kbert777 Posted January 12, 2008 Share #1 Posted January 12, 2008 I had a customer come into the shop yesterday with a Harborfreight trailer I haven't seen before: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/02500-02599/02575.gif The dimensions are almost identical to the standard, red powder-coated, 12" and 8" wheel kits: Bed dimensions: 40" x 50"; Weight capacity: 1400 lbs; Gross vehicle weight: 1618 lbs; Receiver size: 1-7/8"; Tongue level height: 14"; Overall dimensions: 87-1/2"L x 52-3/4"W x 22-3/4"H But there are a few differences: It's powder-coated in black and not in the tacky red The diamond plate covers are included There are two extra stringers toward the hitch, stabilizing the platformI guess with a few minor modifications, this would make a perfect cargo trailer. Just add a roof-top carrier box, remove the leafs down to the main spring leaf and flip the axle (easy done as it is set-up for 0º Camber and 0 toe-in). The fenders should still be in an acceptable position with moderate loading. I would also recommend replacing the supplied, Chinese bearings and seals with something more suitable for highway use, even with proper lubrication and maintenance the life expectancy seems rather short. Also, don't expect too much from the quality of the powder-coat. It still looks better then the red stuff but is by no means perfect. Here is the link, unfortunately it does no seem to be a store item, but a special order catalog or Internet item only: http://www.harborfreight.com:80/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=2575 This link will give you any idea about assembly: http://www.harborfreight.com/manuals/2000-2999/2575.pdf As of today the price of the trailer is listed as $249.99 plus overweight shipping, not sure if you have to pay shipping if you order it in a physical store. I actually got a shipping quote of around $60. Hope this helps, Klaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eck Posted January 13, 2008 Share #2 Posted January 13, 2008 I like it better than the red one... good info..thanks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted January 13, 2008 Share #3 Posted January 13, 2008 Now if we could locate a black cargo box like those used on the Piggy Backer it would be a winnner..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7Goose Posted January 14, 2008 Share #4 Posted January 14, 2008 That trailer is actually a significant upgrade over the lowest cost red one that I use as a utility trailer. It certainly looks better, and you do get more, but it is also over twice the cost. For what I use it for, I have been very happy with my ugly little red one ($100 on sale). Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Rush Posted January 14, 2008 Share #5 Posted January 14, 2008 At the risk of drawing lots of heat I beg to differ....... :smile5: Weight in the name of the game. The old style Harbor Freight trailer is plenty sturdy to serve as a cargo trailer foundation without adding a lot of dead weight. :rolleyes: To date I've built four cargo trailers and have spent considerable time pondering the off-sets of size, weight and center of gravety. It all boils down to this..... The lighter and lower to the ground a trailer can be built the safer it is to pull.... :whistling: This new Harbor Freight trailer is a full 88 pounds heavier then the lighter duty version. Any way you cut it folks that is a lot of extra weight your bike's brakes are going to be asked to stop. It's also a lot of weight pushing you in tight corners and that much less real cargo you can saftely haul... Some will argue that the flat bed is a perfect place to mount the car-top carrier. Forgive me but I've never seen anyone having to bold a piece of diamond plate or plywood on their vehicle's roof rack to support the carrier. Maybe the builders did know what they were doing there...... :fireman: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbert777 Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share #6 Posted January 15, 2008 This new Harbor Freight trailer is a full 88 pounds heavier then the lighter duty version. Any way you cut it folks that is a lot of extra weight your bike's brakes are going to be asked to stop. It's also a lot of weight pushing you in tight corners and that much less real cargo you can safely haul... No idea where you got these numbers, but the original red trailer with 12" tires is listed at 152 lbs dry weight, the black one with the cover is listed at 195 lbs dry weight. So that makes a difference of 43 lbs, I assume which is mostly made up by the diamond plate and extra stringers. I did not check on the 8" wheel trailer, as I personally feel it's not fit for highway travel, but I don't think there will be much difference in weight. I tried reproducing your 88 lbs figure but couldn't. The lighter and lower to the ground a trailer can be built the safer it is to pull.... No doubt about this, trying to keep the weight down and getting the trailer low to the ground will definitely make the trailer tow much nicer and give you a bigger safety margin on the brakes. I am also a firm believer that making the trailer narrow with a longer tongue will help with tracking and control. Some will argue that the flat bed is a perfect place to mount the car-top carrier. Forgive me but I've never seen anyone having to bold a piece of diamond plate or plywood on their vehicle's roof rack to support the