oil analysis the real facts

[Snarley Bill]

At normal operating temps there is NO difference in viscosity between 15w-40 and 5w-40 if all that I've read over the years is correct. The 'w' number is a flow rating at very cold temps...not exactly sure what the actual temp is that is used for the test. The other number is the viscosity (flow capability) at higher temps where your engine runs. In fact, the 5w-40 probably offers more protection for your engine, not less, due to its ability to flow quickly to your engine parts when temps are low...like at a cold start.

That Rotella 5w-40 is used big time in the trucking industry and other heavy duty applications. They wouldn't be using it if it offered less protection at a higher price.

 

Joe[/quote i will probably switch from the rotella t 15w-40 dino to the 5w-40 rotella t synthetic for the winter in my v-twins. i will stay with the mobil1 10w-30 extended performance in my wing year round. from all these posts i agree any premium grade oil of the right viscosity will work fine. being a perfectionist and a machinist, i always take things to the extreme. linda calls me mister overkill. i have been intrigued with oil since i was a teen and started dragracing and building race motors. it once was top secret info. now the net. is full of info and i am in 7th heaven. i wish i would have been an oil engineer. it is important to me to have the best oil for each engine, that is available. all engines have a little bit different caracteristics and require a slightly different type of oil. for maximum perfect lubrication. like i said i am overkill on everything and the challenge is for me is to give my engines exactly what they need. the clutch slipage controversy does'nt even enter my mind. never had one slip, and i have had and still do have a hot bike. i can fix clutches. never had a failer do to oil in my entire 53 years of riding. this thread kind of went awry but i find the different opinions very interesting. keep them coming. bill :clap2:

[Freebird]

I use Mobil 1 Racing 4T for motorcycles and have used it since 1999. I am not saying that it is the best but I have complete confidence in it and will continue to use it. I also have heard nothing but good things about Amsoil and have no doubt that it is probably as good as Mobil 1. I hate hearing over and over though that all these independent tests have proven that Amsoil is the better oil. I have yet to see evidence of such "independent" tests. Every one that I have seen was actually funded by Amsoil.

[Snarley Bill]

I use Mobil 1 Racing 4T for motorcycles and have used it since 1999. I am not saying that it is the best but I have complete confidence in it and will continue to use it. I also have heard nothing but good things about Amsoil and have no doubt that it is probably as good as Mobil 1. I hate hearing over and over though that all these independent tests have proven that Amsoil is the better oil. I have yet to see evidence of such "independent" tests. Every one that I have seen was actually funded by Amsoil.

i think amsoil will probably test out as a top oil but i think mobil one will to. the problem i have with amsoil is the amway style sales gimic. put it on all the shelves like the rest of the oils. it is a 100% pao base oil motor oil. amsoil buys thier pao's from exxon mobil. i am just a little leery of buying off brand named things. i feel shell and mobil probably have the finest oil labs and scientists in the world. so i have to go with them.

[dynodon]

Please note that Amsoil is not a pyramid, or other type sales "gimmick".

 

You become a dealer for a set fee. You buy product at a set price, the exact same price as any dealer in the country. You sell it for what you want, although Amsoil has a suggested retail price. You get to keep the difference between what you pay and what you sell it for.

 

Now, there IS a commission structure, that gives you a percent back of what you sell over set amounts.

 

Also, if you start others in the "business", you can earn a set percent of what THEY sell, but it doesn't come out of their income, it comes from Amsoil. The more dealers you have and the more they sell, the more you make. Plain and simple. There is no pyramid because everyone starts at the exact same point, and EVERYONE has the exact same potential. You get what you earn. Nothing could be more fair.

 

When I ask someone to become a dealer I give them the info, and leave them alone. If they ask for help, I give it, but I don't require meetings, and neither does Amsoil. They leave me alone if I want, and I can attend meetings if I want. How is this a "gimmick"?

 

Amsoil IS available on the shelf, any retailer can carry it, but many retailers won't carry a product they can't make 50% to 100% mark up on. Amsoil is not priced that way, it is a premium product, and in order to be somewhat competitive, it will have a mark-up of about 15-25% at most. So when you buy other oils at lower prices, you are still paying a huge mark-up.

 

You can buy Amsoil direct on-line or by phone. Their shipping rates are very low. Everyone pays the same shipping. I called Monday for some motorcycle oil, and it arrived at my door today (Tuesday). 24 hours later and I didn't have to spend any time or gas money to drive and pick it up. IF I order several items at once, cost per item is super low.

 

BTW, Amsoil was the first synthetic oil....the first. So all the others are the "off brands" if you will. Mobil 1 is good stuff, but Amsoil tests better in every test, yes, some tests are by Amsoil, but many are independent. Just takes a few searches to find plenty of examples, won't clutter the site with them now.

 

I don't mind if people don't want to buy a product, or believe in the "opportunity" but I do prefer that people have their facts straight and not spread false information about a very good company that is helping many people build a real business and make a real income. They also have a lot of dealers like me that just like the product and buy their wife a nice dinner once in a while from the checks.

