American

https://www.oldhallperformance.com/redline RED LINE OIL Since 1979, Red Line Synthetic Oil Corporation has grown to manufacture more than 100 quality products, including motor oils, gear oils, assembly lubes, fuel additives, and its popular WaterWetter cooling additive for the automotive, motorcycle, marine, and industrial markets. Based in Benicia, California, Red Line has a reputation with racers and enthusiasts alike for creating products that perform and protect better than any on the market, regardless of price. Originally founded by president Tim Kerrigan and Peter Filice (retired) to produce lubricants for the racing industry, Red Line Oil now distributes its diverse line of products across the globe. Vice President Roy Howell brings a knowledge of available technologies and responds to technical challenges, satisfying the high demands of the performance industry. Red Line's employees are enthusiasts that stay on top of each racing and performance niche, ensuring that product recommendations allow customers make the significant performance gains. Red Line formulates fully-synthetic oils and chemically-advanced additives using the world’s finest base stocks. Rather than cutting costs by blending in petroleum products, Red Line's motor oils and gear oils use superior ester base stocks that provide extreme stability at high temperatures and superior film strength at lower viscosities where more power can be produced.

[h=1]Red Line Synthetic Oil Corporation[/h]From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [TABLE=class: plainlinks metadata ambox ambox-content ambox-Refimprove, width: 1] [TR] [TD=class: mbox-image, align: center] [/TD] [TD=class: mbox-text]This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (August 2012) (Learn how and when to remove this template message) [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [TABLE=class: plainlinks metadata ambox ambox-content ambox-Advert, width: 1] [TR] [TD=class: mbox-image, align: center] [/TD] [TD=class: mbox-text]This article contains content that is written like an advertisement. Please help improve it by removing promotional content and inappropriate external links, and by adding encyclopedic content written from a neutral point of view. (August 2012) (Learn how and when to remove this template message) [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [TABLE=class: infobox vcard, width: 22] Red Line Synthetic Oil[TR] [TH]Industry[/TH] [TD=class: category]Chemical[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Founded[/TH] [TD]1979 in Novato, California[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Founder[/TH] [TD=class: agent]Tim Kerrigan Peter Filice[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Headquarters[/TH] [TD=class: adr]Benicia, California, United States[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Products[/TH] [TD]Synthetic lubricants[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TH]Owner[/TH] [TD]Phillips 66 Spectrum Corporation[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Red Line Synthetic Oil is a synthetic lubricants manufacturer located in Benicia, California, United States.[1] It is part of Phillips 66 Spectrum Corporation.[2] [h=2]Contents[/h] [hide] 1History 2Products 3Racing 4References 5External links [h=2][/h]Red Line was founded in 1979 by Tim Kerrigan and Peter Filice in Novato, California. As it grew, it moved to Martinez, California, and then to Benicia, California. In 1986, Roy Howell, a Cornell graduate and chemist working for Lubrizol, was appointed as Chief Chemist at Red Line Synthetic Oil Corporation and is currently Vice President of the company. [h=2][/h]Red Line started as a company producing oils for the racing industry, later expanding their business to the more mainstream markets. They have a full line up of multigrade and monograde polyol ester base stock (Group V) engine and gear lubricants.[3][4][5] [h=2][/h]Starting in 2009, they are the official oil for the Formula Mazda Challenge series [6] Other partnerships and contingency programs include Drag racing,[7] Road Racing,[8] Time Attack,[9] Pro Stock Bike racing,[10] and Motorcycle racing.[11] Red Line Synthetic Oil sponsored touring car racer Eddie Garrison n the Grand Bayou Race Series in 2007. Red Line also sponsored Doug Kalitta's NHRA Top Fuel Dragster beginning in 2009 [12] and Stillen's Rally-Spec Nissan GT-R.[13] [h=2][/h] Jump up ^ Red Line Synthetic Oil, Official website, Retrieved August 21, 2008. Jump up ^ Phillips 66 Acquires Specialty Lubricants Manufacturer, News release, Retrieved April 18, 2017. Jump up ^ [1], Esters in Synthetic Lubricants, BITOG Paper by T.G. Schaefer Jump up ^ "Archived copy" (PDF). Archived from the original (PDF)on 2009-04-07. Retrieved 2009-06-17., Red Line Motor Oil Technical Information Jump up ^ "Archived copy" (PDF). Archived from the original (PDF)on 2009-08-24. Retrieved 2009-06-17., Red Line Race Oil Technical Information Jump up ^ [2][permanent dead link], Formula Mazda Challenge Jump up ^ "Archived copy". Archived from the original on 2009-07-13. Retrieved 2009-06-17., Drag Racing partnerships Jump up ^ "Archived copy". Archived from the original on 2009-07-13. Retrieved 2009-06-17., Road Racing partnerships Jump up ^ [3], Time Attack partnership Jump up ^ [4], Pro Stock Bike Partnership Jump up ^ "Archived copy". Archived from the original on 2009-07-13. Retrieved 2009-06-17., Motorcycle Racing partnerships Jump up ^ "Red Line and Doug Kalitta Team for Sonoma NHRA". http://www.redlineoil.com. Retrieved 29 June 2017. Jump up ^ "Red Line Synthetic Oil -". http://www.redlineoil.com. Retrieved 29 June 2017. [h=2][/h] Red Line Synthetic Oil - Official Website.

