Blowing main fuse

After finding a dead battery when starting up this spring, I had to jump my 2004 RSMV.

It started and ran fine, got it home.

Now the main fuse blows every time I try to connect the (new) battery.

Tonite while searching for similar issues, I read where you shouldn't jump from a running car.

Is this likely my problem? What damage did I do and where should I start looking?

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Thx,

Jon

Check the battery terminals from plus to minus with an ohm meter. it should be a very high resistance. If it is a low resistance unplug the Regulator and check again. If you still have a low resistance, then you have a wire that is pinched or rubbed thru and will have to track it down.

The only thing that I can think of that jumping from a running car might damage would be the RR.

i hope my call helps you find the problem jon.

keep us up to date with information, and.......come to the international rally!!

mike

Well, after pulling all the fuses it still pops the main.

After studying the wiring diagram, it seems there are only a couple of things it can be.

The regulator/rectifier, condenser, ignition switch or the wiring in between.

I unplugged the R/R and reconnected the battery, the fuse didn't pop, but then the (what I suspect is the) condenser on the L fairing began to snap, crackle and pop and spewed something all over the garage floor. Is this because the R/R wasn't connected? I'm not sure what the function of that condenser is, and it doesn't show up in any parts diagrams that I can find, but it is shown on the wiring diagram.

Is there a way to test the R/R? I get no continuity (infinite resistance) across the red and black terminals, and .7 ohms across between white terminals. The manual doesn't show any testing specs that I can find.

I have found nothing else out of the ordinary: good continuity between all the components and haven't found any shorts. The main switch seems fine, and shows continuity when on and none when off.

I'll probably just replace it and see what happens, but at $105.00 I'd feel better about it if there was a way to tell if it's bad.

The jump start seems to be the cause of whatever it is.

If anybody has some ideas, I'd appreciate some input.

Thanks again.

Jon

Try this link to PINWALL salvage, cold save you a bunch of dough.

http://stores.ebay.com/PinWall-Cycle-Parts-Inc/_i.html?_nkw=venture+regulator&submit=Search&_sid=12458664

Well, after pulling all the fuses it still pops the main.

 

After studying the wiring diagram, it seems there are only a couple of things it can be.

 

The regulator/rectifier, condenser, ignition switch or the wiring in between.

 

I unplugged the R/R and reconnected the battery, the fuse didn't pop, but then the (what I suspect is the) condenser on the L fairing began to snap, crackle and pop and spewed something all over the garage floor. Is this because the R/R wasn't connected? I'm not sure what the function of that condenser is, and it doesn't show up in any parts diagrams that I can find, but it is shown on the wiring diagram.

 

(...)

Jon

The condenser is shown on the "AUDIO SYSTEM 1" parts diagram sheet, P/N 1NL-81965-01-00. Its purpose is to keep voltage variations away from the audio system (the radio, more precisely) so that the music remains clear no matter the engine revs or what other loads come on and off. Same goes for the noise filter connected to the radiator fan (and also physically located behind the lower left cowling cover).

The behavior you describe (crackle, pop and spew its guts out) is what a condenser does if it's connected backwards (i.e. + to - and - to +) across a power supply. Unless you deliberately connected the battery the other way around, I cannot explain how you would get things to reverse on their way to the condenser (save for the very improbable situation in which you've got exactly the right amount of shorted wires in exactly the right places). It is also possible (though just as unlikely) that both the R/R and the Condenser got damaged at the same time and both failed short. The R/R is designed to handle a lot more current, so while it was connected, it was blowing the main fuse. When disconnected, it was the Condenser's turn to act as a short and since it was now the weakest link, it blew up. Nice story, but even I don't believe it :-)

Unfortunately, there is no (easy) way to test the R/R outside of the bike and even Yamaha does testing by elimination.

