Sexagenarian

I know it has been a long time since this topic resurfaced, but I needed to find the part number for the drain plugs. I did a search for cylinder drain plugs and this thread came up. Saved me gobs of time trying to find that little plug in all the parts diagrams. This thread alone was worth the renewal fee for this site. Members on this site have and always will --- rock !!! --Wayne

I have a 97 RSTD so I could be wrong but with the horn attached to those wires you should read voltage on both of them. Typically the horn switch provides a path to ground completing the circuit for the horn. By pulling off the horn, the pink wire should now have a zero potential because its path to the brown wire would have been through the horn. To verify the short exists, did you read the voltage on the two wires with the horn still connected, or after it was disconnected from the circuit. I also purchased the bracket from Carbon and it worked perfectly on my RSTD. -Wayne

Thinking about purchasing one of these two for the wife and I. She is getting fed up with me changing my mind on our routes and not conveying my intentions until the last minute. I guess she has a point as I really do tend to change my mind on our scenic trips. We figure by obtaining one of these two systems now, that we would save argumentative time later

pm sent...

I have had my carbs apart so many times I could write up a new procedure on a quicker way to separate them and get them back together without messing with the synch screws. But then, there would be no justification to purchase a brand new Morgan carbtune!!

was it the battery connections? or did you have to start troubleshooting the starter relay, etc.? Curious minds want to know.

The ignition switch and its wiring is up front on the left side of the frame. There is no wiring directly under the gas tank of my '97 RSTD. There is the top of the air filter assembly directly under that gas tank. Not only do you have to remove the gas tank, but to have access to the wiring and for your plug-n-play, the air filter assembly would need to come off also. I am by no means a mechanical expert on this bike and have lots to learn, but the easiest way I have found to remove this housing is to loosen the four air cleaner joint clamps on the underside of the air intake assembly in order to pop it off the carbs. Then disconnect the breather hose from the fitting on the rear underside of the housing. Now disconnect the hose from the fitting on the middle underside of the housing. Then it is still a bugger to remove as a whole unit because of the plastic extension on the front of the air cleaner housing cover. And we need to get the whole unit out of there to access the wiring below. So now, I found after the 4th time of having to remove this, that it is quicker to remove the frame neck covers, remove the thermostat housing bracket so as to disengage this bracket from the front extension of the air cleaner. You may still have to remove the radiator cap bolts and finagle the radiator cap assembly so you can maneuver the air cleaner assembly out of its position. Now you will finally have better access to the ignition connectors and its wiring. After performing the necessary connections for the bypass, you can now start to put everything back together. I just can't see placing a relay in such a hard area of access. And if you ever need to change out the relay, you can go through the procedure of taking your tank and air cleaner assembly off again unless you were to run the relay all the way back under your seat. I don't think your plug-n-play would have long enough cabling for that. Consider yourself fortunate that your wiring is so easily accessible just under the gas tank. So people, if you have a later model RSTD with the wiring being accessible directly under the tank, then seriously consider member "Carbon One's" method or member "djh3's" method. But if you have a '96 or '97 RSTD (which is the model this original post was made for) then you may want to seriously consider the method described in the very first post of this thread. You can check your Clymer manual or service manual for the model year in question if you have any doubts. If you see that Brown/Blue wire under the fuse block feeding four fuses, then my method may work for you. For anyone wanting to know how long my procedure approximately takes... I suspect that someone could easily rewire a relay socket with the correct gauge wire, correct length of wiring, in-line fuse, and the connectors required to do this job in about 10-15 minutes with no soldering required. If you wanted to solder your crimp connections before placing the heat shrink tubing on then go for it. I would recommend the adhesive lined heat shrink tubing to help combat any possibility of future corrosion in that connection. Please keep in mind, that some sockets from amazon.com and ebay can come pre-wired with the wrong gauge wire for this project. The higher number the gauge of the wire, the smaller in diameter and the less amperage it can handle. If you use too small of a wire diameter for the amperage applied to it, you will risk starting your wire's insulation on fire. This is why fuses are placed into circuits. To protect wiring. Please consult the wiring chart in the original post. Let's add another 5 - 10 minutes to open the side cover, route and connect your wiring with the posi-locks or posi-twists and button it all back up again. So we are talking about 30 minutes total if you take your time and dress it down pretty. YMMV. Now, if ever there was a relay failure then about 5 minutes to open the side cover, put the Brown/Blue wire back together with itself with a posi-lock or posi-twist, close the side cover, and start the engine. In my humble opinion, this sure beats taking off the gas tank and air cleaner assembly again. I really hadn't thought about this before, but send me a Message if you want me to come up with a price on providing you with a pre assembled wiring harness for this easily accessible area of your bike. If enough interest is generated, I would quote a price that includes shipping. Drive Safe!! -Wayne

