dna9656 Posted June 10, 2014 Share #151 Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) An "RR" is a rectifier/Regulator.... I didn't know that. I'm having similar issues with the head light indicator (the one on the "meter" (dash) not the big one behind the glass out front....I have LEDs in all positions in the "meter" and the head light indicator sometimes goes out at idle or flickers with rpm. Sometimes it's brightness changes drastically from bright to more than 1/2 as bright. Seems to me we could but a automotive 4 cylinder spark plug wire set and change out the ends. I have white crap on the resistors in the plugs on my ign. (plug) wires too. No one answered that question or I missed it. I think some 0000 steel wool would clean them nicely but it's the ENDS that have to be clean.... Edited June 10, 2014 by dna9656 more info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorback Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share #152 Posted June 10, 2014 What's a "RR"? R (something) Rectifier? I'm having similar issues with the head light indicator (the one on the "meter" (dash) not the big one behind the glass out front....I have LEDs in all positions in the "meter" and the head light indicator sometimes goes out at idle or flickers with rpm. Sometimes it's brightness changes drastically from bright to more than 1/2 as bright. Seems to me we could but a automotive 4 cylinder spark plug wire set and change out the ends. I have white crap on the resistors in the plugs on my ign. (plug) wires too. No one answered that question or I missed it. I think some 0000 steel wool would clean them nicely but it's the ENDS that have to be clean.... Rectifier/Regulator - changes (rectifies) the AC voltage generated by the stator to DC voltage and regulates the output at about 14.5v to charge the battery and power the electrical system. Can't use normal auto plug wires as most these days are suppression type ( built in resistance). That won't jive well with our resistor plug caps. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dna9656 Posted June 10, 2014 Share #153 Posted June 10, 2014 Rectifier/Regulator - changes (rectifies) the AC voltage generated by the stator to DC voltage and regulates the output at about 14.5v to charge the battery and power the electrical system. Can't use normal auto plug wires as most these days are suppression type ( built in resistance). That won't jive well with our resistor plug caps. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I have 2 Accell Ign. wires on my bike, the kind you make up your own set for your car....I see they are suppression type; back to the parts store... Thanks! It's been a while since I had to think of such things... AND I agree, there is a huge amount of tech knowledge here on the forum, great people, good times but it's frustrating to wait on responses. I just try to remember that everyone has a life and I'm not the center of them...dangit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorback Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share #154 Posted June 10, 2014 AND I agree, there is a huge amount of tech knowledge here on the forum, great people, good times but it's frustrating to wait on responses. I just try to remember that everyone has a life and I'm not the center of them...dangit! I agree 100%. Great help around here. The waiting game can be nerve wracking at times, but it's worth the wait. 😁 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorback Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share #155 Posted June 11, 2014 To verify that a bad connection at the ground wires is your only problem, I would take a 16-18 gauge (or heavier) jumper and connect it between the battery negative and the RR regulator black leads. Then start the bike and see if it's a bit better. It may not cure the problem completely because of the voltage drop across the jumper, but it should help. And quicker for diagnostics, considering my previous/most recent findings on the voltage drop. I did the bypass with a 14 ga wire this morning before I left for work. I think it caused my in dash voltmeter to malfunction. It seems stuck on 14-ish volts now. It pretty well stayed on 14 volts for the entire flight...errr....commute to work. I never saw a single indication of erratic tach behavior, nor did i experience any hiccup that i could detect. I still had smooth unwavering power on my final approach. I was all smiles as I taxied to my.... I mean parked the Blue Angel... dang it!... I mean blue Venture. Not to slight anyone, as everyone has been great help, but I'll quote a few of you here: Well even on a healthy 1300 with the electric antidives you will see a slight dip on voltmeter with brakes on...factor in a bad charging system or connections and it gets worse. You are seeing voltage dips as you go down the road too...are the brake lights coming on for no reason? When at a stop in traffic with brake on, you are running the brakelights (stock 2 bulbs)plus the antidive solenoids (86-93) in the forks...so it will drop but usually to battery voltage. Yep, this is now the current behavior, only a slight dip in voltage, to about 12.5-ish volts It is still my opinion that you need to solve the charging issue before delving into any other issues. A weak or intermittent charging system does many weird things. Since you have a 2nd regulator on, I agree with the bad connection somewhere. We need to solve the problem with the fluctuating battery voltage before we worry about an ignition problem---just watch your voltmeter move all around. The voltmeter shouldn't move at all when you are driving along, and it should be just about at the line that indicates 14V. Frank D. Yep, you’ve both been