ARRRGGG! Brakes suck.

[shriva]

1983 venture.

 

Front right brake = work perfect!

back brakes and left front = nothing.

 

Bled the front left, squirts out brake fluid.

Bled back, squirts out fluid.

 

Did that for about an hour, nothing. petal goes all the way down.

 

Came here and read everything i could find about 1st gen brakes.. seems others had this problem also.. found there is supposed to be a bleeder up by the forks?

 

took off front fairing.

 

Found what apears to be a valve up under there? No bleeder looking thing like i saw in a pic just a bolt? what the heck! bled that too, about 8oz of fluid..

 

Breaks still go all the way down.. bled front and back again.. all squirt real good.

 

Brake still all the way down.. no stopage (that a word?) at all when i roll it back and forth.

:crying:

 

so 3+ hours of bleeding and about 16oz of fluid and still no brakes?

 

Am i doing it wrong? i have bleed brake on a car before but never a bike, and never a linked system like this..

 

What do i do next?

 

Help! lol

[Venturous Randy]

The 83's do not have a bleed point at the top of the line near the steering. You can break the connection loose and bleed if you want. Are you also bleeding the antidive units. That is part of the system.

It sounds like you have pushed a lot of fluid thru it but not getting a peddle as in building up pressure. If you keep pumping it without bleeding, does it build up any pressure?

RandyA

[shriva]

I saw the front dive was connected to the brakes also.. bleed that too! i was bleeding anything i could find..lol

 

I pumped the brakes a good 40-50 times and still no pressure.

 

Could it be the master even though it is pumping out fluid at the bleeders?

 

 

And is that rebuildable? or do i have to get a new one?

[gmcgeo02]

My guess is the master cylinder... Yes they can be rebuilt.... It sounds like the rubber plunger is worn enough to pump fluid but is allowing fluid to pass back without pumping up pressure. Try here for the rebuild kit they are great to work with....

 

http://www.flatoutmotorcycles.com/

[Rocket]

My guess is the master cylinder... Yes they can be rebuilt.... It sounds like the rubber plunger is worn enough to pump fluid but is allowing fluid to pass back without pumping up pressure. Try here for the rebuild kit they are great to work with....

 

http://www.flatoutmotorcycles.com/

 

Yup, gave him the link a little earlier while in CHAT tonight.

 

Info I forgot to give him in chat & will last much longer here too........

 

Using a plastic turkey baster tube (without the bulb attached), bottom ridge filed off & kinda threaded into filler hole will increase fluid capacity for bleeding. I fill most of the way up the tube, when starting to do a bleed session.

[shriva]

went with one suggestion first and got a mityvac...

 

Front it bleeds it out well,

 

Back though it sucks mostly air out.. does have some fluid coming out to but its like a sputtering and mostly air.. brake res goes down a little... but very little and slowly.

 

I'm going to make sure i put some teflon tape on the bleeder threads and make sure the mityvac is tight on the bleeder... But does anyone have any idea what it could be?

 

It that a sign the the master or caliper is shot?

[shriva]

i just thought of something..

 

I remember when i was searching here for this problem somebody plugged (with a bolt i think) where the front line attaches to the rear master. So the petal only worked the back and then linked the two front together to the front brake handle.

 

Would i be able to do that to test the master?

 

Like i plug where the line comes out to the back brakes and see if the rear master works the front left brake?

 

Maybe i could do that to try and narrow down exactly what part i need to fix/replace...?

[CrazyHorse]

i just thought of something..

 

I remember when i was searching here for this problem somebody plugged (with a bolt i think) where the front line attaches to the rear master. So the petal only worked the back and then linked the two front together to the front brake handle.

 

Would i be able to do that to test the master?

 

Like i plug where the line comes out to the back brakes and see if the rear master works the front left brake?

 

Maybe i could do that to try and narrow down exactly what part i need to fix/replace...?

 

I delinked mine like that but before you do something like that which is alot of work with a bike that old has the fluid been changed in the last few years? I know you just did it but what I'm getting at is how old was the fluid before you changed it recently? If it was really old you could have brake fluid crystallization in the master cylinder (this happened to me) and bleed it forever and it still wont work and the crystals wont come out. Did you take apart the resovoir and the master and clean them out? If you haven't you maybe suprised to what you find in there. Then you can see how bad the master is.

Edited August 21, 2008 by CrazyHorse

[shriva]

The res looked super clean and the fluid looked like new, but the guy i bought it off of may have added enough new if he was trying to fix it.

 

I was just trying whatever i could before i rebuild the master..

