American

Cowpuc, I will enjoy the bike in fact just got back from a hour fifteen minute ride before the rains hit today. BlueSky, If they call Harley and get a new lower payoff amount they will likely be committing fraud at that point, the sales contract is documented that they received a 20 day payoff quote and that is the number listed on the signed sales contract. This is more of an inconvenience to me currently unless they refuse to payoff the bike completely leaving me the entire balance to resolve then they will have committed fraud outright and from research they could also be in violation of the "Truth In Lending Act". Destination Powersports is the one who's reputation is going to suffer. Just for a little more information there parent name is Charlotte Motorsports LLC, DBA (doing business as) Destination Powersports. I just don't want others in the area or even traveling to get caught up with a dealer that pulls this kind of garbage. We can only protect ourselves through the sharing of information. I will get my money one way or another unless they go out of business, at which point I will get Harley Davidson Financial Services to assist in getting the Harley Back as they are the holder of the note and the bike can't be legally sold, titled or registered until that lien is released.

Held Hostage by Destination Powersports located in Punta Gorda, Florida Day 30 Current HDFS loan status: ACCOUNT OVERVIEW Account Status: GOOD STANDING Payoff Estimate: $11,412.32. The payoff estimate is valid through 6/04/2018. Outstanding Balance: $11,366.34 Next Payment Due: 6/01/2018

29 days have gone by still no payoff, started different methods of putting pressure on Destination Powersports, will be having an attorney draft a letter at the end of the month. May 25, 2018 will be 30 days or one month since I traded in the Harley Davidson. I will keep a count down going, I would not recommend Destination Powersports to anyone after this. I don't think they really care about bad publicity to be honest.

We are getting a ton of rain but this morning it was not raining so the wife and I went for a ride, it was 84 degrees humid but not hot and engine heat was not a problem, do you feel some heat? Sure, you have 113 CI sitting right in front of you between your legs but it was not enough to make you want to get off the bike.

You went a tad over the redline there in your video on the 83 Venture, does it have a RPM limiter like the 2018 Venture has? I agree with ChiefGunner that you were above the power band on the 2018 Venture as in your video you kept the RPM's over 3,000 RPM's in your acceleration run. I don't have a camera to make recording with and I am not about to try using my Canon DSLR as it is just to big and awkward to attempt such a feat. My iPhone 8plus is also far to easy to drop. These two bikes take two different technics to ring the best performance out of them, your 1983 Venture is an overhead cam high RPM designed engine while the 2018 Venture is a push rod overhead valve low rpm design engine. You are just used to your 1983 Venture's power band being in the upper RPM ranges as it redlines at 7500 RPM, the 2018 Venture's power band maxes out torque wise at 2500 RPM to 2700 RPM depending on which dyno sheet you look at from different reviews and remember no two dyno's will produce the same numbers for the same bike. I have seen test review dyno sheets that go from 105 lbs feet of torque at the rear wheel to 109, 110 and one dyno run showed 112 lbs feet of torque at the rear wheel. The 113 puts out 126 lbs feet of torque at the crankshaft at 2500 RPM. The 105 lbs feet of torque dyno run was with an Eluder so maybe due to the trunk being gone it experienced some rear tire slippage on the dyno roller. A dyno run is not 100% accurate it is only a representation of the rear wheel power being put down on that dyno roller, if you are getting better traction on the road surface and no tire slippage vs being on the dyno roller with some tire slippage off the dyno rear wheel power would be higher than that dyno run showed. A dyno is just a tool. An engine dyno on the other hand does not have any traction issues to deal with so it is a true representation of the power of the engine at the crankshaft.

