Starter Will Not Engage

[MkIILuke]

Hello everyone! I am sad my first post is a problem with my bike but to at the beginning of the season when i took my venture out of storage (the bike in question is a 1987 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300) the starter was not engaging, it would just spin, and sometimes it would grind (box of rocks sound) At first i would hit the starter button a few times and it would engage fully and then crank the motor (slowly but would start the motor) I thought this was a battery issue because my volt meter was not as high as it used to be (about 12v when charged), I had a 1 year old Deka AMG and i thought it just quit, so I ordered a new one- fully charged it- and nothing different.

The next thing I tried was taking off and cleaning the battery terminals and connectors, engine ground, and the starter hot lead. Again to no avail. Last season I installed a used 4-brush starter to replace the stock (perfectly working) 2 brush version.I thought maybe the clutch in the starter failed or it somehow died. So I just took that starter out and re-installed my stock one, charged up the battery, cranked it, and the new starter has not made a difference. The starter I took out did not have any stripped teeth and the gear inside the engine that it connects to looked great.

I am completely out of ideas on what to look at next as the root of my problem, something is not allowing my bike to get all the power of the battery- Any help would greatly be great!! I have not used my bike much this season at all because of this issue.

[frankd]

It sounds like your starter drive has bit the dust, but the drive is attached to the engine, not the starter. You'll have to remove the middle gear cover (left rear cover, about 5"x5", the stator cover (the large cover on the left side) and then if the small gears are not broken you have a bad stater drive, so you'll have to pull the alternator/ignition magnet to get to the starter drive. The magnet is usually a bear to remove, and you will need a strong puller. I used one from AutoZone after I broke one I had. You can use stock components to rebuild the drive, but some of us have installed drives made by Dano (on this site) which were originally built for bored V-Max motors---these drives are bullet proof.

 

Invest $12 and join this site. You will get more than $12 just fixing this item.

 

Good Luck,

 

Frank D.

[Snaggletooth]

That "box of rocks" sound would indicate a broken starter engage clutch. Bangs like a bandit when one or more internal components fail.

 

Might be just a broken spring on the engage pin that holds the pawl in place during engagement. More than likely the internal body is broken that holds it all together.

 

This can only be inspected by opening the left engine cover and removing the engage clutch for inspection.

 

Do a search here for "Engage Clutch Mod" or "Dano Engage Clutch" for more info. Dano has out together a great replacement for the OEM engage system. I've had his upgrade in my "84" since he started building them.

 

In my opinion trying to rebuild one is a waste of time and money. Did mine twice before replacing it with Danos. For the few bucks difference in the cost of a complete OEM engage and Danos upgrade you can't go wrong. A bulletproof upgrade and be the last time you will ever have to worry about it again for the life of the bike.

 

The search should lead to to informative reading and there are a few pics in my profile albums of the new engage.

 

Not a hard project to do yourself but will need a couple tools you don't usually carry in the saddlebags.

 

Mike

 

One of my posts on the project

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=45768

[Snaggletooth]

Danos original post on the mod he offers.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=44547

 

[Flyinfool]

I also have the starter clutch upgrade from Dano.

I have read way to many stories of people spending the $180 to replace with all of required OEM parts only to be doing it again in 2 years. I am not sure what the current prices are for the OEM or for Danos mod, but It is sure worth the extra money to never have to worry about it again.

Snaggles was the first one that Dano did, mine was the second. My bike is mostly used running around town so it gets a lot of starts.

[MkIILuke]

Well dang! I really wanted this to be an easy fix. I pulled the covers off and the little gears are all in great shape. So starter clutch it is. What tool to I need to pull the magnet off? And is there a special orientation that it needs to go back on? I have the repair manual somewhere but it seems to have been misplaced at the moment.

[Snaggletooth]

Any 3 bolt flywheel puller should work. (if it's a tough quality unit)

 

Use quality hardened bolts and thick hardened washers to attach it to the rotor.

