water in gear oil

[ron07rsv]

I have noticed when changing my final drive oil that it has been milky, is this normal for these bikes? The last 2 rides have been almost nothing but hard rain for at least 100 miles. Just wondering if there is a bad seal or is this normal, I have no oil leaking, but I know water will get anywhere.

[V7Goose]

That is absolutely NOT normal! I have ridden for days in unrelenting frog stranglers on this bike, and I have never had any indication of what you describe. I would take your bike to the dealer and have the problem checked under warranty. Make certain that they include the details in the computer on your trouble ticket, and KEEP a copy in your records as proof you reported it in case you have trouble down the road after the warranty is expired.

Goose

[BuddyRich]

Is the cap on the unit ? I don't see how it would get water in it unless it was totally submerged to the point where the breather cap was under water. Would take to the dealer to have it fixed for sure.

[ron07rsv]

That is absolutely NOT normal! I have ridden for days in unrelenting frog stranglers on this bike, and I have never had any indication of what you describe. I would take your bike to the dealer and have the problem checked under warranty. Make certain that they include the details in the computer on your trouble ticket, and KEEP a copy in your records as proof you reported it in case you have trouble down the road after the warranty is expired.

Goose

I will get it checked, called dealer before asking this question and they said it was normal to get some water in it. This is why I asked the ones that ride them, thanks.

[ron07rsv]

Is the cap on the unit ? I don't see how it would get water in it unless it was totally submerged to the point where the breather cap was under water. Would take to the dealer to have it fixed for sure.

Yes,the cap is on it. When I first bought the bike the speedometer cable was leaking oil, but it was fixed by dealer. I will take alls advice and take it in, thnaks

[KiteSquid]

Is the cap on the unit ? I don't see how it would get water in it unless it was totally submerged to the point where the breather cap was under water. Would take to the dealer to have it fixed for sure.

 

there are a couple of seals that if dammaged would allow water to get in the final drive.

[BradT]

Is it really Milkey or is there particles of metal in the oil that make it look milky.

 

When I change mine it always looks a little shiney which it could be called milky.

 

Just a different look at what you may be seeing ?

 

Brad

[LilBeaver]

I will get it checked, called dealer before asking this question and they said it was normal to get some water in it. This is why I asked the ones that ride them, thanks.

 

 

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!? That is sad... Although I suppose I cannot say that I am all that surprised.

[strejea]

water in final drive

[Condor]

I have noticed when changing my final drive oil that it has been milky, is this normal for these bikes? The last 2 rides have been almost nothing but hard rain for at least 100 miles. Just wondering if there is a bad seal or is this normal, I have no oil leaking, but I know water will get anywhere.

 

How often are you servicing the final. Sounds like you're doing it everytime you change the engine oil?? Or did you get the milky lube just once after running a couple of years?? (Personally I only change out the final lube every couple of years.) If it was just once it might be that you're in a very humid area and the finals do breath. Air expands when hot from running or just sitting in the sun, and then sucks in moist air as it cools. The moisture will be absorbed into the lube as it sits, and doesn't go away the next time the final heats up again. It's a cycle. Eventually the lube will become cloudy from the moisture in the air. So it might be the humidity in your area that's doing it.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I hate to think that the internals of the final drive are exposed to standing water....rust would NOT be a good thing on those gears!

 

I would assume that if you ride it long enough to heat up the drive to full temperature, it should help in 'boiling off' the moisture if it was just naturally occuring from the humidity down your way. But if you have a leak on that speed sensor, it could accumulate water in the bottom of the drive, under the oil that is not evaporated with use.

 

Are most of your rides short trips? Short tripping the bike, especially in a normally humid area, will add moisture that never gets removed.

 

[Condor]

I hate to think that the internals of the final drive are exposed to standing water....rust would NOT be a good thing on those gears!

 

I would assume that if you ride it long enough to heat up the drive to full temperature, it should help in 'boiling off' the moisture if it was just naturally occuring from the humidity down your way. But if you have a leak on that speed sensor, it could accumulate water in the bottom of the drive, under the oil that is not evaporated with use.

 

Are most of your rides short trips? Short tripping the bike, especially in a normally humid area, will add moisture that never gets removed.

 

 

I agree with the leak in the sensor, but I really doubt the final temps will get up to the point that the absorbed moisture will boil off......

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I agree with the leak in the sensor, but I really doubt the final temps will get up to the point that the absorbed moisture will boil off......

 

Since that rear drive gets up around 200 degrees or more, in the summer anyway, small amounts of naturally occuring humidity in the air, that condenses in the oil on cool-down, will be boiled off or evaporate, but large amounts probably wont.