Big difference between advertising and pulling apart data safety sheets designed to assist hazmat teams in case of an accident. Neither one of us knows the formula of any brand of oil, and a data safety sheet is sure as heck not going to reveal the formulation of an oil, if it did all the manufactures would be using each others data safety sheets to copy each others formula. Think of it this way, Coke and Pepsi both list ingredients on their cans but neither one tells you how much of each ingredient is used to make their formula. You're grasping at straws, it is clear you don't like Redline so what, use Amsoil, from your posts it is clear that is what you like and use as everything you post is from one Amsoil distributor or another. I have said Amsoil makes a good oil and I would not tell anyone not to use it, I also said I have never used Amsoil because I have never had the opportunity. For someone who did not want an oil battle you sure have gone out of your way to try to discredit Redline oil. Like I said Amsoil, Mobil One, Motul, Redline, there are others are all good oils, use what you feel comfortable with. Here is an oil sample of Redline from the Harley I traded in, the sample was taken at the 20,000 mile oil change so it had Redline 20w-50 for the past 15,000 miles up to that sample: Got back my oil report on my 2016 Harley Davidson Ultra Limited Twin Cool 103 C.I. engine. I have run Redline 20w-50 motorcycle oil since the 5,000 mile oil change, The engine ran the factory fill for the first 1,000 miles then was changed at the 1,000 mile service to Harley SYN 3 synthetic oil until the 5,000 mile oil change. Engine has a Vance & Hines FP3 tuner, Vance & Hines Powerdual header, Rinehart mufflers and a Arlen Ness Big Sucker stage one intake. Oil Type & Grade: Redline 20w-50 motorcycle oil Comments: Wear metals look great for this first sample from your limited. Averages for this engine type are based on about 4,200 miles on the oil. You ran longer and got less metal in the oil-- that's great! Your engine is wearing with the best of them! The viscosity was a little think, but that hasn't hurt anything that we can see. We're not sure what causes it, but it's fairly common to see high viscosity in Harley engines. As far as we can tell, it's harmless. The TBN was quite strong at 5.0 (1.0 is low) so you should be fine with a longer interval. Try 6,500 miles. Nice! Miles on oil: 5,222 Miles on unit: 25,001 Sample Date: 11/25/2017 Make up oil added: 0 Aluminum: 2 universal averages: 4 Chromium: 0 universal averages: 0 Iron: 8 universal averages: 11 Copper: 10 universal averages: 18 Lead:0 universal averages: 0 Tin: 1 universal averages: 1 Molybdenum: 560 universal averages: 103 Nickel: 0 universal averages: 0 Manganese: 1 universal averages: 1 Silver: 1 universal averages: 0 Titanium: 0 universal averages: 0 Potassium: 1 universal averages: 2 Boron: 17 universal averages: 139 Silicon: 18 Universal averages: 16 Sodium: 10 universal Averages: 7 Calcium: 2695 universal averages: 2223 Magnesium: 14 universal averages: 259 Phosphorus: 1901 universal averages: 1116 Zinc: 2117 universal averages: 1390 Barium: 1 universal averages: 1 SUS Viscosity @ 210 F: 109.0 Values: 75 - 99 cSt Viscosity @ 100 C: 22.45 Values: 14.3 - 20.4 Flashpoint in F: 415 Values: >385 Fuel %: Antifreese %: 0 Water %: 0 Insolubles %: 0.2 Values: TBN 5.0 Like I said I like Redline it works for me and I have the oil reports to back it up from Blackstone Labs.