Good set of instructions! It would have been nice if the '96-'97's had those type of connectors readily accessible also. Unfortunately they are not so that's why I performed the bypass in the manner I did. It is definitely great to see all the creativity by everyone on this site. Hopefully my next bike will not be as old as the '97. But then again, I am sure my bike is lamenting the age of its rider!! ride safe!! -Wayne

Happy to hear it works for you. I see lots of connectors in that area of your bike. Is that area easily accessible for that model/year? Sorry for asking but I am only familiar with the '97 RSTD and removing the tank is a real PITA on the '97. For me the worst is disconnecting the large speedometer cable connector. It mates together very tightly and is hard for my hands to separate it. But once that is accomplished then the rest of the removal is easy. I have had to take that tank off about 4 times already and I always dreaded disconnecting that large speedo connector. I did manage to spill gas on myself all four times. Also didn't want to have to take the tank off to show a prospective buyer where the wire modification/relay was hidden. That's why I chose under the seat and wired by the fuse panel. Two areas very easily accessible and two locations which should be shown to a prospective buyer. Plus it is an area so easily accessible if your relay ever fails and you need to put that Brown/Blue wire back together with itself again. And by utilizing the posi-locks, there is never any soldering required. Ride safe!! -Wayne

yup... everything is stock on this.

being a sophmorishly new rider, how much and how loud of any type of backfiring is normal or not normal? I have a little backfiring when abruptly decelerating and was just wondering if this is typical or not?

This procedure was performed on my 1997 Royal Star Tour Deluxe (model XVZ13LTC) after I had to replace the ignition switch on my Dodge Ram due to the blower motor pulling excessive current over time and burning out the switch. I figured if it can happen on a truck, it can sure happen on the RSTD. If you have any other 1997 model or even the 1996 RSTD, you will know if this procedure will possibly work for you after inspecting the bottom of your fuse block. Elsewhere on this forum is an excellent article by member ‘Carbon One’ on how to bypass your ignition switch on 2nd generation cruisers. It seems that the ignition switch is prone to failure due to the high amount of current passing through this switch to feed the various electric circuits. Before continuing with my procedure below, I highly recommend familiarizing yourself with Carbon One’s procedure as he does an excellent job of familiarizing you with the process and intent. Carbon One’s article can be found here: http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=75398 I have only been riding now for a little over a year and the ’97 RSTD was purchased around June of 2013. With the wealth of information on this forum, I have saved hundreds of dollars in labor costs by performing the labor myself instead of contributing it to the local Yamaha mechanics. If you are not a member yet, I suggest you become one so as to keep this worthwhile library of information flowing. As a testament to the great advice on this forum, prior to my obtaining this motorcycle I had never worked on any type of vehicle before. My previous experience was always to take it to a local garage, pay the ransom when they were finished with it, and ride off into the sunset. After going through Carbon’s article above, I knew I wanted to perform this “surgery” on my ’97. But I also did not want to have to take the gas tank off in order for this to be accomplished. I wanted the relay and its associated wiring to be easily accessible so that it could be put back to its original condition for any possible future buyer of the bike. I also wanted to be able to easily show any future purchaser exactly the hows and whys this modification was performed and how easily reversible it is. It may be unjustified, by I felt taking the gas tank off in order to show the modification to any prospective buyer could be an inconvenience and possible deal-breaker of any future sale. A different access point to this ignition circuit was sought. I also did not want to have to add a lot of tool requirements if anything would come up during a ride where it would be necessary to put the wiring back to its original condition (think relay failure with no spare on board). First a decision on the relay location was required. For easy access what could be nicer than to just remove the seat with the seat key? The relay and its wired socket will fit nicely between the frame and the battery holder on either the left or right side. I chose to tuck it in (upside down for easier wiring) on the right side but you may be happier to place yours on the left side. Now to find an access location to the circuit-in-question that is in close proximity to the relay location. My tool requirement was met by adding only a small 5mm hex head to the onboard tool pouch. Using this 5mm hex head allen wrench, remove the left side cover by removing the rightmost side cover bolt and its nylon washer located right there next to the seat key. Grasp the side cover and pull towards you to disengage the pins on the left side of that side cover where it mates with the inner cover rubber grommets. Place the side cover and the screw/washer safely aside. You should be looking at this: http://www.magicmomentsphotography.biz/0001BrewMisc/IgnitionBypass/JPEG/SidePanelRemoved.jpg Note that the image shows the inner cover also removed. You won’t need to do that. I had it removed because I was replacing the fuel filter which has nothing to do with this modification. You should now have access to your fuse block which is what we are after. There is a mounting bolt on each side of that fuse block that needs to be removed. Later, when we place the fuse block assembly back onto the frame, it does not need to be removed in order to reverse our modification. So the tool you use to remove the fuse block mounting hardware is not a tool that needs to be added to your tool pouch. Unless, of course, you want it to be. Once you have the fuse block separated from the frame, go ahead and open it up. I added the “Spares” label strip near the fuses with a Brady labelmaker. Otherwise, if your fuse box does not contain these exact fuses and labeling, then your ’97 did not go through the one recall I could find on a ’97 XVZ13LTJ or XVZ13LTC. You will find a link for the adobe .pdf file for this recall near the end of this posting. http://www.magicmomentsphotography.biz/0001BrewMisc/IgnitionBypass/JPEG/FuseBoxRecall.jpg Go ahead and close the lid. We only opened it to verify that your ’97 went through the recall. We are interested in the bottom of this fuse block. Go ahead and turn it over and you should be seeing this: http://www.magicmomentsphotography.biz/0001BrewMisc/IgnitionBypass/JPEG/FuseBottom.jpg Notice the tip of my Phillips screwdriver is pointing at the Brown/Blue wire. You can also see that this Brown/Blue wire is actually feeding a four circuit bus bar. See next image. http://www.magicmomentsphotography.biz/0001BrewMisc/IgnitionBypass/JPEG/FuseBottomBus.jpg Let's look at these 4 circuits in a little more