masterofyard Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share #51 Posted October 10, 2011 To tell you the truth..I didn't count, I took out the plug...made sure the was no blockage...then put them back in with the two turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkuhr Posted October 10, 2011 Share #52 Posted October 10, 2011 After reread, 1 thing I do not see mentioned is checking for vacum leaks. Does the '88 have YICS, anybody? If so remove it and plug the ports. Also suggest check all rubber plugs/hoses for sealing. Make sure when carbs are out they are exactly flat/ inline with each other while reassembling the rack. Then make sure there is no pinch/wrinkle in the manifold boot during rack install. Is the little o-ring behind the diaphram cover present? I think I would screw the idle screws about 2 more turns out (4 total). Install sync gage/manometer on all 4 ports, and looks for gage to respond during cranking/starting (making sure vacum present). If no vacum, could be waisting money on another carbs set, as the problem could be that the valves are not closing for multiple reasons, and would need to be fixed prior to any carbs working. Other problems for poor running could also be fuel and ignition related, Just because PO said has not run for 1 month, what was reason quit? Could be anything. What do plugs look like? As was stated above many suggestions have been made without response of results. This just leaves us to throw wild suggestions out. It would be very helpfull for others to help you, if you could go back over the above suggestions and indicate weither or not you completed the advised suggestion and the result of such. I think you will be amased how quickly to problem can be narrowed down then. I previously recommended to do a float level check. Although not normally an issue unless messed with by someone, if floats are set to high, you are already running very rich with choke, and any throttle will flood the cylinders (stall). Now with carbs back on this check can still be completed on the bike, just a little difficult to get to the drain nipples-but doable with needle nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted October 10, 2011 Share #53 Posted October 10, 2011 After reread, 1 thing I do not see mentioned is checking for vacum leaks. Does the '88 have YICS, anybody? If so remove it and plug the ports. No YICS system on an 88, last year for that was 85 I think. Compression check on cylinders may be helpful, will obviously be a cold reading, but they should be near equal. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted October 10, 2011 Share #54 Posted October 10, 2011 I previously recommended to do a float level check. Although not normally an issue unless messed with by someone, if floats are set to high, you are already running very rich with choke, and any throttle will flood the cylinders (stall). Now with carbs back on this check can still be completed on the bike, just a little difficult to get to the drain nipples-but doable with needle nose. To check the float level on the bike, put it on center stand first. Get a piece of clear vinyl tubing that will just fit over the four rubber tubes that come out of rear of carb and pass through the lower cross brace. (about 1/4" dia, maybe 5/16") Turn the key on to make sure fuel pump fills carb bowls completely. Repeat until fuel pump no longer clicks. (2 or 3 times maybe). Turn key off. One at a time put clear tube over black tube and open the bowl drain screw. Hold the clear tube so top is above the top of carb. Fuel should fill the clear tube to about the center line of the diaphragm cavity. Close drain screw and check other three carbs. Check service manual for more accurate height setting, but this is close. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterofyard Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share #55 Posted October 10, 2011 Let me go back to the biginning. I purchased the bike with it only running on choke. Took the carbs off, cleaned them and put them back on. The bike would run off choke and idle. When I tried to give it throttle it would stall out. I replaces the fuel filter and checked for vacuum leaks. It was suggested to remove brass plugs and adjust the idle mixture screws. I did that. Now the bike won't start at all. When I turn the key on, the fuel pump RNA for a few seconds then shuts down. I can turn off the key and back on, it runs for a second then shuts down. I am at a loss now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted October 10, 2011 Share #56 Posted October 10, 2011 Let me go back to the biginning. I purchased the bike with it only running on choke. Took the carbs off, cleaned them and put them back on. The bike would run off choke and idle. When I tried to give it throttle it would stall out. I replaces the fuel filter and checked for vacuum leaks. It was suggested to remove brass plugs and adjust the idle mixture screws. I did that. Now the bike won't start at all. When I turn the key on, the fuel pump RNA for a few seconds then shuts down. I can turn off the key and back on, it runs for a second then shuts down. I am at a loss now. Fuel pump response is normal, it will only run (click) for 4 seconds without a spark signal from the #2 TCI coil output. This is a safety circuit to shut off fuel flow in case of wreck. Sometimes you need to cycle key a couple of times to fill bowls. How fresh is gas? Check fuel flow at filter by disconnecting line & turning key on. There is another filter in the gas tank that could be clogged, (it has happened.) Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmaleney Posted October 10, 2011 Share #57 Posted October 10, 2011 The bike will run on the 84rs, fire the motor up, let run on choke/no choke whatever, get the motor hot, check for spark on all 4 plugs, run it for as long as it takes for the fan to kick in, at this stage youre 88 carbs should run on the hot motor, from there check the motor is runing on all 4, if not try this, pull the plug from whatever is not fireing, let the plug wire hang a bit away from the plug, you will hear it spark , this will increase the spark and help that carb to start working , if it fires after a while or even starts to pop that will tell you that all is not as clean as it should be, if you can get to fire on all 4 you MAY be able to balance the carbs at that stage, if you can this will help you a lot as the motor may clean up and run fine, or the carbs may have to be done over again, let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterofyard Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share #58 Posted October 10, 2011 Just got home from work and reset the idle mixture screws to turning them 4 times out. The bike actually started. I was able to play a little with the mixture screws and got it to run off of choke. It still wont let me open the throttle at all...it stalls out as soon as I touch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterofyard Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share #59 Posted October 13, 2011 ok guys, this is where I am at, I just put another set of carbs on the bike. The bike wants to start but wont stay running. I can play with the throttle and get it to run for a second then shuts down. I am going to get new plugs to put onto the bike. Any other suggestions that I should do? These carbs are used and I was told they were drained after being taken off of the donor bike. They have been off of the bike for about 2 months. I guess its like i am starting all over again and I would like to go step by step and get it right. All help is greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcarl Posted October 13, 2011 Share #60 Posted October 13, 2011 Just a stupid thought I suppose, but is your exhaust clear, or maybe it's blocked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterofyard Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share #61 Posted October 13, 2011 Exhaust is clear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkuhr Posted October 13, 2011 Share #62 Posted October 13, 2011 I think the first thing to try would to perform a commpression check on all 4 cylinders. This is primarly to prove that your valves are closing correctly, to ensure each cylinder can create enough vacum to draw fuel in thru the carbs. Can maybe get compression tester from auto parts loan program? I do remember it is a non-standard metric thread, but adapter usually comes with it. Also inspect spark plugs while they are out for how they have been running. Tag each one to keep track of the cylinder it was in. If real low pressure readings, don't fret-as it likely just needs valve shim adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Posted October 13, 2011 Share #63 Posted October 13, 2011 You've tried different choke settings? Almost sounds like plugged pilot circuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterofyard Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share #64 Posted October 13, 2011 My original problem was that the bike would only run on full choke. I took the carbs off..cleaned them up then pit them back on. The previous owner had his bike out in the weather uncovered and not sure how long it sat without being started. After opening the carbs..some of them had water and rust on them. I cleaned them as best as I could..and put them back on the bike. When I started it, I could tAke it off of choke and the bike ran but I couldn't give it any throttle. I tried to adjust it from suggestions in this thread, now the bike wouldn't start. A friend had a set off of an 83. Theses have been off of the bike for a out 2 months. I put them on. The bike wants to star but keeps stAlling out. I am able to give it throttle, it revs a little then stalls out. Before I start tearing things apart, I am going to put fresh plugs in tomorrow morning, but wants suggestions from the experts that have been trying to help me on what to do first so theses carbs don't get screwed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyHorse Posted October 14, 2011 Share #65 Posted October 14, 2011 Are your diaphrams in right? Are they the right ones for your bike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterofyard Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share #66 Posted October 14, 2011 Diaphragms were never touched Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmaleney Posted October 14, 2011 Share #67 Posted October 14, 2011 Did you check for spark, do not hook the vac tube going to #2 carb, just plug the nipple on the carb for now, It's strange the motor is doing the very same thing with different carbs, when it fire's are the same exhaust pipes hot as with the 88 carbs, tell us the colour of the old spark plug's black, white, tan or are they wet, check for water in the engine oil, try to keep the motor runing on a small amount of