skydoc_17 Posted June 22, 2009 Share #1 Posted June 22, 2009 I have been thinking about changing the final drive on my 87'VR since I have owned it. The first VR I had an 86' had the VMAX rear in it and I loved that bike. The thing I didn't like about my 87'VR is the gearing seemed "tall", when I was in the "sweet spot" of the engine I was flying down the highway at 85 plus! I began my search for a new final drive in November of 2008. Here is where I give cudo's to Squeeze, that young man has forgotten more about Ventures, VMAXs and FJR1300s then I will EVER know. I looked at about a dozen low mileage VMAX final drives and I just didn't like the Idea of the shock mount stud sticking out the side of the pumpkin. Thats when Squeeze told me about the FJR1300 final drive. He said "the FJR final drive has the same gearing as the VMAX and it is a mono-shock rear just like my 87'VR, the best of both worlds! Well, needless to say there aren't to many people parting out their late model FJR1300's and when they do, they want a pretty penny for the final drive. Being laid off has given me a lot of time to work on my bike but very little extra money. I have been selling off some items on Ebay and putting together the many "Kits" you have seen in the Classifieds. Well, last week the scrimping and saving finally paid off, I found a FJR1300 final drive in pristine condition, with only 3500 miles on it. I wish I could say that the rest of the bike was in as great of condition as the final drive but it looked like the owner of this beautiful machine drove into a brick wall at 100MPH! Anyway, I got the final drive and have attached pics below of the disassembly and reassembly of the entire of my 87'VR. I used the Honda Moly 60 Paste on all of the splines and the Belray 80/90 for the gear oil. Smooth, quiet, and this final drive took my old 87'VR to a whole new level of performance. Take a moment and have a look at the pics, if you have any questions, I will be more than happy to answer them. And once more, THANKS AGAIN SQEEZE, You Da' MAN! Earl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yammer Dan Posted June 22, 2009 Share #2 Posted June 22, 2009 That Squeeze is one Smart and a great Guy!! Does this make your scoot a little faster?? Which driveshaft did you use? The FJR or the Venture?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted June 22, 2009 Share #3 Posted June 22, 2009 That's really interesting. Now we need to get some feedback on performance. I'm planing on putting a V-Max in the '91, and long as they're the same ratio??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted June 22, 2009 Share #4 Posted June 22, 2009 (edited) That's really interesting. Now we need to get some feedback on performance. I'm planing on putting a V-Max in the '91, and long as they're the same ratio??? As long as they're the same ratio as what? It will be about 10% lower than the rear end in your Venture. Are you saying the same ratio as the FJR1300? RandyA Edited June 22, 2009 by Venturous Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted June 22, 2009 Share #5 Posted June 22, 2009 As long as the're the same ratio as what? It will be about 10% lower than the rear end in your Venture. Are you saying the same ratio as the FJR1300? RandyA No.... what I'm saying is that the FJR and the V-Max, like Squeeze mentioned, are the same ratio. I thought that was what the thread was sorta about V-Max final vs. FJR1300 final?? Maybe being up all night is taking it's toll........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yammer Dan Posted June 22, 2009 Share #6 Posted June 22, 2009 No.... what I'm saying is that the FJR and the V-Max, like Squeeze mentioned, are the same ratio. I thought that was what the thread was sorta about V-Max final vs. FJR1300 final?? Maybe being up all night is taking it's toll........ Couldn't be I slept a whole 2hrs last night!! FJR and V-Max are the same ratio acording to our expert. I wanted to know if you had use the Venture Shaft or if they were the same. Then you could use the shaft that had been mated to the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydoc_17 Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted June 22, 2009 The VMAX and FJR1300 final drives have the same gear ratio. After the install, my RPM's went up 550 RPM's at the same speed, (example: old rear 55 MPH= 2500 RPMs, new rear 55MPH= 3050 RPMs.) Results, Hole Shot is breath taking! (almost scary) as far as top end goes this 76,000 mile motor PULLS STRONG until the speedo is BARRIED!!! Before, the engine would go flat at around 105 MPH, on a long strait it would "creep" up but not pull strong. I don't know what this is going to do to my gas mileage but for all the extra power I got......"I'll suffer"! Now, about the drive shafts, the FJR1300 swing arm is 50MM longer, (2.050 ins.) so I had to use the VR drive shaft, fortunately for me the VR drive shaft was in excellent condition. I "Prussian Blued" the old drive shaft and the mating gear on the FJR final drive and the wear pattern was "Spot ON!" Overall I am very happy with this upgrade, The only issue I forsee is the gas mileage one, and like I said..."I'll suffer" with that one! Earl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timgray Posted June 23, 2009 Share #8 Posted June 23, 2009 Now that is INTERESTING... The FJR guys might want to know hat our old cruiser pumpkin will fit theirs to make the rpm's drop at highway speeds and give them a ol' caddilac cruise ride I'll have to post that over to the FJR forums. Maybe when I get mine I'll swap the two so I'll have a fjr good for long rides and less scary. and a Venture that is scary as hell :-) it's fun to teach the kiddies on those tiny 750cc sportbikes a lesson by the old guy on the geezer glide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegscraper Posted June 23, 2009 