The thing to remember is that our transmissions/primary's are gear driven and the Yamaha design of this engine lubricates the engine, primary and transmission, being this is a shared sump type system that is all gear driven it is harder on the oil. Group II oils have viscosity modifiers added to them and group II oils are conventional oils so the oils molecules are all different sizes with the smaller molecules getting used up quickest due to the gear style system shearing them. That is why group II oils require viscosity modifiers to assist them with durability. Group III oils are just higher refined conventional oils that remove more of the impurities from the oil but it still has different size molecules and requires viscosity modifiers like its group II brother. Mobil filed a complaint against Castrol oil with an advertising board (NAD) saying that group III oils are not synthetic oils as Castrol oil had started labeling their group III oils as full synthetic. The advertising board sided with Castrol oil allowing them to label their group III oils as full synthetic oils. The same group III oil labeled as full synthetic in America can not be labeled as synthetic in Germany/Europe as they do not allow group III refined oils to be labeled full synthetic. The extra refining of a group III oil is also called hydro cracked which is just another term for the higher refinement. Group III+ is a newer class of conventional oil that is PROCESSES FOR CONVERTING NATURAL GAS INTO LIQUIDS. It is also called GTL for gas to liquid, these oils are made by Shell who holds the patents on this process and is closer to a group IV synthetic. There is not a lot of information on group III+. Group IV oils are true synthetic meaning every molecule is the same as all the others, that is why group IV oils do not require viscosity modifiers, group IV oils are PAO made from polyalphaolefins. Group V oils are all other synthetics not in group IV category like esters. In group V oils every molecule is the same as all the others. Ester does have one advantage with that being ester is a positive charge so it clings to metal parts aiding in cold starts. That is why you will find group V ester added to a lot of group IV, III and even semi-synthetic oils. My preference is to run a full group V ester based oil. It should be noted that the only oils certified for use in turbine engines are group V ester based oils, no group I, II, III, III+ or IV oil can withstand the high temp environment of a turbine engine. Being we are running an air/oil cooled designed engine I like knowing that I will never have to worry about my group V oil breaking down due to heat if I get stuck in some traffic. Here is a rough example of what I am talking about when I refer to the size of molecules in the oil make up. The two straight lines represent bearing surface or gear surface and the upper case, lower case "o" and number zero will represent the molecules. _____________________________________________ OO0oo00OOoooO0OOo0O00OO0o000ooOOOO0o0oO --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Assume the bottom line is touching the molecules. Notice the different shapes of the molecules with the larger ones touching the bearing surfaces and smaller ones not touching all of the bearing surface. Also the smaller molecules will be sheared quicker braking down the oil viscosity and that is why viscosity enhancers have to be added. Now here is a group IV or V true synthetic oil. ____________________________________________ OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Assume the bottom line is touching the molecules. See how every molecule is touching the bearing or gear surface? that means more protection, plus there is no need to add viscosity enhancers. This is just a basic explanation of the groups of oils and the difference between a true synthetic oil and group II, III, III+ oils. Group I oils are very lightly refined and not used in engines outside of antique engines and will be a non detergent oil so group I oils are not used in todays engines at all.

The thing to remember about ester is that ester is a group V synthetic, ester has a positive charge which means it will cling to metal parts. Group IV synthetics are PAO and do not have that positive charge so they can and do drain off of metal parts. That is why many group IV PAO synthetics will add some group V ester synthetic to them, the ester will cling to the metal parts. PAO synthetic are also very good synthetic oils.

I saved it to my desk top so I can open it anytime I need to.

I am sorry I upset you, I have no issue with people who name what products they use, however it is kind of pointless to say you done something then refuse to name the product you used. I have used Royal Purple in the past as well in my cars and Suzuki outboard motor, however I have never tried Royal Purple motorcycle oil but I suspect it would be a good choice as well. I ran Redline 10w-40 in my Victory 106 V-Twin. I live in Southwest Florida and our summer temps will climb up into the high 90's so down here a 20w-50 can be a good thing. Yamaha give a wide range of oils you can use from 10w-40 up to 20w-50 with a couple of selections between those two. Choice is a good thing no need to to hide what products you are using, I as well own a 2018 Yamaha Star Venture Transcontinental so I am just stating what I have put in mine and it is working just fine.

The definition of “motor vehicle” and “vehicle” has changed in Florida. The prior definition in Florida Statute 316.003 states: (21) Motor vehicle.–Except when used in s. 316.1001, any self-propelled vehicle not operated upon rails or guideway, but not including any bicycle, motorized scooter, electric personal assistive mobility device, or moped. For purposes of s. 316.1001, “motor vehicle” has the same meaning as in s. 320.01(1)(a). Effective January 1, 2013, the new definition that will apply to all crimes: (21) Motor vehicle.–Except when used in s. 316.1001, a self-propelled vehicle not operated upon rails or guideway, but not including any bicycle, motorized scooter, electric personal assistive mobility device, swamp buggy, or moped. For purposes of s. 316.1001, “motor vehicle” has the same meaning as in s. 320.01(1)(a). The definition also changed in Florida Statute 320.01. The definition effective until January 1, 2013 states: As used in the Florida Statutes, except as otherwise provided, the term: (1) “Motor vehicle” means: (a) An automobile, motorcycle, truck, trailer, semitrailer, truck tractor and semitrailer combination, or any other vehicle operated on the roads of this state, used to transport persons or property, and propelled by power other than muscular power, but the term does not include traction engines, road rollers, such vehicles as run only upon a track, bicycles, or mopeds. The new definition effective January 1, 2013 states: (a) An automobile, motorcycle, truck, trailer, semitrailer, truck tractor and semitrailer combination, or any other vehicle operated on the roads of this state, used to transport persons or property, and propelled by power other than muscular power, but the term does not include traction engines, road rollers, special mobile equipment as defined in s. 316.003(48), vehicles that run only upon a track, bicycles, swamp buggies, or mopeds.

