V7Goose Posted October 12, 2009 Share #1 Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) Thought I'd give y'all a little first hand observation on the operation of the RSV carb heaters. Most anyone with an interest is this subject already knows that the four carb heaters pull a combined 60 watts of electricity, the equivalent of the stock driving lights. Considering the limited extra power output of our stock charging system for things like heated clothing and such, reclaiming that 60 watts is an oft-discussed issue. But the one thing we have never really discussed is just how often and how long those carb heaters are actually on. I added a cutoff switch last year to allow me to manually shut them off if I ever wanted, and I also added an LED to let me see just when they were really on. Problem is, I honestly never remembered to actually check it anytime it would have been of value! Well, when several of us were up in Palo Duro Canyon in the Texas Panhandle this weekend, I finally had a good chance to check it out and actually remembered to do it. This discussion is NOT about the technical specifications of when the thermostat triggers the heaters to come on and go off - you can find that in the shop manual. This is about real world observation of when they are REALLY on and when you might care. I found that when the temperature is 35 degrees, the carb heaters will stay on for about 30 minutes when doing low-speed and city type riding. After about that long, the combined heat from the engine and that right rear exhaust pipe (real close to the heater thermostat) will cause them to go off and stay off (PROVIDED you continue riding in the same conditions). BUT, at highways speeds (for this test it was anything above 60 MPH), the constant blast of cold air around the bike will KEEP THE CARB HEATERS ON CONSTANTLY. If you slow down while riding through a town, they will go off, but shortly after you get back up to speed, they come right back on. As the temperature approaches 40 degrees they will go off and stay off, even while cruising at 70 MPH. So, bottom line seems to be that the value of disabling the heaters to reclaim that extra electrical power will completely depend on your type of riding and the lowest outside temperatures in which you might ride. If you never or rarely venture out on two wheels when the temperatures are below 40 degrees, you can pretty much just ignore the carb heaters - they won't be on long enough to make much of a difference for you, even if you are pushing the limit of the available electrical power. Just half an hour or so of extra drain won't make much of a difference UNLESS that is about as long as you ride each time (such as only riding to and from work instead of on a long trip). However, if you tend to ride below 40 degrees, you really should think about putting in a switch. I think the most important advice I would give anyone who has concerns about the electrical capacity on these bikes is to add a digital volt meter. I have discussed the benefits and limitations of both volt meters and ammeters in some older threads, and although neither of them alone will let you diagnose the condition of both the battery and the charging system, the volt meter alone WILL suffice to give you a heads-up when you are on thin ice. In short, if all is good, the voltage should ALWAYS be over 13.0 volts while above idle. If you see it staying at anything below 12.9 volts while riding, either your battery is on it's last legs, or you have more electrical load than your charging system can handle (while having to charge the battery too). Goose BTW - as I have stated in many other posts over the years, from my own personal measurements, the stock RSV with Yamahaha riding lights (only 30 watts each) and carb heaters on is already at max load if you are using the audio system and CB too. There just ain't nuthin left for anything else but maybe a few LED lights. Some people claim to have been using 55 watt driving lights and heated clothing for years with no problems - good for them, but it ain't so on the two RSVs I have owned. Without the proper gauges you can THINK everything is fine, but you are slowly destroying your battery. And not even "slowly" if the bike is usually run for less than an hour each time you start it! If you don't have the gauges, but still want to know if your battery is really up to snuff, just use a decent digital volt meter and touch it to the battery terminals after the bike has been sitting overnight (any reading within 3 hours of the last ride will be invalid due to a superficial "float" charge). If the battery is not at 12.9 volts, it is NOT fully charged. And like I said above, if the volt meter does not read over 13 volts (preferably about 13.8 - 14.0) when you start the bike and bring the engine above idle, then it can't even properly charge the battery if it is not already damaged, hence the "slow death" that will have you buying batteries more often than you need to. Edited October 12, 2009 by V7Goose Added last comment about capacity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMIKE Posted October 12, 