.

[Condor]

Hmmmm. Pull the air cleaner and watch what is happening with the butterfly valves as you blip it. Waste a spray can of carb cleaner thru the throats while running. May be gummed up throttle plates or sliders...

 

Did that Bob. No movement at idle, but when I 'coaxed' it into higher rpms they all pulled equally...??

[Condor]

First thing I would do is drain the carbs. Make sure the fuel isn't rotten. check the plugs and make sure they aren't fouled.

Third thing would be to part it out and buy a second gen.

 

New plugs and wires Mike. Fresh fuel. Although...maybe from running a rich mix of Sea Foam I might have fouled the plugs again. I'll pull one and take a look.

[Condor]

I had similar problem it was my very small pilot jets in the jet block that were plugged part of the idle circuit. It would not idle but would run with throttle open. It would also run with choke on but not off. Seafoam or any cleaner did nothing. I had to disasemble the carbs and pull out the pilot jets in the jet block and unplug them by running a stiff wire bristle from a wire brush through them. (I could feel it as I pushed the wire through a couple of times.) There was a hard crud in them no cleaner was getting out. The pilot jets are soft brass so be careful it you do this especially when unscrewing them. I also replaced the jet block gaskets also. I also replaced the rubber plugs in the jet block because they broke when I tried to remove them. This is what fixed my bike it sat for 3 yrs prior. Hope this helps. Jim.

 

I was hoping it wouldn't come to that Jim. I might try pure Sea Foam in the carbs and let it sit for a while.... Thanks for the input....

[CrazyHorse]

I tried that also even running pure seafoam through the fuel pump into carbs didnt help.

[matt73ander]

I'm still learing on bikes but on trucks a two month sit shouldn't gum anything up. i got a '71 chev in the garage that sat for 4 yrs before i fired it the last time and it still ran great with the same old gas in it. I'd say that just luck though but still 2 months doesn't seem like it should be enough to cause a problem with bad gas or gummed up carbs. I'd say your looking more for a problem with cracked rubber, vacum lines, or something like that. just my 2 cents

[CrazyHorse]

You might be able to get away with running a bristle though it without taking the jet out out of the block. I'm not saying this is your problem but it sure sounds like what I went through.

[Condor]

You might be able to get away with running a bristle though it without taking the jet out out of the block. I'm not saying this is your problem but it sure sounds like what I went through.

 

i'll keep that thought as a last resort Jim. I'll let the Sea Foam sit in there for a week if I need to. I still have two other VR's that are ready to ride....

[Lone Eagle]

And then when you're done with yet another can of SeaFoam, do like Redneck says " Third thing would be to part it out and buy a second gen.

[Condor]

And then when you're done with yet another can of SeaFoam, do like Redneck says " Third thing would be to part it out and buy a second gen.

 

Vic..Vic..Vic...... Ya don't shoot the horse when it's still breathin'..........

[Redneck]

Vic..Vic..Vic...... Ya don't shoot the horse when it's still breathin'..........

Just when would you shoot the horse? After it quits breathing.

[Condor]

Just when would you shoot the horse? After it quits breathing.

 

Hey, give a guy a break...it's still early out here.. Save the bullet.... go ahead and kick 'm.....

[Guest tjon]

Condor, While you're at it you may want to check for vacuum leaks.

[Gearhead]

"First thing I did was recheck the idle screw settings. All OK.... No help. Beside they're not even in the mix past 2000rpm... but I thought I'd check them anyway.

...

I'm still learing on bikes but on trucks a two month sit shouldn't gum anything up. i got a '71 chev in the garage that sat for 4 yrs before i fired it "

This is a fairly common problem on bikes, not just Ventures. Maybe they're more susceptible than cars because the jets are tiny. My boat (chevy engine) routinely sits for 9-10 months and then starts, but bikes are more sensitive sometimes. I agree that 2 months is awfully quick, but I had one that really needed a carb cleaning but ran OK if I kept it going, and it would get cranky in a similar timeframe of not running. It's problem was definitely in the pilot circuits. Sometimes it would clear up if I just ran it for awhile. I could remove the pilot screws, spray carb cleaner in there and it would clear up. In fact, I could see the gunk on the tips of the screws and in the holes.

Condor, I disagree with your assessment of the pilots not being in effect over 2k rpm. I've seen those charts, but also read some other stuff that makes sense to me. Carbs are airflow-sensitive devices, not rpm-sensitive. So, pilots control the first 1/4 to 1/3 of the AIRFLOW range, which is dictated by a combination of rpm and throttle opening. The rpm rule of thumb for carb circuits may apply at full throttle, if you whack the throttle open at idle and hold it there up to redline.

Jeremy

[Condor]

"

 

Condor, I disagree with your assessment of the pilots not being in effect over 2k rpm. I've seen those charts, but also read some other stuff that makes sense to me. Carbs are airflow-sensitive devices, not rpm-sensitive. So, pilots control the first 1/4 to 1/3 of the AIRFLOW range, which is dictated by a combination of rpm and throttle opening. The rpm rule of thumb for carb circuits may apply at full throttle, if you whack the throttle open at idle and hold it there up to redline.

 

Jeremy

 

Not making a statement Jeremy as much as repeating what I've read from other members who are far better than I'll ever hope to be when it comes to talking 'CARB'....

[Gearhead]

I understand, and I've seen that about the rpm range and carb circuits before, but I don't think it's totally correct. In your case, I find it very likely that pilot ciruits are your problem.

 

Jeremy

[Squeeze]

Hi Folks,

 

as for the Ranges in which each Carb-Subsystem is working...

 

Just try to see them as a Stack of the Subsystems.

 

The Idle-System handles more or less 10 Percent of the total Ammount of Fuel and Air.

 

The above Idle to 1/4 of the Total is run by the Pilot Jets, Air and Fuel with around 15 Percent of total Mixture Control

 

these 15 Percent go on Top of the 10 Percent the Idle System handles, and add up to a total of around 25 Percent of the grand Total.

 

So, if there is something wrong in one of the Subsystems, the whole System, the grand Total, allways is effected. But, more or less effected, depending on what Subsystem is the Culprit.

 

Because there is no sharp Edge in the Subsystems, a Problem in one Subsystem effects also the next Subsystem which makes a Problem hard to find.

 

Example:

 

Lets say there are the Pilot Fuel Jets a bit clunked.

 

So there is not enough Fuel to pass through the Jets. e.g. 25 Percent less Fuel. So, in the Idle Range 25 Percent Loss of Fuel is a huge Loss, a very lean Mixture. This huge Ammount of lean Mixture, the Motor won't run good and responsive at Idle.

 

When this Engine is revving at full Throttle and fully open Slides, this doesn't make a big Difference, because there is missing only 25 Percent of 10 Percents Share of the grand Total.

 

As seen from the grand Total, there are only missing 2.5 Percent Fuel at full Throttle, because the other Subsystems are not clunked and deliver Fuel as they should. So A/F Ratio isn't effected that much and the Motor runs fine.

 

If Idle-System and above Idle System would be fully clunked, there would be 25 Percent of the normal Fuel missing. This would make the Engine run very lean and the Rider would feel it, without a Doubt.

 

 

I hope you understand what i'm trying to explain.

[DragonRider]

SEAFOAM..................................................

[Condor]

 

 

I hope you understand what i'm trying to explain.

 

Thanks Squeeze, that makes sense to me. Looks like I'm in for a carb rebuild. At least all the diaphrams are in great shape... BTW Clunked in 'Squeeze Speak' is Clogged...