Not a commercial for oil, it is good for people to post what works for them so others don't have to guess and try a bunch of different brands until they find something that works well. There are several good oils on the market for the V-Twin engines, Amsoil has a good one, Mobil One has a good V-Twin oil, Redline is good. I would be interested in hearing what brand you decided to go with that is working for you.

The 113 also sprays oil on the underside of the piston as well, Diesel engines use that as well, my 106 ci Victory Cross Country Tour also was air and oil cooled and that design also sprayed oil on the bottom of the piston. Victory's 106 engine is a good engine and one rider put 250,000 miles on his before he retired it, that bike is in some motorcycle museum today. There are other documented cases of the Victory 106 engine going over 100,000 miles without problems. I have no doubt this Yamaha 113 ci engine will be a long lasting durable and reliable engine as well.

I dumped the 600 mile service oil after 400 miles at the 1,000 mile mark, it was Yamalube conventional 10w-40 oil and replaced it with 20w-50 Redline synthetic oil. I used Redline oil in my Victory and my Harley and have had nothing but great results using Redline in my motorcycles, I also use Redline 0w-20 in my wife's 2016 Honda Civic 1.5 Turbo and Redline 0w-40 in my Ram 2500 with the 6.4 Hemi. I order my Redline oil from Racer Parts Wholesale. I like the Redline oil because it is a group V ester synthetic oil and ester has a positive charge so it clings to the metal parts instead of draining off so you are not completely dry on cold starts where an engine receives most of the wear.

Actually Yamaha says the front design inspiration came from a 70's Challenger.

If they payoff the amount listed on the contract then I will get a refund from Harley Davidson Financial Services, I have received over payments back from the banks in the past. This may be a deal where they are using the Yamaha loan money for a free 30 day loan as well, because the bank money if issued in a check is overnighted not sent regular mail because of the amount involved, if it is done electronically then they again would have the money the next day it was approved. I am hoping that they payoff the loan on the Harley on the 25th as that would be their 30 day free loan, it is another documented tactic dealers pull on the customer using the customers money. As it stands right now if the loan was paid today I would get a just over $400 dollars refund from Harley Davidson Financial services if Destination Powersports fails to payoff the loan then the second payment will take effect on June 1, 2018 and the over payment will jump up to over $800 dollars to be refunded but that is assuming they pay off the correct amount on the contract of $11,814.20, if they try to pull a fast one and call Harley Davidson Financial Services for a new payoff amount they will be given the current payoff which would be lower in which case Destination Powersports will be committing financial theft against me. That is a crime. If I get back my over payments I am pledging to contribute 20% of the overpayment to the form via the contribution button above. I will keep the forum posted on what happens.

That is where we get into sticky legal issues, we have a signed sales contract they get the Harley and I get the Yamaha, it is an interesting legal argument to get the Harley back, but I think it is going to take a little longer to establish their full intent if they choose to not pay off the Harley. It is something that I will look into.

Thanks, It will get worked out one way or another, even if Destination Powersports goes out of business whom ever ends up with the Harley will have to deal with the loan on it as it can't be titled to a new owner until it is paid off. There are 27 months left to go on the loan so I doubt any one who ends up with the bike will want to wait it out that long, they would settle up on the loan to remove the lean so they could title and register the bike.

Enjoy and lets us know how the bike faired on its first adVENTURE.

