Squidley Posted November 26, 2008 Share #1 Posted November 26, 2008 Hey 1st genners, We have a member on the site that is having a problem. He's not real good with his english and he and I have been having corrispondence. He has a 1200 Venture and like many of you, is hating the braking system. Now I know on the 1300's that they can be upgraded with R1 calipers and better rotors. I have never dug deep enough into the 1200's to know what some of you fellas have done to upgrade the brakes on these particular models. Could some of you share any knowledge on this thread here and help steer this fella in the right direction, Thanks a bunch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcarl Posted November 27, 2008 Share #2 Posted November 27, 2008 Clean up the whole system, take it all apart, master and calipers, replace all the aging brake lines with stainless lines and you're good to go. Makes a world of difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongobobny Posted November 27, 2008 Share #3 Posted November 27, 2008 Ditto to what Carl said, or swap out the front forks, then you can install the better calipers but you should also replace the master cylanders as they need more volume of oil... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yammer Dan Posted November 27, 2008 Share #4 Posted November 27, 2008 As others said a good clean well working system they aren't bad brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC Posted November 27, 2008 Share #5 Posted November 27, 2008 Just for the sake of clarification - don't these suggestions mean to swap out the MkI parts to MkII parts or are you guys referring to some different forks, calipers, and master cylinders? Seems like I've read about these suggestions on the forums before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidley Posted November 27, 2008 Author Share #6 Posted November 27, 2008 Just for the sake of clarification - don't these suggestions mean to swap out the MkI parts to MkII parts or are you guys referring to some different forks, calipers, and master cylinders? Seems like I've read about these suggestions on the forums before... Mike, They are referring to going with the '86 and up fork systems. They changed over to 4 piston calipers and better rotors on the 1300 series Ventures. Many further upgrade that by going to R1 calipers for even better responce. The MK I as they are being called had a solid type rotor face and twin piston calipers. They aren't the best setup and there isn't anything else that is interchangeable with them as far as I know. It is looking like a complete system overhaul is what is needed to help this member out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC Posted November 27, 2008 Share #7 Posted November 27, 2008 Thanks, Squid. The brakes on my '87 are one of my upcoming projects so I'm interested in this info also. I'm not familiar with the R1 calipers. Can you point me to a good reference for that info? Also, I've read about a method for changing the proportioning valve to give more stopping power to the rear brakes which is an area I'm not real satisfied with on my bike. Do you (or anyone else) have any personal experience with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcarl Posted November 27, 2008 Share #8 Posted November 27, 2008 Thanks, Squid. The brakes on my '87 are one of my upcoming projects so I'm interested in this info also. I'm not familiar with the R1 calipers. Can you point me to a good reference for that info? Also, I've read about a method for changing the proportioning valve to give more stopping power to the rear brakes which is an area I'm not real satisfied with on my bike. Do you (or anyone else) have any personal experience with that? My experience is that when I stomp on the brake pedal, the rear tire comes to a stop. The front is also helped with the pedal but not near as much and for good reason, it's the job of the handle bar lever to control the front braking. Too much there and you'll go flying forward with the bike in hot pursuit. So you need to have very good control of the front. As taught in riders' training, quickly but progressively. Also too much brake on the front will cause the front to dive (hence an anti-dive system) and when the front dives, the back end comes up. With that comes a lighter back side and a sliding back tire, but that's a different story for another night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC Posted November 27, 2008 Share #9 Posted November 27, 2008 I haven't tried that, Carl. Just used the rear brake normally but that sounds like a good objective tomorrow. The stopping just seems sluggish at the rear while the front brake works great. Maybe I should start by just rebuilding the rear to spec and re-assess afterward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dano Posted November 27, 2008 Share #10 Posted November 27, 2008 He's not real good with his english Thought you was talkin' bought me for a second there, Brad! I haven't tried that, Carl. Just used the rear brake normally but that sounds like a good objective tomorrow. The stopping just seems sluggish at the rear while the front brake works great. Maybe I should start by just rebuilding the rear to spec and re-assess afterward. My opinion(for what it's worth!), remember