RED LINE 20W50 MOTORCYCLE OIL Designed for the latest Big-Twin motorcycle engines that specify 20W50 motor oil, including Evolution, Twin Cam and aftermarket engines of similar design Superior film strength through the use of ester base stocks for protection and ring seal Extended drain intervals over other brands due to higher quality base stocks and excellent dispersants Blended with specific friction modifiers that are compatible with wet-clutches, suitable for JASO MA applications There is also another part where it only says PAO and Ester base stocks. Either way I know I like Redline as it works for me. Other like Amsoil because it works for them while still others like Mobil One and then you have those who still use conventional oil. Who cares what oil each one of use, just post what you use and what worked for you and people can then decide which ones they want to try and use. No need to try and beat down each brand, I know that there are several good brands that will work well from different manufactures. I am sure there are those out there who use semi-synthetics.

Be careful trying to use product data safety sheets to try and determine what the make up of the oil is, I have yet to see any Redline advertised as anything except Group V ester oil, yes it has Group IV added to for seal compatibility and likely other benefits. Remember also that Group V is not a higher level of synthetic, it is only all the other synthetics that don't fit into the Group IV listing. I have yet to see any manufacture tell anyone what their formula and make up is, the product data safety sheets are solely for hazmat so that emergency response crews will know what chemicals they are dealing with as that will determine how they treat a scene. It is highly unlikely you could ever determine what the true formula of the oil is from those sheets.

All Group V ester based synthetic oils will contain some Group IV PAO in them, that is for seal compatibility, if they did not contain some Group IV PAO the seals would shrink causing an oil leak, in the beginning Group IV PAO's had the opposite problem in they would cause the seals to swell to much and cause problems. Both issues have been fully worked out now and seal swelling or shrinking is a thing of the past.

Everyone knows Red is the fastest color, that is why police pull over so many red vehicles.

You can't really blame Mobil as they challenged Castrol for calling their Group III a full synthetic oil, it was NAD that made the decision that oil companies could do that. Sadly the API piggybacked the NAD ruling and now considers Group III hydro Cracked conventional oil a full synthetic. Shame on the API for doing that. It was hard for Mobil to compete with manufactures who were calling their Group III conventional oils full synthetic and charging a lower price while Mobil was using Group IV and Group V synthetic oils which cost more to produce and require a higher price to sell. NAD did all consumers a disservice with their very wrong and bad ruling. The API has also failed all consumers by piggybacking the NAD decision.

Amsoil still makes group IV synthetic oils, their Group III oils are the ones that meet the current API guidelines. Mobil One did change some of their oils over to Group III but they still do make a group IV PAO synthetic as well. The problem with Mobil One is they make so many different versions of Mobil One that it is hard to figure out the one that is still made with Group IV PAO synthetic. Shell/Pennzoil are both GTL (Gas To Liquid) process which is being called a Group III+ by most people and it comes the closest to Group IV PAO synthetic oil. Redline oils are all Group V ester synthetics. Motul as well makes a group V synthetic and it is said but I can't confirm it one of the many different Mobil One blends is a Group V ester synthetic as well. If you change your oil every three thousand miles a conventional oil will work, over time it will have some build up on the inside of the engine but it will serve you well. Synthetic oil on the other hand will keep your engine cleaner and you can run it longer between each change. Where synthetic oils shine is that time where your engine temp may spike for what ever reason, the conventional oil will be toast and should be changed ASAP if or when that happens, but with a synthetic oil PAO or Ester based they can withstand that temp spike without breaking down and possibly damaging your engine. Phosphorus and Zinc are the two main items the API has called for cutting back, both help to protect the engine. This has lead to some synthetic oil manufactures to create their Group III lines and why their Group IV and V oils are not API certified, they contain more Phosphorus and Zinc than the API allows. Phosphorus and Zinc were reduced because the federal government makes manufactures warranty emissions equipment for as much as eight years and over 100,000 miles, Phosphorus and Zinc can harm catalytic convertors however in a properly running engine it has never been shown to cause any damage. An engine that starts using oil is another matter and that could lead to damaging the catalytic convertor. I have yet to suffer any damage to a catalytic convertor and I use the oils with the higher levels of Phosphorus and Zinc.