I don't know how much time (or patience) you have, but if I were you I'd try to a step by step approach, as follows:

1) Find out if I have any cooked/welded together wires:

1a) Remove backup fuse (i.e. the fuse protecting the un-switched power), disconnect alarm (if any), disconnect R/R, disconnect Condenser (so that there's nobody left on the un-switched power line)

1b) With the battery disconnected, use an ohmmeter or continuity tester and check continuity between battery + and - leads -- there should be none. If there is, there's a short somewhere

2) Find out if the problem is on the un-switched (backup) circuit:

2a) Check/Install main fuse, check/install other fuses (except the backup one), ignition off, connect positive battery lead first and put the rubber boot on it

2b) Use an insulated screwdriver to very briefly touch the negative lead to the battery's negative contact. Nothing should happen -- if there's sparks, there's a short somewhere. Note that blowing a 30A fuse should happen with a considerable amount of sparking, even if the fuse blows fast enough so that nothing catches fire.

2c) Connect one of the things disconnected at 1a) (except the backup fuse) above and repeat the spark test. When the alarm has been added, very minor sparking may occur (visible if in a dark room) but all fuses should survive nevertheless. If (large) sparking occurs, then the last component added is faulty.

2d) Replace (install) the backup fuse and repeat the spark test. Large sparking will cause the backup fuse to blow and that means either the CB radio or the speedometer have a short inside.

3) Find out if the problem is on the switched circuit:

3a) Make sure all lights are off, turn the engine switch to "STOP", make sure nothing is connected to the DC outlet

3b) Turn ignition to ACC and repeat the sparking test. Large sparking will cause the Audio or DC outlet fuses to blow and that means either the Audio Amplifier is at fault of there's something shorting the DC outlet connectors.

3c) Permanently connect the negative battery lead.

3d) Turn ignition to ON and check for blown fuses, which indicate the circuit at fault.

3e) Turn the engine switch to "RUN" and check for blown fuses, which again indicate the circuit at fault.

4) If we got to here, we either found the short or everything works well :-)

Hope it helps.

Thanks for all the responses.

I ordered a replacement R/R and swapped it, but it still pops.

I unplug the r/r and everything is good. Plug it in and it blows.

The weird thing is I can't see a short on that circuit with my meter. (?) But the battery blows the fuse.

I show good cont. btw. the pos. term. and the red lead on the r/r connector. and good ground from the black. No cont. between the red and black, and no cont. btw the any terminals on the r/r and ground (or the housing).

The 3 stator leads at the r/r connector show about .3-.4 ohms. (my meter doesn't read very low, but I get .7-.6 on the 200 scale and I have .3 by just connecting my leads)

I'm looking for the connector where the stator plugs into the r/r. I want to disconnect the stator, plug the r/r back in and see if it blows. Still haven't found it.

Can someone tell me where to look? But still the resistance at the r/r connector seems about right. (?)

I'm not an electrical engineer, but just don't get why I would get no cont. across a circuit and when I connect the battery I get sparks and blow a 30 amp fuse???

I'm stumped! Should I just buy a stator and try it?

It's warming up this weekend and the pressure's on now!!!

Thanks for all the advice.

Jon

disconnect your + side of your battery.

then check for continuity between main fuse and engine block, frame and - side of battery.

if continuity between engine block and main fuse it's either a external pos wire grounding/shorting out, or, the stator wiring got hot and lost some of is coating and is

"edit: conducting thru your oil "probably not the case as per csdexter " end edit" . Stators have an insulating coating on the wound wires so the electrons cannot jump to the next wire or ground.

Best advice though, is to use the service manual....

Go to:

Second Gen and Royal Star Technical Library - READ ONLY!

Guides, Parts Diagrams, Etc.

select from the 'beginning" hit "show threads"

Download the Owners and Service Manuals

enter code

down load your service manual: and follow steps in section 8

It will give a step by step process of elimination...

I suffered thru a similar gremlin several years ago....after weeks of trouble shooting and replacing main fuses - As I was moving my 2007 Venture from the garage to the driveway at night - I saw a very brief spark coming from the below the fairing and next to the left shock - and then the fuse blew. After weeks of trying to track down this bugger - it showed itself to me. I got a flashlight and immediately saw where the headlight wire had become pinched and only caused the main fuse to blow when I turned tightly to the left - causing the exposed wire to short. After a quick and proper repair, replacing the main fuse - I never had a problem again. I determined that I actually caused the problem as I had opened the fairing to do some "add on" work. When completing that job, I didn't check my work and I had caused the wiring harness to "work free" to the point that the headlight wire was being pinched.

