brummers Posted October 4, 2015 Share #1 Posted October 4, 2015 1997 RS with custom exhaust, everything else is stock. Removed carbs to clean them, they have the stock jets. Put the TPS back in the original position, did not do resistance checks. Put Idle mixture screws at 2-1/2 turns out. Synched the carbs. Very hard to start when cold now. The enricher/choke does not seem to make a difference when starting. Once the engine is warm it starts up right away with no choke as it should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummers Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share #2 Posted October 4, 2015 1997 RS with custom exhaust, everything else is stock. Removed carbs to clean them, they have the stock jets. Put the TPS back in the original position, did not do resistance checks. Put Idle mixture screws at 2-1/2 turns out. Synched the carbs. Very hard to start when cold now. The enricher/choke does not seem to make a difference when starting. Once the engine is warm it starts up right away with no choke as it should. I got it started this morning, and the lights were pulsing and flickering. So I thought this was a fuel or air problem but it may be spark related. I was able to measure the voltage at the battery terminals while it was idling and got 12.8V:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSky Posted October 4, 2015 Share #3 Posted October 4, 2015 Check the voltage when revved up a little. Lots of motorcycle alternators don't produce enough voltage to power everything at idle. If the voltage when revved up is at 13.5 to 14.5 volts it should be okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummers Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share #4 Posted October 4, 2015 Check the voltage when revved up a little. Lots of motorcycle alternators don't produce enough voltage to power everything at idle. If the voltage when revved up is at 13.5 to 14.5 volts it should be okay. OK, after warmed up with a little throttle I was at 13.8V, so probably OK. Im just racking my brain to think of what I could have done while cleaning the carbs to make it so hard to start, but runs fine once warm. I didnt adjust the floats, left them as is. Could I be flooding out right away? (I did one carb at a time so I didnt mix up any parts). I put the carb body in the Berryman's Chemdip with almost everything removed except the enricher plungers and butterfly valves. I didnt have a thinwall socket to fit the enricher nut to remove the plunger, but I figured there were no o-rings or plastics in there that would be harmed by the Chemdip. Time in Chemdip was 25 minutes. I think thats my next steps, float height adjustment, & inspect enricher plunger (Item #26 in attached picture). I left the plunger, spring, and retainer (rightmost 3 components of #26) in the carb body while in the Chemdip. TIA for any advice/experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSky Posted October 5, 2015 Share #5 Posted October 5, 2015 There is a diaphragm in the enrichment valve. The carb cleaner could have ruined it. I think you can remove them without removing the carbs from the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummers Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share #6 Posted October 5, 2015 This is the best photo I could find of the starter for the 28mm carbs on my '97. I've marked what I left in the carb body and was subject to the Berryman's Chem-Dip cleaner. It appears there is a non metallic bushing or sealing surface on that piston. Can anyone confirm this? Does the enrichment valve add more fuel for starting or lessen the air? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowpuc Posted October 5, 2015 Share #7 Posted October 5, 2015 [ATTACH=CONFIG]101895[/ATTACH] This is the best photo I could find of the starter for the 28mm carbs on my '97. I've marked what I left in the carb body and was subject to the Berryman's Chem-Dip cleaner. It appears there is a non metallic bushing or sealing surface on that piston. Can anyone confirm this? Does the enrichment valve add more fuel for starting or lessen the air? Yes, that is a rubber surface imbedded into the choke "piston".. The system works by that piston being pulled open which opens a passage way for fuel to be pulled from the float bowl and moved into the carb throat.. It is adds fuel, and does not lessen the air.. If it were mine I would see if I could remove the choke assembly rods (rod with piston) without removing the carbs.. Open the drain valves on the carbs, take some carb cleaner and place the little straw thingy on the carb cleaner - slide it down the hole where that piston slides and try to squirt thru the passage way until I was getting carb cleaner out of the carb drains. Take a close look at the seals imbedded in the pistons (those are not replaceable to my knowledge - you have to buy the whole piston and shaft to replace the seal) - make sure they are still nice and flat - not bloated from the Chemdip.. Also,, before you do anything,, work the choke on your scoot and make sure those piston arms are being pulled all the way out.. If they are not being pulled all the way out because the mechanism is out of adjustment, the choke will not work enough to cold start.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummers Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share #8 Posted October 5, 2015 I've confirmed the piston arms are being pulled out on all 4 carbs. I'll remove and inspect the enrichment pistons this week and share some pictures of their condition. Thanks for the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiCarl Posted October 5, 2015 Share #9 Posted October 5, 2015 For anyone who comes upon this in the future: You should not soak carburetors unless ALL the rubber bits are removed. This includes the seals on the butterfly shafts, which are not designed to be serviceable. Those seals are the reason we never soak carburetor bodies, instead cleaning with spray cleaner and compressed air. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazmocycle Posted October 9, 2015 Share #10 Posted October 9, 2015 You may want to look at the choke cable adjustment and see if it is closing the butterflies all the way shut. The adjustment is on the broad arm that goes across from side to side of the carburetor. I have found that sometimes if the cable is not adjusted right, it can not close the butterflies all the way. Also the pull cable maybe broke and not pulling enough, usually it breaks where the cable and threaded piece joins. I made a video of setting the flow height, which is about 9 mm. Also look at the floats and make sure they are level with each other, I have seen them more than a millimeter different. You get running and enjoy the ride! http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?75252-checking-float-level-on-96-01-royal-star-28mm-carbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummers Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share #11 Posted October 10, 2015 You may want to look at the choke cable adjustment and see if it is closing the butterflies all the way shut. The adjustment is on the broad arm that goes across from side to side of the carburetor. I have found that sometimes if the cable is not adjusted right, it can not close the butterflies all the way. Also the pull cable maybe broke and not pulling enough, usually it breaks where the cable and threaded piece joins. I made a video of setting the flow height, which is about 9 mm. Also look at the floats and make sure they are level with each other, I have seen them more than a millimeter different. You get running and enjoy the ride! http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?75252-checking-float-level-on-96-01-royal-star-28mm-carbs I plan to check the float height, thanks for the video and instruction, tazmocycle. As promised here are a few pictures of the Chem-Dip carnage. I've learned my lesson for sure! Carb cleaner and compressed air from now on. They could probably be cleaned up and salvaged, but I have new ones on the way. I just can't trust the rubber after the chemical bath/attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazmocycle Posted October 25, 2015 Share #12 Posted October 25, 2015 seafoam in a small pan to soak and brush off debris does good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummers Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share #13 Posted October 30, 2015 In the end, leaving the enrichment valves in the carb bodies hindered flushing those ports of the Chem-Dip. I found that in 3 of the 4 carbs, the ports from the fuel bowl to the enrichment valve was completely plugged. I got them all cleaned and she started right up. I still have some popping on decel. I was able to use some spray carb cleaner and/or propane to verify I am leaking in air on my intake manifolds. #2 and #4 are the worst, but I am having trouble determining exactly where the leak is. I get an increase in revs if I hold some propane near the bottom the carb AND near the bottom of the intake boot. Propane is heavier than air, so I think my leak is at the bottom of the boot. I used a little silicone grease and the carbs popped on nicely. I tightened all 4 bands and triple checked them. The synch ports all have new plugs. What is the experience with where the intake boots leak? Do they loosen up over the years and just need to be removed cleaned and reseated? Thanks for all the help so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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