Saddle_Bag Posted June 26, 2007 Share #1 Posted June 26, 2007 I guess I need an electrical wizard here. Horns we barely working. I tried adjusting the screw on the back, nuttin worked. I purchased two new units, described by the manufacturer as loud and annoying, they even came with ear plugs. Cleaned up all the connections , and put them on. They work, not annoying and not loud. The headlight does dim when you push the button. I tried spraying the horn button with cleaner(contact ) , still the same. Help................... joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calperin Posted June 26, 2007 Share #2 Posted June 26, 2007 One stupid question: (I mean stupid due to I did this before) Did you take of the metal holder piece that let the horn vibrate freely? Is a flat piece (may be with two or three layers of thin metal) that hold the horn to the bike structure. If you did that, I have a solution: PUT IT BACK, AND THAT IS IT.... Is not an electrical problem, the horns need vibration capability to work. I put the headlights & horn brackets that squidly makes, and put the horns agains them (No holders of course) and no sound almost,. Then I bought two FIAM horns (Mercedes Benz originals) and it comes with thouse flat holder, that of course I take off, and again nothing. Then I decide to test the horn, so I release completely from the bracket and it BLOWS!!!! Final step, I return the FIAM horns to the auto-store, found the original brackest, put it back between the bracket and the horns, and now magically I have two strong original horns working. :cool10: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Posted June 26, 2007 Share #3 Posted June 26, 2007 On the electrical side, test voltage across the horn connectors when blowing them. Then test voltage across battery terminals when blowing horn. In theory, they should be the same. Since all circuits have voltage drop, in reality if the bike is idling, you will have about 13 volts or so at the battery. At the horns, if you have, say, 11.5 or 12 that is probably sufficient. But if you have 10 like I did on my Virago, they won't work right. Another thing you can try; this is what led me to the problem on the Virago: connect a horn to a battery charger or another healthy battery with jumper cables. Or connect to the Venture's battery with jumper cables. (Pull the bike's connectors off the horn first.) If the horn blows normally, then it is OK and is not getting enough power from the bike. Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbon_One Posted June 26, 2007 Share #4 Posted June 26, 2007 Another electrical possibility here. You may not get full volume from the horn if using the bikes wiring. Use a 30amp relay to feed power dirctly from the battery to the horn (s). Then use the horns wiring to operate the relay. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddle_Bag Posted June 26, 2007 Author Share #5 Posted June 26, 2007 Calperin, I have the brackets the I bought from Squid. Can I put the thin metal pieces under the horn and still use them on the squid bracket???Why is the bracket not allowing the horns to work??? joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted June 26, 2007 Share #6 Posted June 26, 2007 Calperin, I have the brackets the I bought from Squid. Can I put the thin metal pieces under the horn and still use them on the squid bracket???Why is the bracket not allowing the horns to work??? joe I have OEM horns mounted with a Squidley bracket on my '83, and they work just fine... However....the original horns aren't worth a 'hoot' above 40mph anyway.. Sounds like you may have a resistance problem on the hot (+) side of the power supply. Corrosion, dirty connection, etc. If they work better after putting the old arm back on I bet it's a bad ground problem..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calperin Posted June 27, 2007 Share #7 Posted June 27, 2007 I understand what Condor says, but on my case with the horns attached directly to the bracket didn't worked with 2 different kinds of horns (Original & FIAM). Yes, put the flat piece attached to the back bolt of the horn, and the other part to the bracket (This is the way that I did). To be sure if the problem is the wiring or the bracket, simply release the horn and test it. You will see if return to work or keeps not working. If you have a voltmeter (tester), check the voltage on the horn when you push the button. Should be more than 11 volts (Normally between 12 to 14.4V). If there is no voltage, or it is low, Carbon One has right. Connect the button to a standar relay, and bring a cable from the battery to the relay, and from the relay direct to both horns. If nothing works, PepBoys has FIAM horns for 19.00$ or stebel kind for 50.00$ Stebel Italy has a model air propelled but like the FIAM style. I couldnt find it in US. Let me know if this help you. Regards, :stirthepot: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calperin Posted June 27, 2007 Share #8 Posted June 27, 2007 I have OEM horns mounted with a Squidley bracket on my '83, and they work just fine... However....the original horns aren't worth a 'hoot' above 40mph anyway.. Sounds like you may have a resistance problem on the hot (+) side of the power supply. Corrosion, dirty connection, etc. If they work better after putting the old arm back on I bet it's a bad ground problem..... Condor, remember that the original circuit is floating from the physical ground. That is why there is two cables, and none of them is attached to the chasis. On my case, that discarded the bad ground. with the horn physically free all the horns blowed really high. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted June 27, 2007 Share #9 Posted June 27, 2007 Condor, remember that the original circuit is floating from the physical ground. That is why there is two cables, and none of them is attached to the chasis. On my case, that discarded the bad ground. with the horn physically free all the horns blowed really high. Regards, The reason for my response was that when you press the horn button the lights dim. Somethings pulling a lot of amps, or you don't have a lot of amps to spare...????? Perhaps you have an internal dead short in the horn body that needs a ground to complete the circuit. Therefore they work when loose and don't when attached.....because you've grounded the casing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddle_Bag Posted June 27, 2007 Author Share #10 Posted June 27, 2007 Spending the day in my 96 degree garage with all this stuff to check. Thanks to all, I'll keep you advised. joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Posted June 27, 2007 Share #11 Posted June 27, 2007 Whew, got any ventilation in there? Fans? Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddle_Bag Posted June 27, 2007 Author Share #12 Posted June 27, 2007 I used two fans, but I like the heat. The hotter I get the quicker the good words fly out. The words that get bleeped on those reality shows on TV. What I did was put the thin pieces of metal that originally held the horns on the outside of the light/horn brackets. I ran an additional ground from the back of the horn to the frame. The horns worked better but now they occilate. I sprayed connector cleaner into the horn button and stange things started happening. Sometimes the horns would work, other times the button would stick. How would you use a meter to check the voltage?. The horn lead to ground or thru the two horn leads??? I do think thatI have a bad switch or very dirty. joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calperin Posted June 27, 2007 Share #13 Posted June 27, 2007 IF you have a multimeter, put it on VDC. Be sure that red test cable is on the VOA connector and the black test cable is on the COMMON or GROUND. I assume that you have a DIGITAL VoltMeter. If not you need to be carefull with the polarity, since if you reverse it you can see the nail going below cero, turning itself destroying the instrument. Put the test cables (Red & Black) on each one of the connectors of the horn (Doesn't matter wich horn). And then press the horn button. You should be able to see the result on the LCD display, or on the scale according the VDC you choosed. On the Digital ones should stay VDC above 20 VDC, on the analog ones, anything with more than 20 V is ok, but don't go to high or you will not be able to see the difference between 10 volts or 15 volts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Posted June 27, 2007 Share #14 Posted June 27, 2007 Yeah, what he said! If you use an analog meter, put the red lead on the hot side of the horn and the black on the neg side of the horn. Of course, you may not be able to tell the difference, so just try it briefly - the meter should take backward connection for a moment - and if it's backward then swap them. Also, try to connect the horn directly to the battery with some loose wires and see how they work. Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddle_Bag Posted June 28, 2007 Author Share #15 Posted June 28, 2007 If there is a plus and minus for the horn connections, does it matter how the horn is hooked up (plus to plus) or are the horns like a light bulb ( it will work any way you hook it up)??? joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Posted June 28, 2007 Share #16 Posted June 28, 2007 Pretty sure it doesn't matter. Try it briefly and see if there's any diff in the sound. Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddle_Bag Posted June 29, 2007 Author Share #17 Posted June 29, 2007 Alright, Problem........... I put a digital volt meter on it. I took the ground back to the battery. After hooking it up to the horn and the negative on the battery and then pushed the horn button. The voltage , 9.5 volts. Now what???joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddle_Bag Posted June 29, 2007 Author Share #18 Posted June 29, 2007 I guess,I needed to add that the engine was not running, but the battery tender was still hooked up. I did check the voltage across the battery, this was 12.8 volts. joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddle_Bag Posted June 29, 2007 Author Share #19 Posted June 29, 2007 I reread some of the previous post . So. I ran the leads to the horn connections and managed to push the horn button and got a consistant 5.9 volts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeS Posted June 29, 2007 Share #20 Posted June 29, 2007 Go to auto parts store, get a 12 V Accessory Relay. Use the original wireing to Pull the Relay, Rewire the Horn with #16 wire from 12V source, with an In-Line fuse, to the new relay, and from relay to Horn, and add a Ground wire from Horm barcket to a good ground. !!! You might want to switch to Volvo Horns !! Anything is better then the Beep Beep Stock horns !!! the Original wireing to the Horns is too small a diameter wire, And all the current for sound the Horns runs thru the Switch, Not good. The New relay should have a schematic showing how to hook it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Posted July 2, 2007 Share #21 Posted July 2, 2007 Well, you found the problem. Sounds like you're losing 3 volts on the hot side and an appalling 4 volts on the ground side! If this is like my Virago, it is ground-switching, which explains the high loss on the ground side. Do what George said - I did on the Virago and it made all the difference as they were getting 9.5 volts or so. Viragos are blessed with honk-honk horns as opposed to beep-beep, and they sound pretty good to me. Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddle_Bag Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share #22 Posted July 2, 2007 I followed what he said, but my finger don't do electrical that good. Do I go into the horn button, or open the the covered cable leading to the button. I assume the power goes in and then I guess it comes out and goes to the horns?? Does the bike have a relay already that I can replace? I , be the dunce in this area think there is no relay now??? Step by step instructions would help, I always think I going to fry something when I get into electrical stuff. joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Posted July 2, 2007 Share #23 Posted July 2, 2007 No relay now - all current goes through horn button, ignition switch, and a myriad of connectors. Relay will have 4 connectors, maybe a couple more that you don't need. Two are for the activating coil. No need to go into the horn button; rather, take the two wires running to one of the horns and run them instead to the relay coil connectors, it does not matter which is which. Now the horn button will trip the relay instead of actually powering the horns (or attempting to!). That's the switching side. Now for the power side, come right off the battery and install in inline fuse or circuit breaker. Run that wire to one of the switched terminals on the relay. Run a wire from the other switched terminal to one side of each horn. Connect the other side of each horn to ground. That's it! Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest venture 777 Posted July 11, 2007 Share #24 Posted July 11, 2007 Condor, remember that the original circuit is floating from the physical ground. That is why there is two cables, and none of them is attached to the chasis. On my case, that discarded the bad ground. with the horn physically free all the horns blowed really high. Regards, I have a 93 VR and Rivco mkes a good air horn 83-93 venturers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest venture 777 Posted July 11, 2007 Share #25 Posted July 11, 2007 I followed what he said, but my finger don't do electrical that good. Do I go into the horn button, or open the the covered cable leading to the button. I assume the power goes in and then I guess it comes out and goes to the horns?? Does the bike have a relay already that I can replace? I , be the dunce in this area think there is no relay now??? Step by step instructions would help, I always think I going to fry something when I get into electrical stuff. joe I had the same problem the fix is the electrical contacts in the switch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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