I use Plexus as well but tend to use it mostly on the windshield sometimes on a little bit of paint. The Bug Slide works well and is a couple dollars cheaper than a can of Plexus. Bug Slide can be purchased at most Harley dealers or you can order it online and you can get a small bottle that will fit in your saddle bag for that quick touch up when you stop for a break and want to clean the bugs off the front real quick. Bug Slide also comes with a micro fiber towel for wiping it off. Here is the travel size in the small bottle: https://www.jpcycles.com/product/352-878/bugslide-4-ounce-with-polishing-cloth? Here is the full size bottle for the garage: https://www.jpcycles.com/product/352-879/bugslide-16-oz-bottle-with-polishing-cloth?mrkgcl=444&mrkgadid=1330283459&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=74947197370product_type_l1vehicles_%26_parts%26product_type_l2land_vehicles%26product_type_l3mot&utm_campaign=PLA+-+Shopping+Campaign&product_id=352-879&utm_content=pla&adpos=1o3&creative=42616808650&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlt6_jc6b2wIVxrXACh2wEQeZEAQYAyABEgJLIPD_BwE Both Plexus and Bug Slide are great products that work.

No that is not the bike I traded in. This is the Harley Davidson I traded in: https://www.destination-powersports.com/default.asp?page=xInventoryDetail&id=5363151&p=1&s=Year&d=D&vt=motorcycle%20%2F%20scooter&year=2016&fr=xallinventory

You all humble me greatly, being I am retired law enforcement and have spent my career helping others I am used to going alone on things, your reaching out is appreciated. I have done many things for so many people without asking for anything in return over the years that this must be a token of goodwill being guided back my way. All I can say is thank you for the support and it won't be forgotten and will again be paid forward to others in one form or another.

Here is a good link for when a dealer fails to payoff a trade in loan. https://www.consumerlawgroup.com/blog/2014/06/games-dealers-play-not-paying-off-the-trade-in.shtml SilverT I am not asking the forum to get involved but I do not want a fellow forum member to get taken advantage of so that is why I have posted what is going on, I have been holding back on saying anything hoping the dealer would do the right thing but today they drew their line in the sand so now I will use some of my free retirement time to start protecting my interests. It appears Canada has different laws in how these things are treated but this link pretty well explains how it works here in the states for the most part.

Its not a bluff, I am not going to play their game, I already put in a complaint with the BBB as toothless as they are people do check them for complaints, Harley Davidson Financial Services has already been contacted and they have flagged the account but that does not release me from being responsible for paying back the loan if the dealer does not uphold their end of the sales contract, if I don't make the monthly payment they can and will report late payments to the credit reporting agencies so if any payment goes over 30 days, then 60 days, then 90 days those are all black marks on your credit report. I pay the payment just like always have on time, I am not letting the loan fall into default as the only one who will get harmed is me if I do that. I will be ramping up different means of putting pressure on Destination Powersports, one of which is forums like this one to get the word out that if you do business with them this is how they treated me so buyer beware. Once the second payment is sent at the end of this month with is just a few days away, I will see about getting one of the local stations involved if they run one of those trouble shooting segments where they go to businesses and ask them why they are not upholding their end of the contract. Being retired I have lots of time to seek out ways to get people looking at them to find out why they are not honoring the sales contract. Some of this stuff will take time to get the ball rolling but eventually they are either going to get tired of dealing with this or they are just going to say they don't care and let the bad publicity roll. The problem is each time I tried to talk to them they refuse to talk and just give you some lip service BSing you and think they have taken care of you for a few days, it becomes one of those wash, rinse and repeat deals. No one will give you a name so you can't document who it is you talk to. It has already been 27 days so in 3 days it will be 30 days, from what I have researched it is inexcusable for a dealer not to take care of a payoff on a trade within 20 days. Once it goes beyond twenty days that become unacceptable and that is where they say the dealer is running the not paying off the trade in scam and yes they call it a dealer scam.

I would have looked at the Star Venture if had the V4 water cooled configuration, but I do not have a problem with the V-Twin Yamaha decided to go with, you really have to more than a short demo ride to see what this bike really has to offer.

You are misunderstanding what is really going on, just because you rolled over your existing balance on your old loan does not mean the new loan paid off the old balance, If the vehicle you bought cost $30,000 dollars and you rolled $12,000 dollars of the old loan into the new loan the dealer still has to pay for the cost of the new vehicle. If it was done the way you are thinking then the $12,000 dollars would have been added on top of the new loan. It gets complicated trying to explain it. In the end the dealer has to sell the trade in to get the rest of the money back for the new car they sold you.