Share #9 Posted June 23, 2009 Nice find. But ya know, for those who can't turn up an FJR rear gear and can only find a VMX unit, that shock bolt comes out of the housing. Then you could put a plug in the hole since you were painting it anyway. Or pound a ball bearing into it. Or leave it open. I left mine open because it's never seen anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydoc_17 Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share #10 Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) Hey Lynn, As I have said before, YOU are my role model because of all the mods you have done to your bike. I have nothing against the VMAX final drive, as a matter of fact my 86'VR had the VMAX final drive in it and worked just dandy. It just so happened that all of the biker planets were in alignment for that short period of time when I had my money and the FJR rider had crashed his bike. I mean, what are the chances of finding a bike with 3500 miles on it and the guy not wanting an "arm and a leg" for the final drive. I lucked out big time, and have been reaping the rewards for the last few days! I am really looking forward to the Skid-In! Earl Edited June 23, 2009 by skydoc_17 CRAYON BROKE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitty161 Posted June 23, 2009 Share #11 Posted June 23, 2009 I'm sorry if I am repeating what has already been answered but after reading the first post my body is tingling and I have one hell of a devilish grin. This will fit an 83...yes? So.....better hole shot.....little more rpms.....and will not hurt the top end? A buddy has an FJR and spends time at 150 on long, straight, deserted roads in the desert. Would I now be able to spend time with him.....hmmmmm? My bike runs strong. Great pull and acceleration to 120 and buried. Think I could see a improvement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydoc_17 Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share #12 Posted June 23, 2009 Hey Smitty, Depending on when your 83'VR was manufactured, you could ALREADY have the same gear ratio as the VMAX! The Yamaha in-line 4 Cylinder FJR1300 is a performance BEAST compared to the VR. They wind up much quicker, red line higher and the trannys are geared for getty-up, period! Plus they are lighter. With all that being said, The only way to know for sure if you have a VMAX final drive is to be able to view the drive shaft and the final drive splines, count the revolutions, and then you would know for sure. (basically, remove the final drive) 9.9 revs of the drive shaft to 3 revs of the final drive splines equal a stock VR final drive. 11 revs of the drive shaft to 3 revs on the final drive splines equal a VMAX/FJR1300 final drive. Let us know what you find out! Earl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaking Posted June 23, 2009 Share #13 Posted June 23, 2009 What paint did you use on the drive? I have a VStar project I'm thinking of repainting the final drive but unsure what type of paint to use.. Sounds like a fun project you got into there.. nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timgray Posted June 23, 2009 Share #14 Posted June 23, 2009 Hey Smitty, Depending on when your 83'VR was manufactured, you could ALREADY have the same gear ratio as the VMAX! Earl I typically run at 4200 rpm at 70-75 mph is that a good indication that I may have a vmax ratio on my 83? I just though that all 1st gens could pull the front tire off the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitty161 Posted June 23, 2009 Share #15 Posted June 23, 2009 Thanks for the info Skydoc. Be about a week before I can tear into it. When I do I will let you all know what I find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhncue Posted June 24, 2009 Share #16 Posted June 24, 2009 I typically run at 4200 rpm at 70-75 mph is that a good indication that I may have a vmax ratio on my 83? I just though that all 1st gens could pull the front tire off the ground. My 83's rpms are slightly over 3000 at 55 mph. I weigh 290 but if I am in a hurry the front end lifts going from first to second gear. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted June 24, 2009 Share #17 Posted June 24, 2009 Hey Smitty, Depending on when your 83'VR was manufactured, you could ALREADY have the same gear ratio as the VMAX! Earl This is something new. Need to know more Earl... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted June 24, 2009 Share #18 Posted June 24, 2009 This is something new. Need to know more Earl... Yep, that is new to me too. Never heard that one before. RandyA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitty161 Posted June 24, 2009 Share #19 Posted June 24, 2009 I haven't pulled the rear tire yet but at 55 mph I am at 4050 rpm.....just a little tidbit before I pull the tire. It will be next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydoc_17 Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share #20 Posted June 24, 2009 Sorry I didn't answer the many questions posted, I've been out riding! I'll see if I can catch up. This is for seaking, The paint I used on the FJR final drive is a Rustoleum "Hammered" copper. I have been using it on the R1 calipers, the screens in the lower cowel and the screens in the radiator side covers. It sorta' compliments the Elegant Brown which is the color of my 87'VR. They make an entire line of Hammered colors, I think it looks similar to textured powder coating. This is an answer to those that think they might have the VMAX final drive in their 83'VR. Today, I was on the freeway and at 70MPH I was at 4200 RPM's, If I remember correctly, with the VR final drive I would be at 3650 RPM's at 70 MPH. Now, this is for all who are wondering about the 83'VR final drives. As Yamaha entered the race to compete against the goldwing, It produced the 1983 VR and they used higher lift