The smallest of issues can drive you nuts - and then to figure out that I caused the problem...and heeerrrr's your sign!

It should be noted oil in general (and motorcycle oil is no exception) does not conduct electricity.

It should also be noted that the generator stator coil is connected directly to the full bridge rectifier inside the R/R. So, even if it were completely melted down and in short, it would still not cause a short on the battery side because the diodes in the bridge do not conduct that way.

As other bikers have experienced, a cooked stator results in no (or poor) charging rather than the main fuse blowing or things catching fire.

Quick question: after witnessing the condenser exploding, have you disconnected it from the rest of the cable harness? Even if maimed, it may still be shorted. I'm insisting on that because it shouldn't have happened in the first place :-) The condenser has two wires, one of them Black (or Blue, can't remember right now) and the other Red (if anybody has the schematic handy, do correct me). Could you please check that, with the R/R disconnected and the main fuse replaced, you get a positive voltage reading of ~12V between the Red and Blue wires? (positive voltmeter probe on Red, negative on Blue)? If you read -12V (i.e. negative 12 volts), than you have a big problem because that's why the condenser exploded.

It should be noted oil in general (and motorcycle oil is no exception) does not conduct electricity.

 

It should also be noted that the generator stator coil is connected directly to the full bridge rectifier inside the R/R. So, even if it were completely melted down and in short, it would still not cause a short on the battery side because the diodes in the bridge do not conduct that way.

 

As other bikers have experienced, a cooked stator results in no (or poor) charging rather than the main fuse blowing or things catching fire.

 

Quick question: after witnessing the condenser exploding, have you disconnected it from the rest of the cable harness? Even if maimed, it may still be shorted. I'm insisting on that because it shouldn't have happened in the first place :-) The condenser has two wires, one of them Black (or Blue, can't remember right now) and the other Red (if anybody has the schematic handy, do correct me). Could you please check that, with the R/R disconnected and the main fuse replaced, you get a positive voltage reading of ~12V between the Red and Blue wires? (positive voltmeter probe on Red, negative on Blue)? If you read -12V (i.e. negative 12 volts), than you have a big problem because that's why the condenser exploded.

I respectfully disagree:

do a find on "conduct" in this articule:

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/562/oil-change-filter-sensors

Now, you could say "pure oil" or "pure water" does not conduct electricity... but we all know oil gets contaminated the longer it's used...

yet another reason to change your oil and filter regularly...

theres also a resistance check you can do on the stator wires to determine weather it's good or not.

BUT,

the best practice is follow the service manual and test methodically... instead of jumping from one idea to the next.

When i purchased my 88 yvr i had it shipped it to me. True to form the battery was very dead and they had drained the fuel tank. After adding fuel i jump started the bike from my car. Running! The car is a Jeep Grand Cherokee, if that would make any difference. After starting and letting it warm up a little I drove it home. I have had no problems with the electrical system in any way. After seeing the messages about not jumping from a car I am wondering, did I just get very lucky or is there some other reason for not using a car.

.

 

I unplug the r/r and everything is good. Plug it in and it blows.

The weird thing is I can't see a short on that circuit with my meter. (?) But the battery blows the fuse.

 

Jon

You seem to have isolated to the correct area. So this begs the question, what changes when the RR is plug in? Possible damage to the RR connector allowing pins to bend/short to other pins?

You also mention you are unable to find the stator connector. Lots of folks remove the connector due to overheating damage and solder the wires direct. Maybe overheat damage continued to the RR connector....

Like the saying goes, it's usually the nut that attaches the handlebars to the seat...

I'm sorry to have wasted everybody's time here.

Seems the genius at the battery store sold me a battery with the terminals reversed.

I didn't even think to look, just dropped it in the same way! Sometimes I think I should really wear my helmet 24 hrs a day! Dohhh!

I wasn't until the second person mentioned the condenser popping was a sign of reversed polarity that it even hit me to check.

Anyway, I'm off to the store.

Thanks again for all the input and sorry to have wasted all your time. This group is the best!

Jon

Glad you found it, everybody hates fighting the windmills :-) Apparently, there's quite a lot of bikes and ATVs out there that use the same battery as the Venture, only with the terminals reversed -- it always helps to check before connecting anything electrical.

Damage, fire or wallet drain may occur otherwise Luckily for you, the only victim was the condenser as the diodes in the R/R are tough enough to blow the main fuse without suffering any damage themselves.

Wishing your bike a very quick return on the road!

Working as a mechanic in a garage and when first starting the wiper blades battery etc easy stuf was my job. I learned back then to double check marking on the poles. Back in the day Ford was oposite of everyone else. You could use the other battery but you had to turn it around and the posts were at the back of the battery box. Thanks for the insite to your problem. I look here all the time to see what folks are running across. Good luck to you and your machine. Hope nothing other than pride got fried for now.

It's a good thing the folks at Yamaha planned for such a occurrence ...

"if it can happen, it will happen"... LOL

Good News!

The same would have happened on any bike which has a charging system which implies rectification (which means all of them). The rectifier diodes will act as a straight short if the battery is connected in reverse and since they're designed to be beefy, the main fuse will always suffer an untimely death as you connect the battery.

That is also a good thing as you'd fry things like the the radio or alarm (which tend to be rather expensive) if the main fuse wouldn't die fast enough. Remember both are connected to the backup (unswitched) line so even if the ignition is off, the reverse current would still reach them.

The same would have happened on any bike which has a charging system which implies rectification (which means all of them). The rectifier diodes will act as a straight short if the battery is connected in reverse and since they're designed to be beefy, the main fuse will always suffer an untimely death as you connect the battery.

 

That is also a good thing as you'd fry things like the the radio or alarm (which tend to be rather expensive) if the main fuse wouldn't die fast enough. Remember both are connected to the backup (unswitched) line so even if the ignition is off, the reverse current would still reach them.

There was some talk about resettable fuses available and one of the reasons I didn't swap mine over to this type is I wasn't convinced they would trip fast enough...

what's your thoughts on this?

It depends on the specs and on the internals of the other equipment.

The current tends to follow (or prefer) the path of least resistance, where the rectifier in the R/R offers a very low resistance when connected in reverse so your other equipment should see a minimal surge (if any, at all) during the time elapsed until the fuse blows.

Also, most (but not all!) equipment designed for automotive use will have a very forgiving power supply stage so having a bad R/R that outputs more volts than the spec or connecting the battery in reverse should do no harm -- but unless you have the schematic before your eyes, you'd better not take that for granted.

I have no experience with low voltage + high current resettable fuses so I cannot chip in with any "from the field" information. If their trip times are similar (or better) than the household ones (or the ones used for USB ports), then you should be OK.

Once again, unless you have access to the schematic of a box and it shows that the supply section clearly has reverse-current protection, you should assume it will fry if you connect it in reverse and thus take all due care not to do it.

The 12V resettable are no where near as fast tripping as the correct fast blow fuse.

I have not seen specs but my experience is that the element can go nearly instantly, the resettables take almost a half second. I the world of electricity, a half second is almost forever.

I suffered thru a similar gremlin several years ago....after weeks of trouble shooting and replacing main fuses - As I was moving my 2007 Venture from the garage to the driveway at night - I saw a very brief spark coming from the below the fairing and next to the left shock - and then the fuse blew. After weeks of trying to track down this bugger - it showed itself to me. I got a flashlight and immediately saw where the headlight wire had become pinched and only caused the main fuse to blow when I turned tightly to the left - causing the exposed wire to short. After a quick and proper repair, replacing the main fuse - I never had a problem again. I determined that I actually caused the problem as I had opened the fairing to do some "add on" work. When completing that job, I didn't check my work and I had caused the wiring harness to "work free" to the point that the headlight wire was being pinched.

 

The smallest of issues can drive you nuts - and then to figure out that I caused the problem...and heeerrrr's your sign!

This same thing happened to me two years ago right before our SD Trip. Freebird sent me this and this cured the problem....

From Freebird:It may just be a coincidence that they haven't blown again with the lights off. Did you check the wires from the passing lamps where they cross the upper triple tree of the forks? I've seen SEVERAL cases where the wires get pinched when they are too far to the side and get smashed when the forks are turned.