[V7Goose]

Sure sounds just like AMwaySpecialOIL to me. I'll stick with Shell.

Goose

[Snarley Bill]

Please note that Amsoil is not a pyramid, or other type sales "gimmick".

 

You become a dealer for a set fee. You buy product at a set price, the exact same price as any dealer in the country. You sell it for what you want, although Amsoil has a suggested retail price. You get to keep the difference between what you pay and what you sell it for.

 

Now, there IS a commission structure, that gives you a percent back of what you sell over set amounts.

 

Also, if you start others in the "business", you can earn a set percent of what THEY sell, but it doesn't come out of their income, it comes from Amsoil. The more dealers you have and the more they sell, the more you make. Plain and simple. There is no pyramid because everyone starts at the exact same point, and EVERYONE has the exact same potential. You get what you earn. Nothing could be more fair.

 

When I ask someone to become a dealer I give them the info, and leave them alone. If they ask for help, I give it, but I don't require meetings, and neither does Amsoil. They leave me alone if I want, and I can attend meetings if I want. How is this a "gimmick"?

 

Amsoil IS available on the shelf, any retailer can carry it, but many retailers won't carry a product they can't make 50% to 100% mark up on. Amsoil is not priced that way, it is a premium product, and in order to be somewhat competitive, it will have a mark-up of about 15-25% at most. So when you buy other oils at lower prices, you are still paying a huge mark-up.

 

You can buy Amsoil direct on-line or by phone. Their shipping rates are very low. Everyone pays the same shipping. I called Monday for some motorcycle oil, and it arrived at my door today (Tuesday). 24 hours later and I didn't have to spend any time or gas money to drive and pick it up. IF I order several items at once, cost per item is super low.

 

BTW, Amsoil was the first synthetic oil....the first. So all the others are the "off brands" if you will. Mobil 1 is good stuff, but Amsoil tests better in every test, yes, some tests are by Amsoil, but many are independent. Just takes a few searches to find plenty of examples, won't clutter the site with them now.

 

I don't mind if people don't want to buy a product, or believe in the "opportunity" but I do prefer that people have their facts straight and not spread false information about a very good company that is helping many people build a real business and make a real income. They also have a lot of dealers like me that just like the product and buy their wife a nice dinner once in a while from the checks.

i'm not down on an amsoil dealer making some money selling it. it just is not a convenient marketing technic for the consumer. i can stop at wally world about 2 miles from my house and get my mobil1 in five qt. jugs for $27.50, 15,000 mile oci garrantee. shell 15w-40 rotella in a 4 qt. jug for $11.00, no waiting no shipping. it's alot about convenience and being cost effective. the customer has to come first if a business is going to be a total success and grow. i have the amsoil facts. we have a dealer on the wing sight named tim vispond. he is a retired shell oil engineer. i have stood by him many times when folks have drilled him into the ground. he has alot of great info, but a buyer has to do what he thinks is right.

[a1bummer]

Correct me if I'm wrong here at all. It seems to me that the idea of changing oil every 3000 miles has been around for many years. But over the many years, the quality of motor oil and filters has become much better. So why is it that we still stick with the old 3000 mile intervals? I see adds boasting change interval of 5000 - 15000.

 

I use a full synthetic with the best filter I can get and change oil every 10000 miles and have had no internal problems at all on any of my vehicles.

 

I've seen shops put in semi or full synthetics during changes and still tell the customer to come back in 3000 miles. I've had to stop myself on several occasions from calling them out in front of the customers.

[Kross Kountry]

It is true that new oils will last much longer than the old ones. But dont forget one of the primary jobs of the oil. Everyone knows it has to lubricate, but it also has the jobs of transfering heat and delivering dirt and metel particals to the filter. Sure your synthetic oil is still good after 10,000 miles but how dirty is your filter. Those particals that are too small to be captured in the filter are still circulating and building up the your oil. That is why is turns dark. Once the filter media is full, the oil no longer passes thru the media. It's pushed thru a bypass valve that is built into the filter. When you change your oil don't think of it as throwing away good oil, but rather a good house cleaning for your engine. I do agree we probably change oil way too often, but I would rather error on the side of caution. It has never hurt an engine to change the oil just a little bit early.

 

Moral of this post: Don't skimp on the filter.

 

As for dealers, it's in there best interest to sell you another oil change.

[flb_78]

Correct me if I'm wrong here at all. It seems to me that the idea of changing oil every 3000 miles has been around for many years. But over the many years, the quality of motor oil and filters has become much better. So why is it that we still stick with the old 3000 mile intervals? I see adds boasting change interval of 5000 - 15000.

 

I use a full synthetic with the best filter I can get and change oil every 10000 miles and have had no internal problems at all on any of my vehicles.

 

I've seen shops put in semi or full synthetics during changes and still tell the customer to come back in 3000 miles. I've had to stop myself on several occasions from calling them out in front of the customers.