carrier. Maybe the builders did know what they were doing there...... I don't think that I ever heard the statement that a roof top carrier is mounted better on a flat deck then on an open frame. But lets talk about esthetics for a second... Yes, I am pretty sure you can slap an over sized Sears car top carrier on top of the tacky red open frame trailer an call it done, it just depends on your personal standards and style. The reason why I even posted this link is that I thought that some people might actually enjoy being able to buy a more finished trailer for a relative reasonable price. No need to paint, black goes with everything, and just very minor modifications to suspension and axle to make a great towing trailer right out of the box. A lot of people don't have access to a lot of tools and equipment to make elaborate modifications, but you can easily remove the extra leafs from the springs and flip the axle during basic assembly. The black diamond plate gives it a nice finished look and makes it easy to install the roof top carrier by just simply drilling through the platform, without the need to re-arrange the mounting position of the hardware supplied with the box. I don't think the overall trailer weight of this set-up is too far out of line, especially considering that some people pull tent trailers that weigh almost 400 lbs with their 1st and 2nd Gens. After finishing my Harborfreight trailer last year I ended up with a dry weight of around 180 lbs. I narrowed the frame; installed a swivel coupler, a retractable stand, an ice chest with plat form on the tongue; covered the platform in polished aluminum diamond plate and installed bracing to mount the box; installed light weight, rounded fenders to replace the original, heavy and boxy ones; powder coated frame, tongue and fenders; installed a Thule box; and finally added LED tail and running light plus a lighted chrome license plate frame. In retrospective I could have bought an entry level finished trailer for the same money... Klaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eck Posted January 15, 2008 Share #7 Posted January 15, 2008 but you can easily remove the extra leafs from the springs and flip the axle during basic assembly. Kbert, Please forgive my stupidity here, but Im not sure I understand what you mean by "flipping the axle during basic assembly". Could you enlighten me as to how you would do that and your reasoning on why you would do that in the first place. I know very little about building a trailer, and would like to understand your thoughts (and my options), if I ever decide to build one. You can send me a "P-email" if you wish with your answer, because I am not disagreeing with you and am not looking at starting a "disagreement post" here, but I just plain dont understand what you mean flip the axle... and do you reinstall the leaf springs after you flip the axel..? The black diamond plate gives it a nice finished look and makes it easy to install the roof top carrier by just simply drilling through the platform, without the need to re-arrange the mounting position of the hardware supplied with the box. I totally agree with you here.. I don't think the overall trailer weight of this set-up is too far out of line, especially considering that some people pull tent trailers that weigh almost 400 lbs with their 1st and 2nd Gens. I Agree here too. I narrowed the frame; How much and where did you cut it? Do you think this trailer frame can be cut down as your talking about here? In retrospective I could have bought an entry level finished trailer for the same money...Maybe this is what I should do....but I really like the feeling I get when I make something myself.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kregerdoodle Posted January 15, 2008 Share #8 Posted January 15, 2008 I found a Sears car top for sale on the side of the road, not sure if this is a good deal or not, as I have not priced them new. It is a Sears Sport 20-SV and appears to be in pretty good condition, the guy wants $150.00 for it, but like I said, I do not know what they go for new...If this is a good deal I may go ahead and pick it up... any know about these?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eck Posted January 15, 2008 Share #9 Posted January 15, 2008 I found a Sears car top for sale on the side of the road, not sure if this is a good deal or not, as I have not priced them new. It is a Sears Sport 20-SV and appears to be in pretty good condition, the guy wants $150.00 for it, but like I said, I do not know what they go for new...If this is a good deal I may go ahead and pick it up... any know about these?? Kbay, If you do a google search on "Sears Sport 20-SV" , you will see many used ones listed for around $75 to $80.