Series vs mosfet vs shunt voltages on regulators

[iphlue]

What should the voltage be using the series style regulator? sh775, compufire, CE-605 SB etc... I'm seeing all kinds of references and some that imply as low as 12.1 might be normal at times.

 

see: http://hildstrom.com/projects/buellstator/#installedstatortest

 

I have a brand new ricks stator just installed and tested. It's putting out 25-65 volts AC depending on rpms. Ohms tests out perfect. ~0.3 ohms lead to lead 3 ways and infinite to ground. I have 2 fluke meters (professional industrial electrician btw) one clamped to the r/r output reading 12-15 AMPS at all times while simultaneously reading voltage with the other one @ as low as 12.1 volts idling with brake lights on. When first started, (which it starts fantastic now thanks to Dano's starter clutch mod! Thanks Dano!) it reads as high as 14 but quickly drops off to 13 or so and as low as 12.1 as described already. (I also replaced the battery cables to size 2. )

 

Is this a function of the r/r switching off the stator? I find some comments implying I should be around 14 volts (seems so for the FH mosfet versions) yet others as in the above link showing documentation that much lower voltages might be expected. BTW this is also a brand new AGM Yuasa battery that I filled myself and charged for a couple days with a brand new noco genius charger. So I'm sure that either this unit is defective OR this might be normal, which I am questioning.

 

I also checked the amperage output from the r/r to be about 5 amps lower than the draw on the battery going through the main fuse. Hmmm...

 

One other note. I bought what I thought was a polaris version of the sh775 but now realize I bought a "replaces xxx" unit from amazon. It's obviously working to an extent, but to me it's not keeping the voltage high enough. Or is it?

 

So what are your experiences with "proper" voltages using the series r/r?

Edited November 22, 2015 by iphlue

[camos]

I have a brand new ricks stator just installed and tested. It's putting out 25-65 volts AC depending on rpms.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure there should be about 100v AC between phases at 4000 RPM. It was a while ago that I put in a Rick's Hotshot into my 90 VR and recall it was around 100v AC. Not very certain but at a dead idle it was about 25v AC. The regulator being used was a mosfet type.

 

When riding my 89 VR which probably has a stock stator and R/R the output is 11.8v - 12,1v at a dead idle with the usual draw on the system including electric anti-dives and a pair of LED driving lights. When above 2500 RPM the output reads about 13.8v - 14.0v on a cheap digital VM that has never had the calibration tested so can't say how accurate it is.

[MikeWa]

Charging voltage has to be higher than battery voltage or the unit is not charging. Usually half a volt or more higher. But not so high as to overcharge. Unfortunately there are only two conditions available, charging or not charging. If you fall into the not charging category then it is time to find out why. Faulty component, high resistance in the circuit, to low of RPM etc. etc. Personally for starters I like to use a lab scope and look at ripple. But then I have a lab scope where most people do not. It will quickly point up a faulty leg in the stator or rectifier.

Mike

[iphlue]

After your comments, I was motivated to retake some readings and took pictures for myself so that my memory wouldn't trick me...

 

After some warm up I measured the 3 phases:

idle 14-16 volts fluctuating

4000rpm ~90 volts

4600 rpm ~100 volts

5000 (a bit over?) as much as 118 volts

 

Ohms to ground - infinite

phase to phase .5 ohms x 3 ways

 

With headlights and fan on:

Idle - 10.6A @ 12.6V (this goes down lower after a while)

4600 rpm - 22.7A @ 13.7V (and creeping up ever so slowly)

 

With Headlight and tail fuses pulled and fan off:

Idle - 9.1A @ 13.0V

4600 rpm 18.6A @ 14.0 volts

 

OK, so what do you think of these readings?

[camos]

After re-reading your original post a couple of times I'm still not sure what info you are after other than a comparison between the OEM shunt R/R and the mosfet R/R. The OEM R/R keeps the stator charging at full output, depending on RPM of course, and any extra is shunted to ground. The mosfet R/R turns down the power to the stator to control output which should put less stress on the stator. The OEM R/R needs to be attached to a heat sink in order to help out heat dissipation beyond what the rather inadequate cooling fins can provide. The mosfet does not get hot and can be mounted anywhere. In my opinion, the mosfet R/R is superior to the OEM R/R and does a better job in several ways with less stress on the stator, more accurate voltage regulation, particularly at lower RPMS. The mosfet is newer technology and not so different in price from the OEM ones which are getting more difficult to find.

 

I don't know if this is helpful and if I got something wrong someone please chime in and say so.

[iphlue]

Thanks for the reply.