right on this all along Been following this thread...very good responses. But I'm still confused. In your last post it "seems" like there is a charging problem...but that has been checked, right?. Meanwhile, The hesitation sounds like a cutout or a short within a system wire that is powering or interfering with the computer or the spark....since it effects both the engine running and the tach. So two problems. Question for the brain trust: What might be common to the two events as I've described? david Yep, one causing the other, as a couple different folks on here suspected. Early on I kept suspecting a system voltage issue more than a component failure. I think i'll improve the connection of the bypass wire at the regulator plug for now, making it more permanent. As of now, I crammed it into the back of the RR plug on the RR side and zip-tied it to the rest of the plug wire bundle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted June 11, 2014 Share #156 Posted June 11, 2014 Glad to hear that you are close to having it licked. I would still do the testing to find the bad connection in that ground wire and fix it right. Even if that right is cutting out the connector and soldering all of the wires together. Go back to posts #121 and #123. It is a good feeling to get an electrical gremlin under your boot..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorback Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share #157 Posted June 11, 2014 Glad to hear that you are close to having it licked. I would still do the testing to find the bad connection in that ground wire and fix it right. Even if that right is cutting out the connector and soldering all of the wires together. Go back to posts #121 and #123. It is a good feeling to get an electrical gremlin under your boot..... Agreed, on all points. It'll just take a little more down time to finish up the hunt for the actual bad connection. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorback Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share #158 Posted June 11, 2014 Glad to hear that you are close to having it licked. I would still do the testing to find the bad connection in that ground wire and fix it right. Even if that right is cutting out the connector and soldering all of the wires together. I'm actually trying to figure out how to correctly get the female blade connections out of the plug so that I might replace them and re-insert into the plastic connector. I'd love to preserve that connector if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted June 11, 2014 Share #159 Posted June 11, 2014 I'm actually trying to figure out how to correctly get the female blade connections out of the plug so that I might replace them and re-insert into the plastic connector. I'd love to preserve that connector if possible. If you are referring to the 3 pin plug between the R/R and harness, I have them available. http://www.venturerider.org/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=3752&title=1st-gen-stator-connector-replacement&cat=33 Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil86 Posted June 11, 2014 Share #160 Posted June 11, 2014 Its possible the variance you had on the red wire on either side of the RR plug was not using the same ground point for each test...ie higher reading vs battery ground then the connector black due to the harness issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorback Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share #161 Posted June 11, 2014 Its possible the variance you had on the red wire on either side of the RR plug was not using the same ground point for each test...ie higher reading vs battery ground then the connector black due to the harness issue. sounds right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorback Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share #162 Posted June 11, 2014 If you are referring to the 3 pin plug between the R/R and harness, I have them available. http://www.venturerider.org/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=3752&title=1st-gen-stator-connector-replacement&cat=33 Gary The other one, 6 pin (5 really, 2 Rd, 2Blk, 1 Br). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankd Posted June 11, 2014 Share #163 Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) I agree with Flyin Fool, now that you know exactly what the problem is, you can concentrate on finding it. What I probably would do next would be to: 1) Unplug the voltage regulator output leads (red, black and brown wires). 2) Connect a jumper from the bike side of the RR plug black lead(s) to 1 pin of a spare car headlight. Then from the other pin on the car headlight connect the positive lead of your battery charger. Connect the negative lead to the bike chassis ground. Turn on the battery charger and the headlight should light. What you have done here is to cause a couple of amps of current to flow through the black wires to where they are connected to the chassis. 3) Then I'd take my DC clamp-on ammeter and follow the path of the current to where the black leads are terminated. I suspect you'll find the connections behind the headlight. You may find a connection that has been hot and is discolored. An infra-red thermometer combined with step 2 above may also help find the dirty/loose connection. Is there a chance you could borrow a clamp on DC ammeter from some where? You also could take your digital meter and measure the voltage where the jumper is connected to the RR black wires...you should read a small DC voltage (connect the meter common to bike chassis). Then you could check all the black leads behind the headlight and see what you read. Edited June 11, 2014 by frankd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorback Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share #164 Posted June 11, 2014 I agree with Flyin Fool, now that you know exactly what the problem is, you can concentrate on finding it. What I probably would do next would be to: 1) Unplug the voltage regulator output leads (red, black and brown wires). 