2009 Share #2 Posted October 12, 2009 Very good information...I appreciate you taking the time to share this with the group. It is very useful to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilBeaver Posted October 12, 2009 Share #3 Posted October 12, 2009 Very good information...I appreciate you taking the time to share this with the group. It is very useful to me. Goose, you beat me to it. Since things were cooling off, I was going to rig something up to let me check this as well. Good info, thanks for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkboard Posted October 12, 2009 Share #4 Posted October 12, 2009 Thanks, Kent, I always look forward to your excelent posts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N3FOL Posted October 12, 2009 Share #5 Posted October 12, 2009 Great info! Thanks for the post. My carb heaters will stay connected for this winter. Out goes the pigtail for my Gerbings tomorrow morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossKean Posted October 12, 2009 Share #6 Posted October 12, 2009 Thanks to Goose, we now know when the heaters are on and when they're not. I would be interested to know if anyone has ever had a problem with carbs icing. I assume this would be a problem only when temperatures are low enough and the relative humidity is high. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greener Posted October 12, 2009 Share #7 Posted October 12, 2009 Thanks Goose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7Goose Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share #8 Posted October 12, 2009 Thanks to Goose, we now know when the heaters are on and when they're not. I would be interested to know if anyone has ever had a problem with carbs icing. I assume this would be a problem only when temperatures are low enough and the relative humidity is high. Ross To my knowledge, no one has every noticed such a problem. In fact, older versions of this same bike do not even have carb heaters (but they do have smaller carburetors). I know a number of owners have completely disabled their carb heaters and have never seen a reason to have them. Personally, I prefer to leave them operational. Just because I don't know the facts about why the manufacturer put them on the bike doesn't convince me they do not have value! I may be an idiot, but I do not believe that a manufacturer will deliberately design in a feature unless they believe it has technical value, is required by law, or will increase market share by making the consumer THINK it has value. But that's just me. Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sttenor Posted October 12, 2009 Share #9 Posted October 12, 2009 Thanks Goose. Once again, you da' man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlh3rd Posted October 12, 2009 Share #10 Posted October 12, 2009 maybe during testing or prooving ( proofing ?) runs yamaha encountered icing indications at one time ...so they added heaters thanks for the info.....i won't add a switch now..or remove the fuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCReb Posted October 12, 2009 Share #11 Posted October 12, 2009 Can any one post pictures? I looked at a picture on another post but can't tell. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tx2sturgis Posted October 13, 2009 Share #12 Posted October 13, 2009 If its like airplanes, the carb heaters are only needed ( on a ground based vehicle) when you are at light or no throttle, descending a long grade, ( landing an airplane!) in cool or cold, and maybe humid, or especially foggy weather. It could be a nuisance ( or worse) with a bike, to lose power under that situation. I would leave them operational, but as Goose suggested, a switch might be a good option. ...or...turn off the aux lighting when youre in some questionable conditions, since you know the carb heaters will be on....which is what I do. I also have a digital volt and amp gauge installed, and manage my electrical loads, when running with a heated vest, heated grips, and of course, cold weather. Just another option. By the way Goose. Your last few tech articles concerning this and the coolant changout are high quality material. Top Notch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puckman123 Posted October 13, 2009 Share #13 Posted October 13, 2009 Can someone tell me how many Amps the second gen ventures are supposed to draw, and how many are to much. Thanks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7Goose Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share #14 Posted October 13, 2009 I don't fully grok the question. You can find the max current that can be generated from the stator in the technical specifications. How much is needed by the bike depends on what you turn on. And as I stated at the bottom of the first post in this thread, anything more than a stock Venture with Yamaha Yamaha driving lights added is too much (when the carb heaters are on too). Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddyRich Posted October 13, 2009 Share #15 Posted October 13, 2009 Well, Your main fuse is a 30a. So if your blowin the main fuse your overloading the wires. As stated, how much it draws depends on everything you have turned on. Up to and including the cruise control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7Goose Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share #16 Posted October 13, 2009 Your bike would probably be dead WAY before you could ever blow that 30A fuse from too many add-ons! The only time all that current would be pulled through the fuse is if EVERYTHING was turned on with the key in the on position and the engine not running. When the engine is running, the stator will provide as much current as it can for the load, with the excess being sucked out of the battery (and through that fuse). That's why you really need a volt meter and/or an ammeter to monitor what is actually going on at any particular time. Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlh3rd Posted October 13, 2009 Share #17 Posted October 13, 2009 i've got a question/observation.....i decide i need more amps to run all my stuff., ..........so i go out and get the buckeye stator at 50 amps.......but now , i discover my voltage/regulator is 30 amps max ( service manual)....i'm still stuck with a 30 amp system...right ??...... and no aftermarket regulator......... just wanna see if i'm looking at this correctly......... and so any draw over 30 amps will come out of the ..battery ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tx2sturgis Posted October 13, 2009 Share #18 Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) i've got a question/observation.....i decide i need more amps to run all my stuff., ..........so i go out and get the buckeye stator at 50 amps.......but now , i discover my voltage/regulator is 30 amps max ( service manual)....i'm still stuck with a 30 amp system...right ??...... and no aftermarket regulator......... just wanna see if i'm looking at this correctly......... and so any draw over 30 amps will come out of the ..battery ?? Not exactly. Your stock R/R can SHUNT 30 amps max, ( maybe more during brief high rpm running) but it should never be required to shunt the full 50 amps, because the bike will be using around 20-25 amps average. If you add a higher output stator, you should probably try to use some of those extra electrons, such as for added lighting and other loads, and since most riders who add a high output stator have those extra loads, it should be no problem....besides, that 50 amp rating is the MAX amps at MAX RPM, and normally the bike wont be run that hard for very long. The upgraded stator is able to keep up with the higher loads during normal RPM operation, whereas the stock stator might have had some problems at normal RPM keeping up with the higher electrical drain, from added loads. Feeding these extra loads thru a relay is the way to do it. While it is possible to cook the stock R/R with a higher output stator, its not likely...but the more amps you draw with added loads, the less the stock R/R will be shunting to ground, and the less heat it will have to dissipate. Having said that, yes, an upgraded R/R would be a good idea, although most likely it will simply have more heatsink area. Edited October 13, 2009 by tx2sturgis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlh3rd Posted October 13, 2009 Share #19 Posted October 13, 2009 thanks.....i got it......so why don't i ( or should i ) see more than 13V at normal rpm with a good battery, 50 A stator, running 50w lamps, run/turn/brake lights ( incandescent ), silverstar ultra headlight, heated liner and gloves............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tx2sturgis Posted October 13, 2009 Share #20 Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) thanks.....i got it......so why don't i ( or should i ) see more than 13V at normal rpm with a good battery, 50 A stator, running 50w lamps, run/turn/brake lights ( incandescent ), silverstar ultra headlight, heated liner and gloves............. 13 to 13.6 I would think should be about right. What do you mean by 'normal' RPM...idling? or around say 3000 to 4000 rpms? ? And did you constantly watch the reading? It will vary as the R/R operates on and off to shunt excess current to ground. Your regulator has not been changed, I assume, so it will be trying to hold the voltage at the same level as it did when you had the stock stator. Feel the regulator and if its warm to moderately hot, OK..if its very hot, you may see a shortened R/R lifespan. Are you still having problems? Such as dimming lights or a dead battery? It is possible that the stock ROTOR, ( not stator) has barely enough magnetic saturation to handle the stock stator..this part, Im not sure about. A normal motorcycles electrical system WILL vary in voltage, sometimes by as much as 2 volts, when all is well. Try not to overthink this. If your voltage is in the 'normal zone', and stays there, even with added loads, you should be good to go. If you see some weird things happening, THEN its time to get excited. Edited October 13, 2009 by tx2sturgis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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