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbert777 Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share #10 Posted January 15, 2008 Kbert, Please forgive my stupidity here, but Im not sure I understand what you mean by "flipping the axle during basic assembly". Could you enlighten me as to how you would do that and your reasoning on why you would do that in the first place. I know very little about building a trailer, and would like to understand your thoughts (and my options), if I ever decide to build one. You can send me a "P-email" if you wish with your answer, because I am not disagreeing with you and am not looking at starting a "disagreement post" here, but I just plain dont understand what you mean flip the axle... and do you reinstall the leaf springs after you flip the axel..? By no means a stupid question... The original Harborfreight trailer design uses a 3 leaf spring pack, 1 main leaf (with a bushing in the front and a slider in the rear) and 2 auxiliary leafs for weight capacity. The 3 leafs are held together and aligned with a spring center bolt. This bolt has a machined head portion to locate the axle below the leaf spring. The axle is centered with the center bolt and retained with 2 U-bolts and a plate on each side. This design is fairly common for trailer construction and easily modified for different purposes. The trailer tongue height is advertised at 14", which basically is too high for use as a motorcycle trailer. Ideally the trailer tongue should be almost level with a slight drop toward the trailer ball. The instrumental term here is "slight". The hitch on my 1st Gen is about 8" of the ground with the bike loaded with 2 people, but in comparison my bike sits extremely low. I solved the height problem by removing the two extra leaves of each spring, you have to remove the rivets for the stackers and remove the center bolt. After that I re-installed the spring center bolt but with the machined head sticking up instead of down. This allows the axle to be mounted on top of the leaf spring instead of below the leaf spring, just envision the axle now being in between the trailer frame and the leaf spring. I achieved a tongue height of approximately 11" with no interference to the fenders. The lead range of the trailer is reduced to about 500lbs due to removal of the extra spring leaves. This is what is referred too as "flipping the axle". I would like to add a few general comments about flipping axles: It works in the case of the Harborfreight trailer due to the fact that the axle is set-up neutral, 0º Camber and 0" Toe-in. You will not change anything by rotating the axle upside down. Heavier axles for utility trailers and travel trailers are set-up differently. The target values are at about +0.5º Camber and 1/32"-1/16" Toe-in. If you flip the axles as described they will most likely be re-aligned for tire wear and tracking. I narrowed the frame; How much and where did you cut it? Do you think this trailer frame can be cut down as your talking about here? I cut about 5" of each frame brace to reduce the width, I ended up welding the frame solid, but you can just as easy re-drill the holes for the bolts. The only problem I see with this trailer is cutting the diamond plate down to size without producing major damage to the powder-coat. You also have to narrow the axle accordingly, which involves either cutting the axle in half and welding it back together or the removal of one spindle and re-welding. For safety issues I would recommend having this done by a seasoned welder. Hope this helps, I will try to find some photos of my trailer for reference as the original post with all the detail pictures and specifications was deleted in an ill fated attempt to clean up the board. ... at least we still have enough blubber in the Watering Hole... Klaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted January 15, 2008 Share #11 Posted January 15, 2008 Hope this helps, I will try to find some photos of my trailer for reference as the original post with all the detail pictures and specifications was deleted in an ill fated attempt to clean up the board. ... at least we still have enough blubber in the Watering Hole... Klaus Klaus, here's a pic of the PiggyBacker Axle under the springs. Eck, by flipping the axle Klaus is saying to turn the axle over and place it between the frame and spring instead of below the spring. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eck Posted January 15, 2008 Share #12 Posted January 15, 2008 This allows the axle to be mounted on top of the leaf spring instead of below the leaf spring, just envision the axle now being in between the trailer frame and the leaf spring. Understood completely now....thanks!! For the life of me, I could not picture what you ment "flip the axle".. I was trying to imagine you flipping it "end for end" and gaining "something" that I could not picture...duh... This is what is referred too as "flipping the axle". I cut about 5" of each frame brace to reduce the width, I ended up welding the frame solid, but you can just as easy re-drill the holes for the bolts. The only problem I see with this trailer is cutting the diamond plate down to size without producing major damage to the powder-coat. This I already understood as how to do this part, but was not sure about the next part...cutting down the axle.. You also have to narrow the axle accordingly, which involves either cutting the axle in half and welding it back together or the removal of one spindle and re-welding. For safety issues I would recommend having this done by a seasoned welder. Hope this helps, I will try to find some photos of my trailer for reference No need to bud.,.. I understand completely what you did and how you did it now.. I used to be a state certified auto mechanic, and have some basic knowledge , but I could not see how you flipped an axle" and did not see where you cut the axle down to fit the smaller frame afterwards... I got it now though! Thanks for all your help. Same goes to you CONDOR for your input..and photo ! Thanks guys!