the front left and rear are linked. You need to go thru both, clean and restore the master and reservoir with fresh fluid in both systems. The MK1's are a PAIN to bleed the front brake after it's been drained. Make sure to pull the pistons and renew with seals, etc. There will be old "carmelized" fluid in there that you'll have to scrape out. PIA, but they work alot better after you've done this. For the board---- is it possible to replace the block on the neck with a block that has a bleeder fitting? Has it been done before? Will a MK11 fit there? Inquiring minds want to know? Thanks, Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcarl Posted November 27, 2008 Share #11 Posted November 27, 2008 On the rear brake issue: I like to feel that the pedal is solid when it is down to it's limit, there should not be a sponginess there at all. If you pump the pedal and it comes up there is air in the system and that needs to be remedied. When I bleed my rear brake, I first open the anti-dive bleeder screw, attach a hose and run it into a bottle. I then fill the resevoir, fit the plug back on (loosely) and then pump the pedal, down hard and fast and up very slowly. I'll do this for 5 or 6 pumps with the bleeder open. I then get some help to pump the pedal and I then open and close the bleeder screw. My wife, the helper, is instructed to pump the pedal up and then push with all she's got, at whch time I release the pressure with opening the screw and then I close the screw, pick my wife up from the floor, set her up straight and do it al over again. In this manner any air in the upper part of the system is forced through and down to the bleeder. This cannot be done gently, it needs to be forced. NEWS TIME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipshot Posted November 27, 2008 Share #12 Posted November 27, 2008 On the rear brake issue: I like to feel that the pedal is solid when it is down to it's limit, there should not be a sponginess there at all. If you pump the pedal and it comes up there is air in the system and that needs to be remedied. When I bleed my rear brake, I first open the anti-dive bleeder screw, attach a hose and run it into a bottle. I then fill the resevoir, fit the plug back on (loosely) and then pump the pedal, down hard and fast and up very slowly. I'll do this for 5 or 6 pumps with the bleeder open. I then get some help to pump the pedal and I then open and close the bleeder screw. My wife, the helper, is instructed to pump the pedal up and then push with all she's got, at whch time I release the pressure with opening the screw and then I close the screw, pick my wife up from the floor, set her up straight and do it al over again. In this manner any air in the upper part of the system is forced through and down to the bleeder. This cannot be done gently, it needs to be forced. NEWS TIME CARL, next time i need to bleed my brake system - - - , can i borrow your wife? no one around here, seems to GRASP the idea , of aggressive brake bleeding! lol just jt:backinmyday: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcarl Posted November 27, 2008 Share #13 Posted November 27, 2008 CARL, next time i need to bleed my brake system - - - , can i borrow your wife? no one around here, seems to GRASP the idea , of aggressive brake bleeding! lol just jt:backinmyday: Yep, no problem, she loves to travel, really enjoys the scoot, doesn't worry about me when she's gone, doesn't demand much,,, but she don't come cheap. Tip: To get someone to be aggressive, you first got to make them real mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yammer Dan Posted November 27, 2008 Share #14 Posted November 27, 2008 We could pass Carl's wife around and get something done this winter when it is too cold to ride!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidley Posted November 27, 2008 Author Share #15 Posted November 27, 2008 Thanks, Squid. The brakes on my '87 are one of my upcoming projects so I'm interested in this info also. I'm not familiar with the R1 calipers. Can you point me to a good reference for that info? Also, I've read about a method for changing the proportioning valve to give more stopping power to the rear brakes which is an area I'm not real satisfied with on my bike. Do you (or anyone else) have any personal experience with that? Mike, Here are a couple of threads on the R1 R6 calipers http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=29391&highlight=calipers http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=27170&highlight=calipers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC Posted November 27, 2008 Share #16 Posted November 27, 2008 Thanks again, Squid! Very helpful info in those links... Happy Thanksgiving to all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry-only-n7 Posted November 27, 2008 Share #17 Posted November 27, 2008 Thanks for all squid ! I've changed my brake liquid, cleaned every parts, the rotors are 8.4mm thickness (8.5mm new!!!) but I'm afraid to ride that bike with that original brake system ! Is it a good thing to separate front and rear brakes, is it a good thing to change the rotors for R1 model, I don't know and I tell Squid to put this message on line ! I buy R6 front and rear calipers but I need aluminium parts to adapt on my forks, the