 

All owner's manuals for cars list their recommended oil change interval. Most are 5,000 -10,000 miles with regular oil. If a customer is too lazy to read their manual and choose to be ignorant about proper maintenance of their vehicle, let the quickie lubes and dealers make some extra coin.

 

I run Rotella T 15W40 and a Purolator PureOne PL14610 filter and change it around 3000 miles, that's when my transmission tells me to change it by the way it shifts.

[flb_78]

we have a dealer on the wing sight named tim vispond.

 

He's on the Two Wheeled Texans site as well hawking his wares. Damn near everyone of his posts is about how great Amsoil is and he proves it by showing all these tests, that are funded by Amsoil.

 

Unless one planned on keeping the bike for 200,000 miles, one could probably get away with never changing the oil and only changing the filter and adding top off oil for the entire time the bike is owned and suffer no noticeable ill effects.

[a1bummer]

It is true that new oils will last much longer than the old ones. But dont forget one of the primary jobs of the oil. Everyone knows it has to lubricate, but it also has the jobs of transfering heat and delivering dirt and metel particals to the filter. Sure your synthetic oil is still good after 10,000 miles but how dirty is your filter. Those particals that are too small to be captured in the filter are still circulating and building up the your oil. That is why is turns dark. Once the filter media is full, the oil no longer passes thru the media. It's pushed thru a bypass valve that is built into the filter. When you change your oil don't think of it as throwing away good oil, but rather a good house cleaning for your engine. I do agree we probably change oil way too often, but I would rather error on the side of caution. It has never hurt an engine to change the oil just a little bit early.

 

Moral of this post: Don't skimp on the filter.

 

As for dealers, it's in there best interest to sell you another oil change.

 

Yes, after more than 30 years toying around with engines and such, I totally agree with all that. Which is why I, "Don't skimp on the filter", either. Years ago I used to see a lot of the farmers logging tons of miles on their vehicles. They were taking a lesson from the tractor manufactures and adding the remotely located, old style filters that had the filter that looked like a roll of toilet paper, in conjunction to the factory filters. Even without the oils we have today, they were still able to prolong engine life by reducing the wear causes by contaminated oil back then with these kind of methods.

 

I remember when 100,000 miles was a LOT on a vehicle. Now 200,000 is just getting broken in.

[a1bummer]

All owner's manuals for cars list their recommended oil change interval. Most are 5,000 -10,000 miles with regular oil. If a customer is too lazy to read their manual and choose to be ignorant about proper maintenance of their vehicle, let the quickie lubes and dealers make some extra coin.

 

I guess I haven't looked at any bodies manuals lately to see what they suggest. None of my vehicles have the manual still with them. Seeing as how my newest vehicle is the 84 VR. My other is a 78 F100. Which I put in MEFI, an overdrive tranny, cruise, tilt, power windows, etc. a few years back. The poor thing doesn't see the road much with the VR around. I even skip the old Ford and take the scoot & trailer to the lumber yard when needed. It gets me some strange looks sometimes, but it works for me.

 

I'm gonna take a look in the Old Ladies manual to see what it states now out of curiosity. That's a 99 Bonneville with about 185,000 that still runs like a champ and has never needed any major repairs. I'm a Ford nut, but I do love these GM cars.

[Snarley Bill]

Yes, after more than 30 years toying around with engines and such, I totally agree with all that. Which is why I, "Don't skimp on the filter", either. Years ago I used to see a lot of the farmers logging tons of miles on their vehicles. They were taking a lesson from the tractor manufactures and adding the remotely located, old style filters that had the filter that looked like a roll of toilet paper, in conjunction to the factory filters. Even without the oils we have today, they were still able to prolong engine life by reducing the wear causes by contaminated oil back then with these kind of methods.

 

I remember when 100,000 miles was a LOT on a vehicle. Now 200,000 is just getting broken in.

hey bummer. logic tells me if toilet paper is good for cleaning the derrier. it has to be good for the motor. :rotf:

[a1bummer]

hey bummer. logic tells me if toilet paper is good for cleaning the derrier. it has to be good for the motor. :rotf:

 

:doh:LOL!

[Snarley Bill]

I guess I haven't looked at any bodies manuals lately to see what they suggest. None of my vehicles have the manual still with them. Seeing as how my newest vehicle is the 84 VR. My other is a 78 F100. Which I put in MEFI, an overdrive tranny, cruise, tilt, power windows, etc. a few years back. The poor thing doesn't see the road much with the VR around. I even skip the old Ford and take the scoot & trailer to the lumber yard when needed. It gets me some strange looks sometimes, but it works for me.

 

I'm gonna take a look in the Old Ladies manual to see what it states now out of curiosity. That's a 99 Bonneville with about 185,000 that still runs like a champ and has never needed any major repairs. I'm a Ford nut, but I do love these GM cars.

the facts are use a premium oil with the recommended oci's and the motor will out last us. i just have to go that extra step, and do what makes me feel good. thats what this oil thing is all about, peace of mind. :cool10: