bootjack Posted August 3, 2017 Share #26 Posted August 3, 2017 So the "points" is the fuel pump relay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted August 3, 2017 Share #27 Posted August 3, 2017 No, the points on the fuel pump are under the black cap on the fuel pump end. They make and break causing the pump to actually, well, pump!! The relay supplies the operating voltage to the points when the key is first turned on for less than 5 seconds, and then continuously after the engine starts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootjack Posted August 3, 2017 Share #28 Posted August 3, 2017 No, the points on the fuel pump are under the black cap on the fuel pump end. They make and break causing the pump to actually, well, pump!! The relay supplies the operating voltage to the points when the key is first turned on for less than 5 seconds, and then continuously after the engine starts... So what is causing the points to open and close? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted August 3, 2017 Share #29 Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) The physical movement of the diaphragm I believe... When you turn on the key, you hear a click click click. That is the points opening and closing, NOT the fuel pump relay turning on and off... Keep in mind we use an inline fuel pump that uses a plunger, not an electric motor such as usually found inside a car gas tank, which generally uses an electric motor needed for higher fuel pressures for fuel injection. Our fuel pumps are more akin to the old mechanical fuel pump that used a push rod driven by a camshaft lobe to do the pumping. the Venture is carburetted which uses a much lower operating pressure... Pull the left side false battery cover from your RSV and locate the fuel pump. There you will see a black cap with a screw to remove it. Remove the cap and you will see the points... Edited August 3, 2017 by bongobobny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted August 3, 2017 Share #30 Posted August 3, 2017 Perhaps this image will help you understand... http://www.globalspec.com/ImageRepository/LearnMore/20122/fuel%20pump%20diagramb28f6490842c485394ecf10695bece1c.png Electricity is supplied to the electromagnet which pulls the diaphragm. This causes the contact points to disconnect, causing the spring to push the plunger back out. This causes the points to reconnect sending electricity back into the electromagnet causing the whole process to start over again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted August 3, 2017 Share #31 Posted August 3, 2017 Maybe this will help a bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted August 3, 2017 Share #32 Posted August 3, 2017 Perfect, Jack!!! Now, do you have a picture of the Fuel Pump relay?? I could probably crop the fuel pump relay circuit and paste to explain its operation for the guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootjack Posted August 3, 2017 Share #33 Posted August 3, 2017 Perhaps this image will help you understand... http://www.globalspec.com/ImageRepository/LearnMore/20122/fuel%20pump%20diagramb28f6490842c485394ecf10695bece1c.png Electricity is supplied to the electromagnet which pulls the diaphragm. This causes the contact points to disconnect, causing the spring to push the plunger back out. This causes the points to reconnect sending electricity back into the electromagnet causing the whole process to start over again... Thanks! I was thinking of electric motor type pump with some sort of impeller... Now the next questions...what are the specs on the OEM pump...psi and GPH...I don't see those listed in the service manual. Has any one done a bench test to determine this? My bike has been sitting for a few months (long story), and when I went to start it up last week, the normal clicking from the fuel pump was not heard when kill switch was turned off and bike would not start....tried the next day and the clicking was there and bike fired up normally after gas got pumped up to carbs. Bike has 88,000 miles and never had a problem like this, so a bit apprehensive of going out for a long ride till I check it out. Thanks again for the extra info !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted August 3, 2017 Share #34 Posted August 3, 2017 Perfect, Jack!!! Now, do you have a picture of the Fuel Pump relay?? I could probably crop the fuel pump relay circuit and paste to explain its operation for the guy... Sorry.. Can't help you there Bob. I do know that the pressure is controlled by a center post/interrupter rod. As the lines come up to max pressure the diaphragm doesn't compress, rod holds the points apart, and the pumping stops. As the pressure in the lines drops the points close and shazam the coil fires and the diaphragm cycles until the pressure returns to specs. And so on.... Kinda a rinse-lather-repeat operation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootjack Posted August 3, 2017 Share #35 Posted August 3, 2017 So normally just the points go "out", what happens to them? Would a standard points cleaning every 20K miles or so be helpful? Should they have a condenser across them? was it left out for "economy" or packaging? Good idea...IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted August 3, 2017 Share #36 Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) Good idea...IMHO.Yeah, stuttering Gary's head is more than just a hat rack... Somewhere, in some thread here, is the specs you are looking for. Sorry, but I don't have them handy. This is a timely question though as I am considering buying one of those aftermarket ones that have close to the same specs and has the shut-off feature. Our bikes are carburetted so the psi should be around 10. Not sure of the flow rate but remember that when the carbs are full, the needle valve closes and no more gas gets in, resulting in a pressure build up on the inlet line which results in the pump eventually not being able to pump more... Edited August 3, 2017 by bongobobny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gggGary Posted August 3, 2017 Share #37 Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) My 99 is coming up on 20K should take a look at the pump points, maybe jus' fo S&G throw a typical automotive condenser across them? Hmm this seems relevant. http://www.team.net/sol/tech/SU-diode.html Edited August 3, 2017 by gggGary added ink with info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootjack Posted August 3, 2017 Share #38 Posted August 3, 2017 Yeah, stuttering Gary's head is more than just a hat rack... Somewhere, in some thread here, is the specs you are looking for. Sorry, but I don't have them handy. This is a timely question though as I am considering buying one of those aftermarket ones that have close to the same specs and has the shut-off feature. Our bikes are carburetted so the psi should be around 10. Not sure of the flow rate but remember that when the carbs are full, the needle valve closes and no more gas gets in, resulting in a pressure build up on the inlet line which results in the pump eventually not being able to pump more... Timely for me too.....I ordered points today and may opt for the Facet, or something similar, later. Over $200 for OEM is a bit too much I think... If you come across the OEM specs post them please.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinR Posted August 3, 2017 Share #39 Posted August 3, 2017 Maybe this will help a bit... http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=109909http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=109910http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=109911http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=109912http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=109913 According to all I can find about this part number, it doesn't fit any of the RSV's or TD's. 2 different sites, including the link first showing these points say this part is a no go. Are they wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leland Posted August 3, 2017 Share #40 Posted August 3, 2017 According to the service manual, the stock fuel pump is a Mitsubishi 4NK with an outlet pressure of 15~20 kPa = 2.2~2.9 PSI. The Facet 40178 is rated for a max of 3.5 PSI, min of 2.0. This is the one that I used. I took a 1500 mile trip to the Black Hills with it a couple of weeks ago with no issues which included 200 miles of 75-85 MPH interstate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted August 4, 2017 Share #41 Posted August 4, 2017 According to all I can find about this part number, it doesn't fit any of the RSV's or TD's. 2 different sites, including the link first showing these points say this part is a no go. Are they wrong? YEP!!.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootjack Posted August 4, 2017 Share #42 Posted August 4, 2017 According to the service manual, the stock fuel pump is a Mitsubishi 4NK with an outlet pressure of 15~20 kPa = 2.2~2.9 PSI. The Facet 40178 is rated for a max of 3.5 PSI, min of 2.0. This is the one that I used. I took a 1500 mile trip to the Black Hills with it a couple of weeks ago with no issues which included 200 miles of 75-85 MPH interstate. Well crap...missed seeing the specs when I was looking in my manual the other day....just went out to garage and slowly reviewed spec sheets and there it was! Flipping pages too fast I suppose. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ky. Rider Posted August 4, 2017 Share #43 Posted August 4, 2017 Put an E8016S fuel pump from CARQUEST for $65 on my 06 about 2 yrs. ago. Works fine so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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