Midrsv Posted September 16, 2009 Share #1 Posted September 16, 2009 I've got a question for the firefighters. What type of fire do you use a 105 ft ladder truck on? Our local volunteer fire department spent over $750,000 on a truck similar to the one pictured here and the chief has stated that it is too big to go down many of the county roads in the district and on others it shouldn't be driven more than 30 mph. It seems to me that this type of apparatus is better suited for urban areas with high-rise buildings. Not rural developments where the houses or buildings are more than 100' from the road. Does this make sense or am I missing something? DT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dano Posted September 16, 2009 Share #2 Posted September 16, 2009 Only thing I can think of out here is grain bins, some of them can get pretty tall. I haven't heard of one of them catching fire around here, though. If we needed one, the big city's not that far away. Might've been some "stimulus" money was involved with that. They'll let you spend money on something you don't need, but not for something you do need. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddyRich Posted September 16, 2009 Share #3 Posted September 16, 2009 You know some of them trees in KY get pretty tall. Must be for gettin the cat down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Terror Posted September 16, 2009 Share #4 Posted September 16, 2009 Ok I understand your question and here is your answer. You cant just think vertical you have to think reach. That kind of truck can reach up to 4 stories if you area almost straight up but you dont want to be in that position. You set the truck up so that if the closest wall collapses you wont crush the truck. Also you use it as a arial water platform. Basically when you get big fire and you need large quantities of water this is the ideal tool. A closed lumber yard inour town went on fire a few months ago. We needed 8 of those trucks to control it and protect the surrounding houses. Now the biggest factor. Insurance companies probably required it. Believe it or not your home insurance is factored including required fire protection and response times. Meaning if you have a quick responding FD that is properly equipt your overall home insurance and business insurance will be lower. In our town they require 2 ladders and have even suggest locations within the district as to where they should be. Basically look at it this way. large house goes on fire and is cooking. Firefighters need to safely get on the roof with equiptment. You cant park this truck on the lawn as the outriggers used to brace the truck would sink and the truck could tip. Now you can set up on the road and reach the house on your average lawn. We have used ours for rescues when you need a stable platform over a hole and ours is equipt with a winch and we have even used it for Ice rescues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragerman Posted September 16, 2009 Share #5 Posted September 16, 2009 Well you can put away the buckets when that baby comes roll’n in!! If you don’t have any tall buildings in your district perhaps they’re planning to build some. The other thing that could come into play is ‘Mutual Aid’ considerations. That’s where one district will support another with manpower and/or equipment and visa versa. It’s also a great tool for industrial compounds, yard fires (such as scrap yards or used tires) or fuel storage facilities. They’re also quite handy when protecting exposures and certainly when distance is a matter for firefighter safety. Put it this way, if you have it, you can use it and in that situation if you didn’t have it you might wish you did. I’m sure the department will be proud of their new apparatus and take very good care of it. We’ve come a long way from the horse drawn pumpers, wooden ladders and buckets and that’s a good thing! Congratulations!! On another note, as our winter is on approach and we’ll eventually be looking to turn on the heat please remember Fire Prevention. Make sure your chimneys are clear, smoke detectors are working (install new batteries and replace the detector if it’s 10 years or older) and that all combustibles are properly stored (including the fuel can for the scoot). A little common sense and you won’t have to worry about getting those nice shinny trucks dirty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midrsv Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted September 16, 2009 Thanks for the replies. This truck will be housed in an outlying area near some nice homes and the fire house is on the county line. There are no industrial complexes within the district. Those that are in the county fall within the city limits and are served by the city fire department. 90% of the area this truck serves is rural farm land which has small county roads with low hanging trees. In addition, probably 70% of the area does not have water hydrants. I'm no firefighter but to me this truck looks like an overkill for this district and in fact may be the wrong truck to pull out for most of the area if you can't get to the fire quickly. How many men will it take to pull that truck out of the firehouse? Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Terror Posted September 16, 2009 Share #7 Posted September 16, 2009 Without knowing how the truck will be used I think you already decided its a waste. You should open you mind and maybe look online for some fireground used trucks like that. OSHA sets lots of the requrements and quite possible they were told they had to have it. To operate that truck it can be done with two but usually it should roll with a crew of 5-6. I can list the seat and job assignments if you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midrsv Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share #8 Posted September 16, 2009 Without knowing how the truck will be used I think you already decided its a waste. You should open you mind and maybe look online for some fireground used trucks like that. OSHA sets lots of the requrements and quite possible they were told they had to have it. To operate that truck it can be done with two but usually it should roll with a crew of 5-6. I can list the seat and job assignments if you wish. Scottt, thanks for the information. I am trying to learn more and be open minded. It's just that this is a volunteer fire department with limited financial resources and I am questioning if it is prudent to tie up so much capital in one apparatus that may have limited use. Could the funds have been better spent on two smaller trucks that could provide faster on scene response times? Please don't read this wrong, I fully support the fire fighters. They are fine group of guys that are very professional in their duties and they deserve the finest equipment to provide for their personal safety and to get the job done. I sometimes just question the wisdom of the fire board that controls the expenditures. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adventurer Posted September 16, 2009 Share #9 Posted September 16, 2009 the fire district in our town purchased a 105' ladder 10 years ago because there is a four story nursing home in the area, even though the home pays no taxes we are required to have a ladder. it also is used to reach homes set back from the road where a pumper can't get in close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragerman Posted September 16, 2009 Share #10 Posted September 16, 2009 Dennis your questions and concerns are very valid, I would suggest talking to the Chief and asking him why they decided on such a tuck. Rest assure, there will be a response protocol for that truck and members will have to be certified on it before it goes into service. It’s not likely the aerial will roll on all the calls and there may be some restrictions due to size and weight, but then again don’t underestimate this truck in skilled hands. It’s not a toy and I feel confident in saying it won’t be used as such, I hope they never have to use it! Although it’s a volunteer department they are still expected to provide the same level of protection (duty of care) as a full time department. It’s often a challenge for volunteer departments to maintain that level of proficiency due to the low call frequency however they mustmeet requirements in terms of training, equipment and national standards. I have worked in underground mine rescue, city volunteer and airport crash fire rescue and believe me for what is expected of us you can NEVER have too many tools! Too often departments are satisfied to meet minimum requirements and don’t buy into the future, but then again there may be something, even one building, that justifies that particular vehicle. That truck is a pumper with a ladder, if it has a holding tank it will only carry enough water to charge the lines while port-a-tanks are set up and additional water arrives. But that’ the same with all pumpers unless you work at an airport with the large foam trucks that have huge carrying capacities, they rely on volume for bulk fuel fires. I’m sure there is a method to the madness and it usually has to do with accountability, dollars & cents or spending grant money that they will otherwise loose. It could be that they also got a good deal on this truck for the same price as a smaller one, sorry but I don’t have all the facts and it really is hard to say. We received delivery of new trucks up at the airport that don’t even fit through the station doors and have to be housed in a hanger, guess who’s getting a bigger firehall! Boy, if we have to roll those puppies you’ll know there is a problem. If you do find out more please let us know, one thing for sure is that the boys in the station will be busy and the department may be looking for some new recruits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leland Posted September 16, 2009 Share #11 Posted September 16, 2009 You know some of them trees in KY get pretty tall. Must be for gettin the cat down... Anybody ever seen a cat skeleton in a tree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestarmedic Posted September 17, 2009 Share #12 Posted September 17, 2009 Tartan listed it very well. In addition to the usual fire fighting jobs, it may have a good sized pump and a foam system on board. This would allow the water to do several things. Class A foam makes water penetrate better and put out a fire quickly with very little water. Think of smothering with fluffy shaving cream. Very little water damage and quick. Class B foam is for petroleum fires. Blankets the spill and smothers the fire. Also, an aerial has lots of space for rescue tools. It may house the hydraulic tools, air bags, and probably generator and portable lights. It is large and takes skill to operate. But, look under the ladder before you judge. I do agree a rural or small suburban department might not need this truck that often. Also as suggested, what did it do to the ISO ratings for insurance? Might just benefit the residents in insurance reductions. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midrsv Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted September 17, 2009 Thanks for all of the input. That's what I was looking for. I feel a bit better about the purpose of the unit just not happy about the way it was purchased and I won't go into that here. I'll just say it was not purchased with grant money and the subdistrict that I live in is strapped with the entire note which is about $588,000. I and other residents feel that money could have been better spent on providing a couple of firefighters on duty full time utilizing the very good equipment they already have. The ladder truck is no doubt a very good piece of equipment but in this rural area that has a part time manned firehouse, if a fire breaks out in the off hours, after 8:00 pm someone (probably more than one person) has to make it to the firehouse and roll the truck for the call. I only live 1/2 mile from that firehouse and I would prefer that the firefighters already be there and roll immediately with the very good Freightliner engine that they currently have which is a 1200 gallon pumper. I just may have to seek a seat on the county Fire Board. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dano Posted September 17, 2009 Share #14 Posted September 17, 2009 Hey Dennis, I can understand where you're coming from. I was on the Board when we put together our VFD in our township back in 99. Man, what a PITA. You've got guys telling you this is what you've got to have, others saying you don't. We got lucky, got some equipment from the DNR, Guard and a couple of other dep'ts that were getting newer vehicles. Finally got rid of the chief that thought we had to have everything under the sun, got one in that actually talked to the other dep'ts around us as to what they had for reciprocity runs. Now we've got a decent dep't that has what they need, upgrading equip. when possible without ruining the budget. We straddle I-74, so we have to be equipped for that scenario, plus a big casino/horsetrack just outside the district plus a small airport. I feel for you and the folks in your district. Hopefully you'll find out whats going on. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bj66 Posted September 17, 2009 Share #15 Posted September 17, 2009 Ok I understand your question and here is your answer. You cant just think vertical you have to think reach. That kind of truck can reach up to 4 stories if you area almost straight up but you dont want to be in that position. You set the truck up so that if the closest wall collapses you wont crush the truck. Also you use it as a arial water platform. Basically when you get big fire and you need large quantities of water this is the ideal tool. A closed lumber yard inour town went on fire a few months ago. We needed 8 of those trucks to control it and protect the surrounding houses. Now the biggest factor. Insurance companies probably required it. Believe it or not your home insurance is factored including required fire protection and response times. Meaning if you have a quick responding FD that is properly equipt your overall home insurance and business insurance will be lower. In our town they require 2 ladders and have even suggest locations within the district as to where they should be. Basically look at it this way. large house goes on fire and is cooking. Firefighters need to safely get on the roof with equiptment. You cant park this truck on the lawn as the outriggers used to brace the truck would sink and the truck could tip. Now you can set up on the road and reach the house on your average lawn. We have used ours for rescues when you need a stable platform over a hole and ours is equipt with a winch and we have even used it for Ice rescues. What he said! The reach makes a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradT Posted September 17, 2009 Share #16 Posted September 17, 2009 Very interesting post. Even learned something. Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bj66 Posted September 17, 2009 Share #17 Posted September 17, 2009 Scottt, thanks for the information. I am trying to learn more and be open minded. It's just that this is a volunteer fire department with limited financial resources and I am questioning if it is prudent to tie up so much capital in one apparatus that may have limited use. Could the funds have been better spent on two smaller trucks that could provide faster on scene response times? Please don't read this wrong, I fully support the fire fighters. They are fine group of guys that are very professional in their duties and they deserve the finest equipment to provide for their personal safety and to get the job done. I sometimes just question the wisdom of the fire board that controls the expenditures. Dennis Another thing to consider, if this is a smaller volunteer department, they are more than likely trying to look ahead for as many possibilities as they can think of. I come from a small rural vol. dept. as well. I still think of when we just got our new truck, and when i do the math, its almost 20 years old already. Time to replace, so they just may be looking ahead for as many different possibilities as they can, cause its got to last em a long time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Terror Posted September 17, 2009 Share #18 Posted September 17, 2009 I know how you feel about the Ladder truck. I want to know how you feel about the Fire SUV! [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSiwoKCiy-s]YouTube - Driving the Fire SUV[/ame] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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