 

You have to remember these rotors have been on there since the bike was build and more than likely never been off. Many flywheels sit on a tapered shaft and pop off fairly easy. These rotors seat on a straight cut shaft and they have a grip.

 

Things to keep in mind when removing the rotor is NO excessive heat in the magnet area of the rotor and NO 10lb hammer to beat it loose around the magnets in the rotor body.

 

The rotor itself is key fit to the shaft so no worry about it going back on in correct position.

 

One of the things is that Danos unit is assembled by Dano into the rotor for proper fit on to shaft after he drills the rotor for the 6 bolt mounting. All you have to do is slide it back on.

 

You send him the complete rotor assembly and he sends a complete upgrade unit back. No need to worry about alingment of the engage mod to the shaft. He does all that for you.

 

Not a hard repair even without a manual.

 

BTW...........Welcome to the site. You came to the right place for information on these bikes. Are we worth $12.00 yet?

 

 

[Flyinfool]

As Snaggle said. It is not a hard job to do, but it does take a lot of effort to get the flywheel to POP off.

When you are pulling to get it off, have something soft for it to land on. I tied a rope (string will break) from the puller to the frame to keep it from flying across the shed when it finally did let go.

 

If you search, there are a bunch of interesting stories of getting that flywheel off.

 

As mentioned, no heat or hammering, either can kill the magnets.

[Dano]

Just takin' a minute during the day to check on stuff and Voila!

 

Seems like you may need my help, you will HAVE to pull the rotor off the crank to totally investigate the starter clutch, along with pulling it off the rotor to check the round disk the pawls are in to see if it's cracked.

 

If you discover it is, just get ahold of me (email and cell # on my profile) and we'll arrange it. Comes complete as said with new 18 pawl starter clutch, all gaskets needed (including a new copper washer for that lower middle gear cover bolt!) ready for you to put on!

 

Grand total for all this is the paltry $12.35 postage in a USPS medium-size flat rate box to ship it to me, $325.00 for the upgrade and I'll pay the postage back to you. It only takes about a week or 10 days (depending on mail time...) and you'll be back riding again!

 

Thanks to Snaggles, FrankD and the Flyin'Fool for their help on this! Just good testimony from my more than satisfied customers....errr...riding buddies!

 

Dano

 

Oh yeah, invest that $12 to join the site! You'll NEVER regret it and gain a LOT of new friends!

[icebrrg3rd]

Another and a +1 to a Dano Starter Clutch. Tried waiting it out but it was getting worse, contemplated doing the cheap, replace it myself route, but then realized I might be back in there when it fails again, so I got the Dano one. Now you barely hear the starter turning before the motor is running, it's soooo much less embarassing trying to crank it up in public when it doesn't do it's impersonation of a rock crusher.

 

As for that no hammer info, when I had the puller on it, I did tap the bolt on the puller a few times to get it to pop off. And it flew a few feet before it hit the cardboard on the ground, so watch where you stand. Other than the removal, it is a simple, straight-forward easy to DIY repair. Oh, the magnet/flywheel is on a keyed shaft, so it can only go on one way, unless you don't put the key back in....

 

-Andrew

[Prairiehammer]

Many flywheels sit on a tapered shaft and pop off fairly easy. These rotors seat on a straight cut shaft and they have a grip.

 

Most of Snaggletooth's comments and advice are spot-on, however, the Venture 'flywheel'/rotor is indeed on a tapered shaft. THAT is precisely why the damn thing is so reluctant to disengage itself.

 

And here is an example of what probably has happened to your existing starter clutch (aka sprag clutch):

[Snaggletooth]

And I do stand corrected. Kevin's right. I got my brain cells firing backasswards lately.

 

Me thinks me memory banks are in need of an upgrade.

[Dano]

And I do stand corrected.

 

Me thinks me memory banks are in need of an upgrade.

 

 

Ahhh, we ALL get to see Snaggle's repudiation!

 

At least I'm STILL de-fragging my brain after takin' out that deer 3 years ago!!

 

And that's a medical excuse available for me, not just claiming AGE!!