cams and the "VMAX" final drive. The 83'VR final drive has smaller bearings for the ring and pinion gears and holds less gear oil than the later model VR final drive. Somewhere along the way they realized they had created a "Monster" and due to some final drive failures decided to tone down the gear ratio and redesign the final drive pumpkin with bigger bearings and larger fluid capacity.They thought they had the 83'VR "reined in" by using the smaller bore Carbs. but as it turned out that 1200 motor was getting plenty of fuel! In 1985 when the VMAX was introduced, Yamaha already knew about the benefits of the VMAX gear ratio from the 83'VR and put that gear ratio in the redesigned final drive pumpkin. I have actually seen a few VMAXs with the smaller 83'VR final drive in them from the factory. They usually didn't last long. By the time the 1984 production run started, all of the 84' and up VR's had the "taller" gear set that we all have till the last year in 1993. So if you are one of the lucky ones that has an early production 83'VR, your bike was the "testbed" for the VMAX! How cool is that!?!? I hope this clears things up for everyone. Earl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitty161 Posted June 24, 2009 Share #21 Posted June 24, 2009 That is cool. Damn I love this bike. Thanks for the explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yammer Dan Posted June 24, 2009 Share #22 Posted June 24, 2009 Any idea what number they stopped at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyHorse Posted June 24, 2009 Share #23 Posted June 24, 2009 Sorry I didn't answer the many questions posted, I've been out riding! I'll see if I can catch up. This is for seaking, The paint I used on the FJR final drive is a Rustoleum "Hammered" copper. I have been using it on the R1 calipers, the screens in the lower cowel and the screens in the radiator side covers. It sorta' compliments the Elegant Brown which is the color of my 87'VR. They make an entire line of Hammered colors, I think it looks similar to textured powder coating. This is an answer to those that think they might have the VMAX final drive in their 83'VR. Today, I was on the freeway and at 70MPH I was at 4200 RPM's, If I remember correctly, with the VR final drive I would be at 3650 RPM's at 70 MPH. Now, this is for all who are wondering about the 83'VR final drives. As Yamaha entered the race to compete against the goldwing, It produced the 1983 VR and they used higher lift cams and the "VMAX" final drive. The 83'VR final drive has smaller bearings for the ring and pinion gears and holds less gear oil than the later model VR final drive. Somewhere along the way they realized they had created a "Monster" and due to some final drive failures decided to tone down the gear ratio and redesign the final drive pumpkin with bigger bearings and larger fluid capacity.They thought they had the 83'VR "reined in" by using the smaller bore Carbs. but as it turned out that 1200 motor was getting plenty of fuel! In 1985 when the VMAX was introduced, Yamaha already knew about the benefits of the VMAX gear ratio from the 83'VR and put that gear ratio in the redesigned final drive pumpkin. I have actually seen a few VMAXs with the smaller 83'VR final drive in them from the factory. They usually didn't last long. By the time the 1984 production run started, all of the 84' and up VR's had the "taller" gear set that we all have till the last year in 1993. So if you are one of the lucky ones that has an early production 83'VR, your bike was the "testbed" for the VMAX! How cool is that!?!? I hope this clears things up for everyone. Earl How accurate is your speedo mine is way off about 10 mph at 70 mph. So its reading 70 I'm doing 60 in reality. I'm about 4200 rpm at 70 GPS speed regular VR drive. This drive would explain 83's awesome test results. 4200 rpm seems to be the cutoff point where mileage really starts to suffer anything higher and I'm back in the 30's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydoc_17 Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share #24 Posted June 24, 2009 Hey Dan, At this time, I don't know the answer. This all started for me when I tried to buy parts for an 83'VR that was in my shop. My local dealer gave me parts and as I went thru the final drive mostly replacing seals, Something didn't look right. The ring and pinion gear had a different amount of gear teeth. I called my dealer, they called Yamaha, and I got the explanation above. I started asking questions about the different final drive in the 83's and the answer I got was "our records for American production motorcycles of this model are incomplete." The Yamaha Rep I deal with said they purchased that first group of final drives, Installed them in the 83's until they ran out, and when they purchased the next group of final drives, it was the redesigned final drive that is in everyone's bike. Jimbob, I don't have a GPS, (wish I did) and my speedo is off around 7 MPH at 70. I use this to stay out of trouble on the freeway, I usually run 5 over the posted speed and this has worked pretty good for me. Randy, If you look at the part numbers for the 83'VR and the 85'VMAX both of these engines run the same intake and exhaust cams! The only difference in the top ends is the small bore Carbs. which didn't hurt the 83'VR at all in my opinion! As I find out more, I fill in the gaps. I think this is really cool to find out all these little tidbits about these fine machines! Earl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted June 24, 2009 Share #25 Posted June 24, 2009 Maybe that's the reason my '83#3089 hauls ass. Checked the speedo against my GPS, and it's dead nutz on, at 4200rpm I'm running... if I remember correctly... +/- 75mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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