Correct this deal about group III oils was never filed as a law suit, but I find it hard to swallow that NAD is the determining factor about what a full synthetic oil is in America. In Germany the same group III oil labeled as full synthetic in America can not be labeled as a synthetic oil over there because it is not a synthetic oil. Germany got that one right and the NAD got it completely wrong. Any engine can survive on conventional oil, the difference is you have to change conventional oil at shorter intervals or you will end up with sludge build up. Synthetic oils have a big advantage over conventional oils in that Group IV PAO and Group V Ester oils naturally clean the engine where a conventional oil requires all the detergents to be added to them and you can still get sludge build up with a Group III conventional oil if it is not changed at shorter intervals. For me I will stick with synthetics, most people change their oil way to soon as it is.

Quit your complaining, I live in Florida and we are getting the never ending rain. Bah Humbug

Very true, the bad part about the dealer scam on payoffs is you will never really know if it was a real honest mistake or if it was the use the customers money for 30 days as a free loan which is documented as part of the trade in scam dealers pull. But for the good news on day 31 the balance has gone to zero on the Harley Davidson Financial Service web site on my account page. I will call on Monday to confirm and will be happy to put this behind me. While I researched this on the internet many people are not so lucky and get stuck having to pay off their old loan along with their new loan or the dealer just closes and they are now stuck with both loans. Now all I have to do calculate the amount to contribute to the forum once I confirm with HDFS on Tuesday that the loan is satisfied. ACCOUNT OVERVIEW Account Status: GOOD STANDING Payoff Estimate: $11,412.32. The payoff estimate is valid through 6/04/2018. Outstanding Balance: $0.00 Next Payment Due: 6/01/2018 Total Amount Due: $0.00

That is the old one armed bandit machine, I don't put any stock in that machine as again it is being used for something it was not designed for. Our engines will never put the extreme pressures on the oil that the one arm bandit or the four ball wear test puts on the oil. I think Amsoil makes a fine oil, I have never personally ever used Amsoil but I would not tell someone not to use it. I just have never been in a position to try it for myself. I just hate how Amsoil advertises because their oil is good enough not to need to use some of the stuff they put out in print. I am a big believer in full synthetic oils meaning Group IV and Group V synthetics not the Group III hydro cracked conventional oils that are called full synthetic all because of the NAD (National Advertising Division) decided that a little extra removal of impurities qualified Group III oils as full synthetics when they still can't match what a true Group IV or V synthetic oil can do.

This video from Yamalube also mentions the polarity of ester group V.

Ok, American, we get it. You use Redline oil. Seriously, are you a Redline Employee/Salesman/Stockholder or something? Just a consumer, I was very clear in my posts that here is a breakdown of the different groups pick what group you feel will work best for you, I have not said use Redline or else, I have stated I use Redline oils and they work for me, not everyone will pay the cost of Redline oils, I will, but again no where have I said you must use Redline oils, I mentioned other brands as well.

http://xenum.com/en/home/company/technology/ester-oil/ Ester oil is a synthetic lubricant. In the formulations of synthetic oils are commonly used 3 kinds of synthetic base oils: POLY ALPHA OLEFINS (PAO): The most popular and widely used (ingredient?) in synthetic and semi synthetic oils. PAO have a very good resistance to high temperatures and low volatility. HYDRO CRACKED BASE (HC): Is not really synthetic product, but a mineral oil that was hydro treated in order to obtain synthetic ‘performance’. HC is a good lubricant but has higher volatility than PAO. ESTER OILS: They have been used in lubrication for over 60 years as the favourite base oil in many severe applications. Their properties solve problems and ensure substantial improvement for lubricating products. In automotive applications, the first synthetic engine oils, were in fact based entirely on ester formulations and these products were quite successful. [h=2]POLAR MOLECULES[/h]Ester molecules are medium to very polar. This means they possess an electrostatic charge as a result of the opposing charges. Polarity of oil, comes with certain interesting properties: [h=4]• LUBRICITY[/h]Polarity causes the ester molecules to be attracted to positively charged metal surfaces. As a result, the molecules line up on the metal surface creating a tough film with enhanced adhesion properties. That translates into a strong and persistent film providing superior lubricity, lower energy (fuel) consumption and reduced wear.

This is what the four ball wear test was designed for. Extreme pressure lubricants. https://www.nyelubricants.com/tribological-testing-by-4-ball-methods [h=3]4 Ball Extreme-Pressure[/h]The measurement of Extreme-Pressure properties of a lubricating grease using the 4 Ball method is designated under the ASTM-D 2596. The purpose of this testing is to determine the load carrying capabilities of a lubricating grease under high load applications. The 4 Ball EP test machine operates in a sliding or rolling motion. A single stainless steel ball rotates onto three stainless balls, all of which are completely coated with a lubricant film, or “boundary”, held stationary in the form of a cradle. The ability of a grease to perform under extreme pressure conditions is determined by the load wear index (LWI). Three measurements go into determining the LWI. Imagine the test as a routine traffic light. The first measurement, the last non-seizure load (LNSL), is the highest applied load that exists when there is still lubrication between the 4 balls, or the “green light”. The load is then increased until the lubricant film no longer exists and there is metal to metal contact and the 2nd measurement, seizure region, occurs, or the “yellow light”. Finally the load is increased until catastrophic welding occurs, and the final measurement is determined, or the “red light”. Welding can be detected if any of the following are noticed: The friction-measuring device undergoes a sharp transverse movement Increased noise level of the motor Smoking from the ball pot A sudden drop in the lever arm An average ball scar over 4mm is recorded Using the values of these parameters, the Load-Wear Index can be calculated, which gives a numerical value to compare a grease’s ability to prevent wear at applied loads. Based on this value, one can formulate greases with different levels of extreme pressure properties.

Video about oils.

I would like to address the Amsoil viscosity question, our 113 CI engines can use 10w-40 all the way up to 20w-50 with 15w-50 and 20w-40 in between them. Victory forums used to say don't you dare run anything other than 20w-40 victory brand oil or your clutch will slip and your engine will blow up. All hog wash, I used Redline 20w-50 in my victory as well as 10w-40 Redline without any issues and zero clutch slippage. Funny thing is when Victory released the Octane bikes I think they named them Victory released a 10w-60 full synthetic oil for them and right on the bottle it states can be used in all Victory engines. Harley Davidson uses 20w-50 or 20w-60 in their V-twins. Unless you are going way outside of the weight range you are unlikely to ever run into any issues with the weight of the oil. Remember the second number in a multi weight oil is the actual weight of the oil while the first number means that it is capable of flowing like a lower weight oil when cold. I am sorry, Amsoil makes a good oil but man their propaganda really makes them look bad. It all comes from their Amway marketing approach.

The above is a good basic break down without any oil manufactures slant, with the breakdown of each group of oil in the above post everyone can decided which group they want to go with, Group III and III+ oils will be cheaper than Group IV oils which will be a little cheaper than a full Group V oil. I personally currently use Redline Group V oils in all my vehicles, Star Venture, Honda Civic with 1.5 Liter Turbo and my Ram 2500 with its 6.4 Liter Hemi. One advantage Group V ester oils have over Group III, III+ and IV is Group V ester has a positive charge while allows it to cling to metal parts in the engine, transmission and primary. That is why Semi-Synthetics, Group III and Group IV oils some times include some Group V ester in them. I have used Royal Purple in the past and right now if I was to use Royal Purple in my car or truck it would be their HPS series oil, I have used Mobil One in the past as well but it has been years since I have used Mobil One. Pennzoil is owned by Shell and they are a Group III+ Gas To Liquid (GTL) oil. Not much information is really available on GTL oils and Shell owns the patents on the process. Castrol Oil I tend to stay away from because they are the company that started the Group III conventional oil being labeled as a full synthetic when it is really just a more refined conventional oil so I personally don't use Castrol because of that.