easy start or a DROP or two of gas down the carbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterofyard Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share #68 Posted October 14, 2011 I go the bike to start. I do have spark and vacuum. I'm changing the plugs now. I have a feeling that these new carbs are gummed up. Does anyone know of what I can possibly do to ungum then without opening them up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterofyard Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share #69 Posted October 15, 2011 okay, replaced the plugs, put the carbs back on and got the bike to start. Was running very rich. I tried to adjust the air fuel mixture, didnt work. I pulled the carbs off and found a small tear under the clamp of the boots on 2 cylinders. It seems, depending in how the carbs sat and the air box was on, the tear would open and cause a vacuum leak. I found some boots on ebay and am awaiting them to be delivered. I will check back after I install them with an update. Thanks again for all the input. I hope this solves my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterofyard Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share #70 Posted October 19, 2011 Just installed the new manifold boots. Bike started and is running off of choke. Now the new problems. The bike will take throttle, but a little slow running up. If I restrict the air flow at the front of the air box, seems to take throttle quicker and runs a little smoother. I think its running a little rich also. Now that I have the bike running, I noticed when I turn the key on, the LCD screen goes through its checks. When i start the bike, the warning light stays on, and most of the symbols on the screen stays on too, also, the tach is not working. Can any of this be tied together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkuhr Posted October 19, 2011 Share #71 Posted October 19, 2011 Just installed the new manifold boots. Bike started and is running off of choke. Now the new problems. The bike will take throttle, but a little slow running up. If I restrict the air flow at the front of the air box, seems to take throttle quicker and runs a little smoother. I think its running a little rich also. Now that I have the bike running, I noticed when I turn the key on, the LCD screen goes through its checks. When i start the bike, the warning light stays on, and most of the symbols on the screen stays on too, also, the tach is not working. Can any of this be tied together? I would suspect still a vacum leak preventing diaphrams from responding quickly. During idle, spray start fluid (speed up) or carb cleaner (slow down), and listen for change of rpm under carbs, rubber hoses, nipple caps.... to pinpoint a vacum leak. Most segments of LCD screen (4) are related to lighting failure monitors, (headlight High&low, and tail light and brake light) and have a tendency to go bad internal the lcd screen (CMS) itself. Usually cold solder joints that can be repaired with CMS removal. Search for CMS repair or CMU repair. Also a battery monitor segement that needs a battery bypass resistor installed if running a gel cell type battery, vs old wet cell type. Tach operates off the #2 ignition coil, and usually indicates #2 coil is not receiving a signal, and therefore not firing (possible engine preformance problem). Usually caused by corrosion and bad diodes internal the TCI. There is a repair for the TCI and replace diodes, search for TCI repair, but remember-it is about 28 years old. Another option is to upgrade to a new type of ignition control box made by ingitech for about $250 some of us are running. Search for ingitech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Venturous Posted October 19, 2011 Share #72 Posted October 19, 2011 Yep tach runs off of number 2 cylinder. You may have tci problems. Believe me they get annoying too. A temp reading gun is good to have also. Getting a non running bike is annoying, Then when you factor in the the Venture has the most difficult carbs to disassemble and reassemble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmaleney Posted October 20, 2011 Share #73 Posted October 20, 2011 You can not get the 83 carbs to work right on the 88 tci, best you can do is let the bike idle 900 to 1200 rpm and try to find out what it is about the motor you are not seeing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted October 20, 2011 Share #74 Posted October 20, 2011 You can not get the 83 carbs to work right on the 88 tci, best you can do is let the bike idle 900 to 1200 rpm and try to find out what it is about the motor you are not seeing Why will the 83 carbs not work at low end on an 88 TCI? All that is required is to keep vacuum line on intake boot & plug the vacuum port above the #2 carb butterfly on the 83 carbs. I have done this and it will work fine. The 83 carbs are 34mm compared to 86 & up being 35mm. Slight difference in jetting. These differences will hurt high rpm performance maybe 5%, but the motor should perform fine in low to mid ranges. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yammer Dan Posted October 20, 2011 Share #75 Posted October 20, 2011 I'm confused. Something ain't coming out here. Even with TCI crapping out it should run better than that. Hard to say without hearing seeing it. Sound clip help?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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