Electronic Fuel Injection

[Joe West]

Hi all. I own a 1996 Tour Classic with quite a few miles on it and I'm considering buying a new bike after the winter.

 

I looked at the Yamaha website and was surprised to see the Venture still has carburators.

 

Does anyone know if there will be a fuel injected model? I hope so cause the next option is gonna have to be the Kawasaki Voyager if not.

[Mikealiasmike]

Welcome to Ventureriders where Ventures are like the movie Groundhog Day. They just keep repeating and repeating. Cassette, Carbs, Cassette, Carbs...

Welcome to Ventureriders where Ventures are like the movie Groundhog Day. They just keep repeating and repeating. Cassette, Carbs, Cassette, Carbs...

Welcome to Ventureriders where Ventures are like the movie Groundhog Day. They just keep repeating and repeating. Cassette, Carbs, Cassette, Carbs...

 

OK you get the pic. No fuel injection on ANY Ventures unless someones spent and found a way to put it on. Far as anyone here knows theres nothing planned for 2011 either.

[jfoster]

Your guess is as good as anyone else's on that... I wouldn't wait on Yamaha, they may drop the RSV along with the RSTD line all together for a couple of years (history always repeats itself). If a '11 RSV costs $20k, I would hate to see what they would want for a 3rd Gen.

[Jerry W]

We have guys on here that know what Yamaha is going to do every year.

[Joe West]

We have guys on here that know what Yamaha is going to do every year.

 

Thanks for the replies, and If you are right Jerry, (and I believe you are, that's why I asked) they better get on the stick and let us know cause when april rolls around, damn, that Kawasaki is looking good ....

[Stoutman]

I have to admit I'd like to have fuel injection on my bike. On the other hand this bike's carb setup is about the most reliable one I've ever owned. On top of that I know I at least stand a chance of fixing it myself if I have to.

 

I told myself I would buy a new bike when the warranty ran out on this one, but darned if I didn't grow to like the thing. Guess I'll put up with a few scratches and old school features for the comfort and reliability of my RSTD.

[Joe West]

Well, I'll tell ya, I just road tested the new Kawasaki 1700 Voyager. Here's my official results.

 

It sits about 3 inches higher than my 96 Tour Classic even though it's advertised as being a lower seat height. I'm not a tall guy (5'6") and I found it slightly dangerous for me even with my wife on the back I had to tip toe at stops. That's not good.

 

It is down on power (by my own guestimation) about 30 to 40 percent from my Tour Classic. YEAH, that much. It's a hound dog, although once on the highway 6th gear makes for a nice ride.

 

Construction is not as good as the Yamaha, the frame looks cheaper also.

 

I told the dealer, I'd be back to see him when he got in the new Yamaha.

 

Bottom line, the carbs don't seem so bad anymore. Boy I had high hopes for that Kawasaki. Oh well.

Edited September 10, 2010 by Joe West

[alkirer]

The only place that I have had any problems with carburated bikes was out west,Higher elevation. When we rode up Pikes Peak and Wolf Creek Pass I could tell that I lost some power, But all things being relative I still like the Carbs!!!

[hunter 1500]

When I bought my bike I was at the dealer to look at the Kawasaki and I sat on it and couldn't flat foot it and didn't like that. Also wasn't crazy about the way the faring looked.

I saw the RSTD siting there and checked it out and it was a 08 leftover and this was labor day weekend last year so it probably would have sat there for anouther winter. I bought it for $12,500 and they gave me 5k for my 03 LC1500 and that deal was to hard to pass up. I have about 12k on the bike so far and have made a few changes to make it fit me and love it.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

In 2012 they will add fuel injection. In 2013 they will add an ipod connector with full handlebar controls for it. In 2014 they will subtract the cassette player and add a set of digital gauges with GPS in that spot. In 2015.5 they will upgrade the GPS data. In 2016 they will finally fix the gear whine, and bump the CC's up to 1800. In 2017 they will add ABS braking and multimode traction control. In 2018 they will add HID lighting, and add bluetooth cell phone integration, and upgrade the stock tires to Dunlop E3. In 2019 they will drop the price from over 20 grand to just under $14,300, add 12 more color selections, and add on a 10 year fender-to-fender to warranty for an optional $12.95.