detail.... http://www.magicmomentsphotography.biz/0001BrewMisc/IgnitionBypass/JPEG/FuseBottomBusLabels.jpg The Red/White 10 amp ignition fuse actually feeds one side of the coil on the starter relay, the ignitor circuit, and the engine stop switch. Do not confuse it with the actual ignition switch wiring which we will be modifying. The Brown 20 amp signal fuse goes to that puny stock horn you may have and also to the four carb heaters as well as the oil indicator light on the speedometer and the front /rear brake switches and brake light. The Red/Yellow 20 amp Headlight fuse routes to the headlights via the headlight dimmer switch, the speedometer lights so you can see it at night, left and right front turn signals, left and right rear turn signals, and your tail light. The Brown 10 amp fan fuse is solely for the radiator fan motor and its thermal switch. So there you have it. A total possibility of 60 amps on this four circuit bus bar being fed from the 30 amp main fuse. This of course tells us that not all 60 amps are called for at once or we would be blowing the main fuse all the time. Just how much is present on these circuits at any one time is unknown by me. Maybe someone out there knows? Our goal is to remove all of these four circuits from passing through our keyed ignition switch. In its place we will be passing only enough current to operate the coil on a 30 amp relay. This coil amperage is measured in milliamps and is less than one amp. So we will be alleviating all of the amperage of these four circuits running through your ignition switch, down to a value of less than one amp, which will be used to energize the coil for our relay. A true ignition switch saver!! Now for those of you that feel your ignition switch should have been engineered to handle these currents, I not only remind you of all the problems GM is having with their ignitions, but as mentioned previously, I had to replace the ignition switch on my dodge ram because the blower motor quit working. Why the blower motor current runs through the ignition switch is beyond me, but that switch only cost me $30 bucks at an Auto Zone plus my labor (cheap). The MOPAR part would have been closer to $150 at my cost (expensive). A new switch for your 1997 RSTD is not only hard to find, but costs nearly as much, if not more, than the MOPAR part for my truck. So I felt this whole issue is important enough to warrant reducing the amperage passing through my RSTD ignition switch to extend its life. Now comes the hardest part of this project. We need to expose about three to four inches of that Brown/Blue wire feeding that bus bar. My wiring harness was tape and it is old tape so it was rather easy to unravel it and thereby expose the necessary amount. We are going to cut this Brown/Blue wire. We want to leave a good two inches to work with on the fuse block side of the cut. And we want a good couple inches to work with on the wiring harness side of the cut. But before we cut this wire, we should determine what gauge wire we will be connecting to both the new ends we will be creating. This chart will help us with that determination. http://www.magicmomentsphotography.biz/0001BrewMisc/IgnitionBypass/JPEG/ampacity.jpg This is a DC (direct current or battery) voltage chart and not an AC (alternating current like your home wall outlets) voltage chart. When looking at the footages in the diagram, keep in mind that it is for BOTH sides of the circuit. In the chart it states that our maximum footage allowable for 18AWG wire is: 40 amps at 3 feet; 24 amps at 5 feet; 15 amps at 10 feet; 8 amps at 15 feet; or 7 amps at 25 feet. So for the 40 amp wiring we should only be 1.5 feet away from our source and another 1.5 feet to our ground for a total of three feet. For the 7 amp wiring we could be 12.5 feet away from our source and another 12.5 feet to our ground for a total of twenty-five feet. In our situation, the largest current which any of our four circuits are utilizing is 20 amps. But we have two 10 amp circuits and two 20 amp circuits on this bus. Since our main fuse is at 30 amps, I decided to use a 30 amp inline fuse wired from my battery to the relay pin 30. The other side of the relay (pin 87) will be attached to a red wire that meets up with the Brown/Blue wire going into the 4 circuit bus bar of the fuse block. I had just enough 14 AWG yellow wire on hand for the relay’s coil. I also had some red 10 AWG on hand for the relay circuit. Looking at the chart, my 14AWG will be quite a lot more than what is required for a 1 amp circuit. Also looking at the chart, my 10AWG wire will be good for 30 amps and 25 feet. This means I can be up to 12.5 feet away from my battery post as the current travels through the relay and connects up to the existing Brown/Blue wire. Wiring from the fuse block up to the relay under the seat will take less than a 3 foot length of 10AWG. The same for the 14AWG for operating the relay coil. Wiring from the battery to the relay itself is less than a foot for both the 14awg and the 10awg wires. This will insure all wiring will be extensively protected from overheating. Which in reality, is the sole purpose of a fuse. I want to call your attention to another product. My criteria for this modification was for it to be easily reversible. Solder connections while out by the side of a road somewhere did not qualify, in my opinion, as easily reversible. Having to install a bypass switch on a bike with limited real estate for mounting it, was also considered to be extreme. Crimp connectors have