The thing to remember is that our transmissions/primary's are gear driven and the Yamaha design of this engine lubricates the engine, primary and transmission, being this is a shared sump type system that is all gear driven it is harder on the oil. Group II oils have viscosity modifiers added to them and group II oils are conventional oils so the oils molecules are all different sizes with the smaller molecules getting used up quickest due to the gear style system shearing them. That is why group II oils require viscosity modifiers to assist them with durability. Group III oils are just higher refined conventional oils that remove more of the impurities from the oil but it still has different size molecules and requires viscosity modifiers like its group II brother. Mobil filed a complaint against Castrol oil with an advertising board (NAD) saying that group III oils are not synthetic oils as Castrol oil had started labeling their group III oils as full synthetic. The advertising board sided with Castrol oil allowing them to label their group III oils as full synthetic oils. The same group III oil labeled as full synthetic in America can not be labeled as synthetic in Germany/Europe as they do not allow group III refined oils to be labeled full synthetic. The extra refining of a group III oil is also called hydro cracked which is just another term for the higher refinement. Group III+ is a newer class of conventional oil that is PROCESSES FOR CONVERTING NATURAL GAS INTO LIQUIDS. It is also called GTL for gas to liquid, these oils are made by Shell who holds the patents on this process and is closer to a group IV synthetic. There is not a lot of information on group III+. Group IV oils are true synthetic meaning every molecule is the same as all the others, that is why group IV oils do not require viscosity modifiers, group IV oils are PAO made from polyalphaolefins. Group V oils are all other synthetics not in group IV category like esters. In group V oils every molecule is the same as all the others. Ester does have one advantage with that being ester is a positive charge so it clings to metal parts aiding in cold starts. That is why you will find group V ester added to a lot of group IV, III and even semi-synthetic oils. My preference is to run a full group V ester based oil. It should be noted that the only oils certified for use in turbine engines are group V ester based oils, no group I, II, III, III+ or IV oil can withstand the high temp environment of a turbine engine. Being we are running an air/oil cooled designed engine I like knowing that I will never have to worry about my group V oil breaking down due to heat if I get stuck in some traffic. Here is a rough example of what I am talking about when I refer to the size of molecules in the oil make up. The two straight lines represent bearing surface or gear surface and the upper case, lower case "o" and number zero will represent the molecules. _____________________________________________ OO0oo00OOoooO0OOo0O00OO0o000ooOOOO0o0oO --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Assume the bottom line is touching the molecules. Notice the different shapes of the molecules with the larger ones touching the bearing surfaces and smaller ones not touching all of the bearing surface. Also the smaller molecules will be sheared quicker braking down the oil viscosity and that is why viscosity enhancers have to be added. Now here is a group IV or V true synthetic oil. ____________________________________________ OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Assume the bottom line is touching the molecules. See how every molecule is touching the bearing or gear surface? that means more protection, plus there is no need to add viscosity enhancers. This is just a basic explanation of the groups of oils and the difference between a true synthetic oil and group II, III, III+ oils. Group I oils are very lightly refined and not used in engines outside of antique engines and will be a non detergent oil so group I oils are not used in todays engines at all.

This could be a good thread as long as the Amsoil propaganda is left out, Group V automotive oils are all fine for automotive use, in fact even Amsoil has been known to add some group V synthetic to some of their oils. Amsoil sells two groups of oil, group III and group IV. Amsoil make a good product, but the four ball wear test is a joke, it was not designed to measure motor oils. That is my sole gripe with Amsoil is their marketing is so outlandish considering their product does not need such marketing ploys. Yes there are group V oils that are not suitable for automotive use and those group V oils are not marketed for automotive use. That was a scare tactic by Amsoil against Redline, Motul and Mobil One as they have oils that use group V synthetics in them and I believe at one time not sure if Mobil One still does but they did have a group V oil as well.

I know they received the BBB complaint today, I think that and any emails and calls that might have been sent their way all added up. I will keep everyone informed when it pays off and I have a contribution to make when it is finalized to the contribute button above.

Update: I received a phone call from Destination Powersports from the General Manager who's name is Jeremy, he was very apologetic said they made a mistake on there end. He asked me to call Harley Davidson Financial Services to authorize them to make the payoff on the Harley. Harley Davidson Financial Services is kind of strange like that as they do require you to authorize them to deal with a third party for a payoff, likely has to do with financial fraud. I called Harley Davidson Financial Services and authorized them to deal with Destination Powersports for the payoff. So now I will keep tabs on the account for the balance to make sure it goes through and I will give an update at that point as to the status of what is going on.

You got my vote!