front and rear rotor have the same size like R1 (298mm) but is it a good idea to change ? If I change the front master cylinder for a 19mm (ZX7 or R1) with the Vmax system (2 rotors on front command) and the rear rotor only with the pedal with a 13 or 14mm master cylinder ! Is it good ? I just search a venture rider who change is 1200 venture brake system and who can tell me what he put on his bike ! "AND", if a venture rider take pics of aluminium parts to adapt R1 or R6 calipers !!!! Thanks for all ! Bikers Friendships for all ! barry-only-n7 (that name is in memory of Barry "Bazza" SHEENE, worldchampion of my first motocyclist years 75/76) Bye ! :happy34: for my bad english ! I want to improve that because I've a dream....ride in your countries in USA ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidley Posted November 27, 2008 Author Share #18 Posted November 27, 2008 Jacques, Thanks for coming on, dont worry about the english, it's just fine. The problem with your bike is that you can't put the R1 or The R6 calipers on it. The forks on the 1300cc ('86 and up US models) are a different configuration and they are the ones that will accept the different calipers. The only way to upgrade to those calipers is by swapping out the fork tubes from the triple tree. Others will chime in and we'll get you on the right path Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry-only-n7 Posted November 27, 2008 Share #19 Posted November 27, 2008 I don't understand:think:, everythings OK, the liquid new, the brake pads OK, the rotors too and the brake system is dangerous ! I'm gonna look at the mastercylinders and probably buy a stainless steel line ! barry-only-n7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidley Posted November 27, 2008 Author Share #20 Posted November 27, 2008 I don't understand:think:, everythings OK, the liquid new, the brake pads OK, the rotors too and the brake system is dangerous ! I'm gonna look at the mastercylinders and probably buy a stainless steel line ! barry-only-n7 Jacques, I know that the stainless brake lines are a big improvement to the system. I also use EBC HH brake pads as I haven't found anything better. If you haven't gone through the master cylinders I would do that. Keep in mind as it has been said that the bike has a linked braking system. The rear petal engages the rear brake caliper and the left front caliper. If you dont have that part of the system working right your loosing LOTS of your braking power. Keep us updated on your progress and we'll help you out as much as we can. Just wish across the pond wasn't so far away, wouldn't mind coming to France and help you with it and see Paris too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry-only-n7 Posted November 28, 2008 Share #21 Posted November 28, 2008 Hi ! OK Squid , I'm gonna do what you say ! And buy EBC HH ! HAPPY THANKSGIVING AT ALL ! Bikers Friendships ! barry-only-n7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry-only-n7 Posted November 28, 2008 Share #22 Posted November 28, 2008 Hi Squid ! If you want to visit France and Paris, it's when you want, my home's open ! Before live neer the Atlantic Ocean, I live neer Paris and in Paris where I'm born ! But I prefer my actual sweet town with many water around and canals where I make walk with my small boat ! In spring and winter we can eatcrayfish and fish that we fish ! When you want Brad ! Bikers Friendships ! barry-only-n7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry-only-n7 Posted November 28, 2008 Share #23 Posted November 28, 2008 Hi all ventureriders ! Is someone changing his brake venture 1200 system ! And especially with what ! I search plans to adapt other calipers ! Thanks ! Bikers Friendships ! barry-only-n7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry-only-n7 Posted November 29, 2008 Share #24 Posted November 29, 2008 Hi all ventureriders ! I change all my brakes liquid but no changing, nothing better ! Is someone changing his brake system or only calipers on venture 1200 and with what parts !!! I search plans to adapt other calipers ! Thanks at all ! Bikers Friendships at all ! barry-only-n7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidley Posted November 29, 2008 Author Share #25 Posted November 29, 2008 Hi all ventureriders ! I change all my brakes liquid but no changing, nothing better ! Is someone changing his brake system or only calipers on venture 1200 and with what parts !!! I search plans to adapt other calipers ! Thanks at all ! Bikers Friendships at all ! barry-only-n7 Jacques, Thanks for the offer in France, if we can get there, you'll be the 1st to know. I think what I would focus on with your brakes 1st is new pads and the Stainless Steel brake lines. I know that Rick H at Buckeye Performance carries the Stainless lines and I'm sure there wouldn't be a big deal to send them over the pond. If he doesn't do over seas shipping then send them to me and I'll get them to you. Make sure that all the lines are bled properly, the linked portions are a pain to bleed right as they are hooked into the anti dive system. It can be a big chore to get it all bled right. Keep us updated and we'll steer you through all this....Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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