I'm trying to determine if I have a defective r/r and or a weak stator. I've studied the different kinds of stators extensively and am sold on the series design. (Sh775, Sh847 or CE605) I fully understand the 3 styles and advantages of mosfet, old school shunt and series and i agree with your assessment camos. I don't seem to have adequate charging voltages! Research gives conflicting info on what these series design DC voltage output should be.

[iphlue]

I think too that I was hoping to hear from those that have installed a series style r/r and what voltages they are getting at the battery.

[MikeWa]

After your comments, I was motivated to retake some readings and took pictures for myself so that my memory wouldn't trick me...

 

After some warm up I measured the 3 phases:

idle 14-16 volts fluctuating

4000rpm ~90 volts

4600 rpm ~100 volts

5000 (a bit over?) as much as 118 volts

 

Ohms to ground - infinite

phase to phase .5 ohms x 3 ways

 

With headlights and fan on:

Idle - 10.6A @ 12.6V (this goes down lower after a while)

4600 rpm - 22.7A @ 13.7V (and creeping up ever so slowly)

 

With Headlight and tail fuses pulled and fan off:

Idle - 9.1A @ 13.0V

4600 rpm 18.6A @ 14.0 volts

 

OK, so what do you think of these readings?

 

 

I really don't see a problem with these readings. Are you having dead battery issues or some such thing?

Or are you just asking if things seem ok?

Mike

[Rick Butler]

Glenn,I've attached a fault finding diagram I found on the ElectroSport site that explains what you are asking on checking voltage. It basically boils down to GT 50VAC across each of the 3 white wires (phases) from the stator......and GT 13.5 at 2,500 rpm and LT 14.8 VDC at 5,000 rpm and the stator is just fine.

Thanks for the reply.I'm trying to determine if I have a defective r/r and or a weak stator. I've studied the different kinds of stators extensively and am sold on the series design. (Sh775, Sh847 or CE605) I fully understand the 3 styles and advantages of mosfet, old school shunt and series and i agree with your assessment camos. I don't seem to have adequate charging voltages! Research gives conflicting info on what these series design DC voltage output should be.

Electrical fault-finding-diagram.pdf

[iphlue]

Mike, I am somewhat asking if anyone thinks these readings seem ok, but more so hoping to see what voltages anyone with an actual series regulator are getting. Everything in the charging system is brand new including the battery. New stator, and a suspicious new regulator as mentioned. The link I posted earlier shows a guy testing and logging data. His data shows DC voltages lower than one would expect but his system seems to be doing ok. It's an interesting read.

 

I have ordered the CE605 from Jack at roadstercycle.com and it should be here in a couple days. I will report what the new voltages are with that regulator soon. I highly suspect the voltage will come up to expected 14.5 or at least closer to it. Jack was very helpful with questions and suggested I should have at least 16 volts increase at each 1000 rpm coming directly from stator. (AC voltages) I retested and got the following:

 

1000 rpm 24.7 VAC

2000 rpm 44.6 VAC

3000 rpm 67.7 VAC

4000 rpm 91.7 VAC

5000 rpm 113.7 VAC

6000 rpm 139.5 VAC

 

So I am at better than 16 volts increase. Roughly 20-24 volts increase per 1000 rpm which implies a good stator. I took these readings with the regulator unplugged straight from the stator leads.

 

Rick, thanks for the PDF. Looks very interesting. I glanced through about half of it so far and will have time soon to thoroughly go over it better. Too many irons in the fire at the moment, but much appreciated. I'll get back with results soon. I wanted to at least touch base this morning while I have a little bit of time.

 

Thanks for the input guys!

[Flyinfool]

I think your readings are fine.

It is normal to be partly running off the battery at idle on these bikes. Mine droops to 12.3 at idle with every thing on.

As long as the voltage is up to 13.5 to 14.5, at the battery, at cruising speed, then you are good.

Since I changed to all LED and HID lighting, the amp draw is down to where it now holds 13.5 at idle with everything on.

[iphlue]

Finally got the CE605 installed last weekend an been riding it to work finally the last two days. The CE605 has made a BIG difference in voltage readings. I have NO trouble getting the expected 14.4 volts at almost any rpm but idle. Even then its almost 13 volts and comes up quick to 14 volts @ 800 rpm.

 

So, the wanna-be r/r from amazon that is NOT a true Shindengen just doesn't cut it. I'm very happy with these readings and are what I expected in the first place.

 

I had a hell of a time figuring out where to mount this thing. Finally designed a bracket to take advantage of the extra rear footpeg bolt hole. Here's a few shots of the prototype bracket. I'll get it powder coated black soon after I make a version two that will hide the bolts.