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Swifty Posted January 15, 2008 Share #13 Posted January 15, 2008 It is a Sears Sport 20-SV and appears to be in pretty good condition, the guy wants $150.00 for it, but like I said, I do not know what they go for new...If this is a good deal I may go ahead and pick it up... any know about these?? Does it have the little flare up spoiler type curve on the lid at the rear end? That's the previous model. They've changed their mold for the 20-21 cu ft in the last year or so I think. I got the new one that doesn't have that spoiler look on the rear end part of the lid and I think I paid around $189, not sure on that...I have a buddy who keeps better track of the money I spend that I do...so $150 IS cheaper than new by a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Posted January 22, 2008 Share #14 Posted January 22, 2008 "...but the original red trailer with 12" tires is listed at 152 lbs dry weight,...I did not check on the 8" wheel trailer, as I personally feel it's not fit for highway travel, but I don't think there will be much difference in weight." The 8" tire model lists at 130 lb, meaning the tires would be 11 lb different in weight per tire. Not sure if that sounds reasonable, but if true, by the time you add a spare, the difference in weight just from switching tires between 8" and 12" is 33 lb. Regarding 8" hiway trailer tires, I've used them for years without mishap on a single MC hauling trailer (that I tow behind the car). I used the small tires with some trepidation (no prior experience with them at that point) because they allowed the tilt-bed trailer to sit lower. Height doesn't matter if I put a quad on it, but when loading something the size and weight of a Venture you want to keep the loading angle down! The tires are hiway rated, 590 lb each, so I went with it. It must have been about 10 years ago that I built that trailer and it's been great. I've hauled my 550 lb Virago and 600 lb quad all over the place, took my Venture 750 miles to Hume Lake in the Sierras, and my Dad hauled his Kawi Voyager on it. It's been behind a variety of cars from a Camry to a 3/4 ton Chevy. Not one problem, and I've gone Interstate speeds with it. I replaced the tires a year ago and this time got some 8-inchers that were slightly wider with a little higher load rating because the big bikes are pushing the load limit of the others. If they can haul an 800 lb bike on a 250 lb trailer, these tires are more than adequate for a 400 lb loaded MC cargo trailer. Some people just aren't comfortable with the "smallness" of these tires and it makes them feel better to run the bigger ones. That's OK, use what you like! Just know that the 8" are perfectly suited to the job and offer height and weight benefits. Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tx2sturgis Posted January 22, 2008 Share #15 Posted January 22, 2008 ............If they can haul an 800 lb bike on a 250 lb trailer, these tires are more than adequate for a 400 lb loaded MC cargo trailer. Some people just aren't comfortable with the "smallness" of these tires and it makes them feel better to run the bigger ones. That's OK, use what you like! Just know that the 8" are perfectly suited to the job and offer height and weight benefits. Jeremy My only concern might be the faster rotational speed of the smaller tires, causing increased wear, higher temps, and possibly more problems with the bearings. If they are timken style roller bearings, they will be fine, (assuming they are properly packed and torqued) since they can easily handle the higher speeds. But some cheapo bearings find their way into some of these trailers, and the last thing you want on a trailer your pulling with a motorcycle is to lose a bearing about the time your on a high speed sweeper or high mountain pass. A seriously wobbling and out of control 1000 pound trailer and cargo might only be a major inconvenience when being pulled with your average 4500 pound SUV. But a wobbling trailer that weighs 300-400 lbs could cause a complete loss of control to the rider of an 800 lb bike, especially if that rider is on a downhill grade with a curve, and trying to slow that trailer before he hits the next turn. We have all seen abandoned trailers parked alongside the roadway. Nearly all failures with trailers involve either tire flats or bearings overheating...usually due to poor maintenance. Bigger tires and wheels DO have some safety advantages, not just cosmetic ones. But you are correct, they do weigh more, and may cause more air drag...so its a matter of rider choice, and several trailer manufacturers know this, and provide some options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7Goose Posted January 22, 2008 Share #16 Posted January 22, 2008 Here is a picture of my ugly little red utility trailer in use. Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tx2sturgis Posted January 23, 2008 Share #17 Posted January 23, 2008 Hey I ran across this website while responding to an article on another forum. My little cargo trailer uses torsion axles, and I highly recommend them. Here is a way for the trailer builders on here to put a nice axle under their home-made or harbor freight trailer. They come in 425lb and 550lb sizes for our use. http://www.etrailerpart.com/halftorsionaxles.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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