[Condor]

Since that rear drive gets up around 200 degrees or more, in the summer anyway, small amounts of naturally occuring humidity in the air, that condenses in the oil on cool-down, will be boiled off or evaporate, but large amounts probably wont.

 

200degs.?? Man if it gets that hot we'd better start making them water cooled.... Where'd you find that info about the final?? I'm always willing to learn...

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I havent actually dipped it with a thermometer, but since nearly all rear diffs that use GL-4 or GL-5 work at around 150 to 250 degrees , its safe to assume its in that range, certainly hotter in the summer after an hour on the road. I have reached back there and felt it after an hour of highway travel at 75 mph, on a hot summer day, and I can tell you its not just warm, its HOT!...especially when pulling a trailer.

 

Those gear oils are rated up to around 300-450 degrees for a reason...they get hot and have to survive high heat and pressures. If the rear diff was only getting to around 120 or so, any cheap mineral oil would do.

Edited June 2, 2010 by tx2sturgis

[Condor]

Ok, so it runs at that temp. I'll take your word for it. However, I still haven't found anything to substantiate those temps, and I've looked. What temp would it have to be for oil water mix to seperate and the water to 'boil' off.....??

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Ok, so it runs at that temp. I'll take your word for it. However, I still haven't found anything to substantiate those temps, and I've looked. What temp would it have to be for oil water mix to seperate and the water to 'boil' off.....??

 

Maybe someone has a portable IR gun and can read the housing temp, after a hard run on the interstates in 90 degree ambients or better...I will carry a pulp thermometer on the bike and try to get a reading next time. Keep in mind the housing temp will be cooler than the internal fluid temps, where the gear oil is directly cooling the very hot gears and bearings.

 

I'm using the term 'boiling' loosely (thats why I enclosed it in quotes). I'm not saying it has to reach exactly 212 degrees, but more like a near-boiling temp, where the moisture can reach a gaseous state and exit through the vent. Remember, we're not talking about ounces of water, but normally just a few drops in total, if it condenses out of the humid air. An actual leak that allows ounces of water to enter...well....I dont think normal heating of the gear lube can get rid of that....same as the engine oil when heated to operating temps will separate from small amounts of moisture as well.

 

If the gear lube was not EVER reaching those elevated temps, then the moisture that accumulates in the oil during the cooling down phase would have no where to go, and the oil in everyones rear drives would probably eventually be milky white...and maybe within a 5,000-10,000 mile drain interval.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Another thought:

 

I have heard that the shaft drives on these bikes robs about 20 horsepower...and that horsepower gets converted into heat...through power robbing gears and friction.

 

That heat has to go somewhere!

 

[KiteSquid]

do you replace the crush washer on the drain and fill plugs EVERY time you remove the plugs???

 

These are single use items.

 

I buy them in a box of 50.

[Freebird]

That's interesting. Your are exactly right, they are supposedly "one time" washers but I have never replaced one and have never had a problem. To be honest, I never thought about it but have never had a leak either. I will replace them next time. Thanks for the post.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I replace the crush washers on the engine oil drain everytime, ditto for the rear diff drain. Helps to keep the seal there from seeping oil. I didnt know you could buy them in a box of 50...probably cheaper that way!

[ron07rsv]

Is it really Milkey or is there particles of metal in the oil that make it look milky.

 

When I change mine it always looks a little shiney which it could be called milky.

 

Just a different look at what you may be seeing ?

 

Brad

I have been changing mine every time I change the oil and have only noticed this after a run in the rain.

[ron07rsv]

do you replace the crush washer on the drain and fill plugs EVERY time you remove the plugs???

 

These are single use items.

 

I buy them in a box of 50.

I will get a box and change them next time, thanks. I just think it is a seal causing this problem, droped off at dealer today and took oil with me and he changed his mind on saying that much was normal.

[gibvel]

I buy them in a box of 50.

 

And where do you get them in this quantity and at what cost?

[KiteSquid]

I replace the crush washers on the engine oil drain every time, ditto for the rear diff drain. Helps to keep the seal there from seeping oil. I didn't know you could buy them in a box of 50...probably cheaper that way!

 

 

I buy them a the auto parts store..... and it might have been a box of 25.... I dont rembmer off the top of my head and I am not at home right now.

 

I don't remember keeping the part number but look in the Dorman products Dorman Automotive Hardware catalog starting on page 42.

 

Also I changed over to Nylon seals. IIRC Dorman part nubmer 097-010, but I am not 100% sure..... It looks like 097-118 would work too but measure the plug diamater BEFRORE you buy!!!!!!!!

Edited June 3, 2010 by KiteSquid