2) Connect a jumper from the bike side of the RR plug black lead(s) to 1 pin of a spare car headlight. Then from the other pin on the car headlight connect the positive lead of your battery charger. Connect the negative lead to the bike chassis ground. Turn on the battery charger and the headlight should light. What you have done here is to cause a couple of amps of current to flow through the black wires to where they are connected to the chassis. 3) Then I'd take my DC clamp-on ammeter and follow the path of the current to where the black leads are terminated. I suspect you'll find the connections behind the headlight. You may find a connection that has been hot and is discolored. An infra-red thermometer combined with step 2 above may also help find the dirty/loose connection. Is there a chance you could borrow a clamp on DC ammeter from some where? You also could take your digital meter and measure the voltage where the jumper is connected to the RR black wires...you should read a small DC voltage (connect the meter common to bike chassis). Then you could check all the black leads behind the headlight and see what you read. I have a clamp-on meter somewhere around here. I shall tear into it sometime this weekend between the honey-do's Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted June 11, 2014 Share #165 Posted June 11, 2014 The other one, 6 pin (5 really, 2 Rd, 2Blk, 1 Br). I have that one also. Same price. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted June 12, 2014 Share #166 Posted June 12, 2014 I have a clamp-on meter somewhere around here. I shall tear into it sometime this weekend between the honey-do's Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Not just any clamp on meter, most clamp ons will only read AC Amps. You need one specifically made for DC Amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorback Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share #167 Posted June 12, 2014 I was wondering if it was going to be that way. Mine probably doesn't do DC, but no might be able to to borrow one from work, if we have more than one. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorback Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share #168 Posted June 12, 2014 I think i may have electrical gremlins. maybe TCI, maybe coils or wires. 8. checked & cleaned connectors in vicinity of rear shock damper/fuel pump. I did that because I also have a malfunctioning gear position indicator. It wants to indicate 4th gear more than anything. This problem also went away. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyinfool Posted June 12, 2014 Share #169 Posted June 12, 2014 Now you understand why I kept steering you back to solving the charging issue before messing with anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorback Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share #170 Posted June 12, 2014 Now you understand why I kept steering you back to solving the charging issue before messing with anything else. Absolutely. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankd Posted June 12, 2014 Share #171 Posted June 12, 2014 If you can't get a DC clamp on ammeter, maybe you could borrow a wire tracer similar to one of these..... https://www.google.com/search?q=wire+tracers&tbm=isch&imgil=UFBdXzXtbdZUNM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcT3a3Q_sf3-gc2zSCQEQvHkzxnshNwiI1cMVRcNVg9aKyjTdn4lHQ%253B640%253B480%253BE2C8DZlMqzmcGM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.burntechshop.com%25252Fcable-wire-tracer-tracker-tone-probe-p-213.html&source=iu&usg=__xza1InsZ2pSGxIK0fTqWsvO2B2s%3D&sa=X&ei=FK-ZU9LmFM6cyAT8o4D4Cg&sqi=2&ved=0CD8Q9QEwAQ&biw=1366&bih=638#facrc=_&imgrc=UFBdXzXtbdZUNM%253A%3BE2C8DZlMqzmcGM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.burntechshop.com%252Fimages%252Fms6812a.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.burntechshop.com%252Fcable-wire-tracer-tracker-tone-probe-p-213.html%3B640%3B480 Then basically do the same procedure, except instead of the charger and headlight, you use the tracer connected to the black RR leads (bike side) and chassis ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonm. Posted June 15, 2014 Share #172 Posted June 15, 2014 the bad ground issue is common on many bikes. The Vision guys have done a direct ground from the RR black to frame ground. But still, me and the manual says 23K for spark plug/cap combo is too much. FYI- your on your way to cracked coils. All my caps read 10k like the manual states and the resistor spark plugs approx 5k. Your wire should be copper core non-resistor type. thus 15k total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil86 Posted June 15, 2014 Share #173 Posted June 15, 2014 I think he measured from the cap to ground...ie cap, wire, secondary coil winding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorback Posted June 15, 2014 Author Share #174 Posted June 15, 2014 I think he measured from the cap to ground...ie cap, wire, secondary coil winding? Correct, my 23k-ish reading was always through the coil secondary. All checks (cap, wire, coil primary, secondary, etc) are within spec. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KISA Posted June 16, 2014 Share #175 Posted June 16, 2014 Pickup coil can cause such failure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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