 

But it looks like i'm not going to get lucky..hehe

 

I'll starting pulling it apart tonight i guess

[GeorgeS]

You might try, Removeing the Hose, From the Rear Caliper, And the Output of the Master Cyl, and then blow it out with compressed Air, to Make sure Its Clear.

 

Now with the Hose OFF the Rear Caliper, Install a hose on the bleeder port, and blow in low pressure Air, Just to Make sure its Clear.

 

 

Now Re Install the Hose.

 

Now, Pump Fluid INTO the Bleed Port, Useing the MytVac tool, ( yes it will work both directions, Vaccume, and pressure )

 

Do the Pumping Very slowly, with Cap off the Resorviour. You should be able to get it to overflow. IF NOT, there Is Blockage, in the Bottom of the Resovour, OR the Cylinder.

 

If you get the fluid to go in that way, Now Reverse the proceedure, try pumping, and doing the normal bleeding procedure.

 

If you have success, then Re Bleed the Left Front, and back and forth. etc etc.

 

Also, by the time you succede, your Pads will probably be soaked with Fluid, and have to be replaced.

[shriva]

I took off the rear caliper, and it apears to be stuck all the way in.. can't get them to move at all.. I sent a msg to a guy in the classifies here that was parting out 2 bikes and hes only 42 miles from me.. so i'm hoping he has the master and rear caliper and i'll just replace them all and start fresh.

 

I hooked the vac upto the hose that connects to the caliper and it gets fluid out there fine.. but heck if i can get all the parts i'll do the swap and keep these as spares if i rebuild them.

 

I am just sooooo tired of fighting it..lol

[Captain Murph]

I sent you an email about your parts request, but thought I'd jump in to the discussion too.

 

As someone once said: "I feel your pain". I had exactly the same thing happen to me on an '84 and started thrashing around with thoughts of "replace this" or "replace that".

 

Before you do anything further, go through the bleeding one more time with this specific order (after making sure rear master is completely full and plug reinstalled.

 

1. Triple tree junction fitting (just crack, you probably don't have a bleeder).

2. Front anti-dive.

3. Front caliper

4. Rear caliper

 

If you check the archives here at at www.venturers.org you'll find that some of these can be very stubborn. In particular, don't underestimate how much air can be trapped in the uphill region between the rear master and that junction at the triple tree. If you have even 1/2" to 1" area where there is air with fluid on both sides, your master will simply compress this air and not move fluid. Not only won't you get a pedal, you won't build enough pressure to move that air slug along.

 

You must get the air out from between the master and that junction first! After you get fluid out there, you are assisted by gravity in bleeding the fronts and then the rear. I've heard of some who used this technique successfully. After getting fluid at the junction and tightening up, they attached a line to the caliper bleeder (yeah, this is not the order noted above, but it is the closest to the junction), put that line in a glass jar with fluid in it and simply let the system drain overnight. If there is any trapped air it seems to be at above atmosperhic pressure and works it way down to the open end in the jar.

 

Then, making sure again the the master is full, try to build pressure with the pedal to do the anti-dive. I've heard of this technique working magic for stubborn entrained air.

 

I'll be happy to supply whatever parts you need, but (in my personal experience) parts might not be the solution.

 

Murph'

[shriva]

I'll try again tonight the way you outlined!

 

Why do they make it so hard? lol

[Condor]

I'll try again tonight the way you outlined!

 

Why do they make it so hard? lol

 

The '83VR doesn't have a bleeder valve in the top loop of the front brake line. The bleeder was added because it was such a PITA getting air out of the left front. That's what we get for owning the 'BETA' model.....

[Guest daveor]

When VTS had the first rally in Steamboat Springs, CO, there were lots of Ventures that had no back brakes, they finally figured out that going over the mountians cause air to get in the brake lines and no way to bleed them other than breaking the fitting loose at the steering head, I had front brakes with the pedal but no back, after they were bleed this way worked fine, I would guess something other than air in the line. But would bleed at the junction box by the steering head first.. DAve

[shriva]

Thanks to the master cly and rear caliper that i got from Captain Murph---> i now have brakes!

 

Still alittle spongy, but i'll finish bleeding them tomorrow (thanks god for mityvac!)

 

The problem was the rear master cyl is was just not pumping enough under pressure.

 

Thanks for all the help and suggestions from everyone! it was a real help when i felt like draging it into the Ocean.. hehe

 

Finish beeding and putting the fairing on and cleaning it up and it will just be ready in time for me to put it in the garage when the hurricane gets here..lol (I live in Alabama right on the coast)