 

In the year 2020 they will add dual turbos, 2 more cylinders, and bump the CC's to 2400. Price will stay the same. They will also implement a trade-your-scoot program, and any trade-in, even a junker, will get you a $5,000 discount.

 

However, by then the gas prices will be $45 a gallon and they will only sell 22 units world-wide.

 

Or not.

[MikeWa]

A couple of friends and I recently went on a trip around Mts. St Helens and Rainier. There was one 2009 Ultra Glide, a 2010 Victory and my 2008 Venture. We rode some nice twisties and some straight stretches. In the end I averaged 47.04 mpg with my old carburetor technology while the Victory did 46 mpg to the Ultras 42 mpg. To be fair the Ultra had a 102 kit installed which hadn't been properly tuned yet. What was most noticeable though was in the 40 to 55 mph twisties my Venture was far better in mileage than either of the other two bikes. But on the freeway over about 65 mph the lack of a sixth gear really showed and both of the other bikes got better mileage than me for that portion of the trip. All in all I don't think I am ready to trade in the carbs yet but a sixth gear sure would be nice.

Mike

[CalhounWV]

Companies care about bottom line.

 

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-news/statistics/motorcycle-sales-statistics.htm

 

I dont think we will see any new changes until sales pick up industry wide. Then... maybe yamaha will take a chance on updating the Royal Star line.

 

Actually, I dont mind the carburators.

 

The V4 1300 has been around for a long time, it has proven itself a good engine. There are plenty of used parts available (less expensive) and a lots of threads here on "do it yourself" again saving me $$$

[LilBeaver]

In 2012 they will add fuel injection. In 2013 they will add an ipod connector with full handlebar controls for it. In 2014 they will subtract the cassette player and add a set of digital gauges with GPS in that spot. In 2015.5 they will upgrade the GPS data. In 2016 they will finally fix the gear whine, and bump the CC's up to 1800. In 2017 they will add ABS braking and multimode traction control. In 2018 they will add HID lighting, and add bluetooth cell phone integration, and upgrade the stock tires to Dunlop E3. In 2019 they will drop the price from over 20 grand to just under $14,300, add 12 more color selections, and add on a 10 year fender-to-fender to warranty for an optional $12.95.

 

In the year 2020 they will add dual turbos, 2 more cylinders, and bump the CC's to 2400. Price will stay the same. They will also implement a trade-your-scoot program, and any trade-in, even a junker, will get you a $5,000 discount.

 

However, by then the gas prices will be $45 a gallon and they will only sell 22 units world-wide.

 

Or not.

 

You forgot about the all wheel drive.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

A couple of friends and I recently went on a trip around Mts. St Helens and Rainier. There was one 2009 Ultra Glide, a 2010 Victory and my 2008 Venture. We rode some nice twisties and some straight stretches. In the end I averaged 47.04 mpg with my old carburetor technology while the Victory did 46 mpg to the Ultras 42 mpg. To be fair the Ultra had a 102 kit installed which hadn't been properly tuned yet. What was most noticeable though was in the 40 to 55 mph twisties my Venture was far better in mileage than either of the other two bikes. But on the freeway over about 65 mph the lack of a sixth gear really showed and both of the other bikes got better mileage than me for that portion of the trip. All in all I don't think I am ready to trade in the carbs yet but a sixth gear sure would be nice.

Mike

 

Thats a great write up, and fun was had by all...BUT:

 

These bikes don't need another gear. Both 4th and 5th are already technically 'overdrive' gears: In 4th the output shaft is turning SLIGHTLY faster than the crankshaft, and in 5th it is turning quite a bit faster.

 

These bikes have a robust wide-ratio transmission, and adding another gear would cause 2 negative effects: One, the individual gears would probably have to be slightly thinner, resulting in more wear, and less strength. And two, if the top gear was a taller ratio, it would result in the engine turning lower RPMs, leaving the engine farther out of its power band, and possibly consuming MORE fuel at say, 75-80 mph. The larger displacement V-twins, which have a torque peak lower in the RPM range, DO benefit from turning slower at highway speeds.

 

What DOES hurt fuel mileage on the RSV is the very dirty aerodynamic profile, caused mainly by the large frontal area of the fairing, windshield, radiator, and lower cowlings. These all catch a large amount of wind at high speed. Also, the fact that our bikes are using energy to drive a water pump, causes a slight loss in horsepower. And, a shaft drive bike like ours with two 90 degree power transitions will NOT transfer as much power to the rear wheel as the belt drives in the V-twins, resulting in slightly higher fuel consumption, because of the less efficient shaft drive system.

 

Some owners have swapped out the rear drive for a higher performance, lower gear ratio, V-Max rear, and report nearly equivalent fuel mileage.

 

Many owners have tested this theory, by cruising at highway speeds in 4th gear for a whole tankful. Some have gotten BETTER fuel mileage. The V4 motor is working in its 'happy' zone at higher RPM, and getting better fuel mileage, due to higher efficiencies.

 

If I was going to speculate here, I would guess that a direct-drive transmission, (possibly belt drive!), with properly increased rear drive ratio, along with better aerodynamics, and fuel injection, would make a positive difference of maybe 5-10 percent. But since I'm not in the motorcycle building business, I guess we will never know.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

You forgot about the all wheel drive.

 

I didnt mention it, but the company IS looking at a self-powered, carbon-fiber-over-titanium, factory trailer, which will include hybrid and fuel-cell technologies, slated for introduction sometime around 2025. Engineers say it COULD add up to 300 additional horsepower.

 

It will also include a 6000 watt sound system, self inflating tire pressure monitor, and 4, count'em, FOUR cupholders!

[Dave77459]

What DOES hurt fuel mileage on the RSV is the very dirty aerodynamic profile,

 

*snip*

 

Many owners have tested this theory, by cruising at highway speeds in 4th gear for a whole tankful. Some have gotten BETTER fuel mileage. The V4 motor is working in its 'happy' zone at higher RPM, and getting better fuel mileage, due to higher efficiencies.

I hate to agree with you, because people will start doubting me, but my RSTD has an incredibly bad aerodynamic profile. On the other hand, when it rains I stay dry. If I can keep it under 60, I get really good mpg, especially if I am not running 10% ethanol. Good luck on either of those, though.

 

On your second point, I ran in 4th gear almost all the way from Lubbock to Albuquerque. I was towing the trailer and wanted to stick to the powerband. I didn't keep track of the exacts, but I got better mileage than I did riding from Houston to Lubbock using the 5th gear.

 

After that, I stayed in 4th unless I was cruising down hill at a good clip.

 

As a rough comparo, before when I traveled 70 mph with the trailer, I got about 90 miles before my low fuel indicator came on. Running in mainly 4th gear, I got 100 miles, and even 120 miles once (when I was in slow sections coincidentally without ethanol). The better economy was noticeable.

 

(BTW, on the 80 mph section of I-10, I got 80 miles before I saw the low fuel warning.)

 

Dave

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I hate to agree with you, because people will start doubting me....

 

I never took the entrance exam here, so I have no IDEA who I'm supposed to agree with either!

 

 

[LilBeaver]

Zipcode: Glad to see you are still alive!

 

I never took the entrance exam here, so I have no IDEA who I'm supposed to agree with either!

 

 

 

I don't know who I'm supposed to agree with, but I learned quickly there are a few that you aren't supposed to disagree with! :witch_brew:

[CaptainJoe]

Dang Nabbbit, I need SHIELDS for all this wildlife I'm encountering... Maybe 2030?

[MikeWa]

These bikes don't need another gear. Both 4th and 5th are already technically 'overdrive' gears: In 4th the output shaft is turning SLIGHTLY faster than the crankshaft, and in 5th it is turning quite a bit faster.

 

 

Fourth gear at 24/25 (.960/1) is so close to 1/1 it is not worth quibbling over. But you are right fifth is overdrive and it provides a good power band. I would still like to have a sixth gear. Shorten the first five a little and add a sixth would be ideal or change to a lower final drive and add a sixth. They could use the v-max final drive as it is already in production. Or just add a sixth. I'm sorry but on a straight and level road nothing improves fuel economy like lower rpm. If you are on and off the throttle for hills and curves where lugging is an issue sure third or fourth are better options but I would like to have a sixth on the bike. My personal opinion and I am sticking to it.

Mike