been known for coming loose in high vibration environments. I don’t know if a motorcycle qualifies as high vibration, but to be safe I wanted a wire connector that could put up with severe vibrations while maintaining a strong connection. My internet search revealed this product to me: www.Posi-Lock.com I figured if our military uses these, then they have been extensively field tested by them. This is good enough for me! I have almost a thousand miles on the bike since performing this modification and upon random inspections I have noted the posi-twists I utilized have not loosened one bit. I used the posi-twist product because I placed two different gauged wires together . The existing Brown/Blue wire going into the fuse block and the 10AWG wire coming from the relay went into one posi-twist. The yellow 14awg wire going to the relay coil and the Brown/Blue going into the wire harness went into the smaller posi-twist. If you ride through a lot of rain or snow and you will be using the same gauge of wire throughout, you may want to consider the posi-tite connector. I myself seldom ride in the rain. http://www.magicmomentsphotography.biz/0001BrewMisc/IgnitionBypass/JPEG/splices.jpg We are now ready to cut the Brown/Blue wire a couple inches from the fuse block. I used the posi-twist connectors so I removed about a half inch of insulation from both of the newly exposed ends of the Brown/Blue wire. I connected a Red 10AWG wire coming from the relay output to the Brown/Blue wire going to the fuse block. I connected a yellow 14AWG wire (labeled “wayne” in the image) from the Brown/Blue wire going into the wiring harness (which is actually coming from the ignition switch). The other end of this yellow wire went to one side of the relay’s activating coil (pin 85 or 86). The other pin of the coil I wired to the negative battery terminal. Just above the “w” in “wayne” on the yellow wire, you can see that my wiring from the side panel to the battery utilized some black innerduct (available at all auto parts stores) to hide the colored wires from sight. This duct has a slit along its side allowing for easy insertion and removal of wiring. The innerduct is also easily routed in the vast cavity between the battery holder down behind the side panel and ending up by the fuse block. Here is a diagram on the relay wiring I utilized: http://www.magicmomentsphotography.biz/0001BrewMisc/IgnitionBypass/JPEG/relayWiring.jpg You can now mount the fuse block back into position. We are ready to test. With everything now hooked up, when the ignition key is turned to the “on” position, the relay will energize (you will hear it ‘click’ on) and pass the 30amp circuit on to the Brown/Blue wire going into the 4 circuit bus bar. Your headlights will immediately come on to indicate your relay is working correctly. You should be able to successfully start your bike at this time. If the headlights do not come on when your ignition switch is “on” and you cannot start your bike, you should check for a faulty relay by replacing it with a known good one. This should get you back on the road. If you do not have a spare relay then it is easy enough to remove the side panel, then untwist the posi-twists, and put your Brown/Blue wire back together with itself by using just one of the posi-twists. Since everything is back to its original wiring, when you turn the key, you should now have headlights and should now be able to start your bike. I made up a couple of wire jumpers to throw in the tool box (not officially a tool) in case the two ends of the Brown/Blue wires ended up being a tad short when trying to splice them back together in the posi-twist. http://www.magicmomentsphotography.biz/0001BrewMisc/IgnitionBypass/JPEG/spares.jpg A good way to ensure you will always have a spare relay for starting your bike is to install a loud air compressor type of horn on your RSTD. Steibel makes a chrome one that mounts in the exact location as the puny sounding original horn. Carbon One makes a great looking bracket for this that makes installation a breeze and is worth its weight in gold. Check the classified section under Carbon One for details. If your headlights don’t come on and you can’t start your bike due to the relay becoming faulty, rob the relay from your horn circuit as it is the same type of relay. By the way, there is more than enough room for the horn relay to fit right next to the ignition bypass relay under your seat. Just remember to get a relay for that horn circuit at your next stop along the way. Ride safe everyone! -Wayne in Monticello, MN. Yamaha Recall adobe .pdf file

This is a good idea, but be careful as piecing it out can become spendy. Know that for less than $10 bucks more than the parts listed above, I bought new washer plates and the new petcock assembly. No plastic parts, now all metal.

The "backup" fuse is actually for parts of the speedometer. The tail and brake lights actually get their juice from the "headlight" fuse. Your brake switches, provide the ground to power the brake light side of the circuit. If your speedometer lights, headlights, front left and front right position lights are working your tail lights should be receiving power unless their is an "open" circuit somewhere between the tail light and the rest of the circuit. As mentioned above, their is a connector under the seat for this wiring. If it is connected, pull it apart and check with a meter to see if you are getting power here when you turn your key on. If so, then your problem lies in the wiring between this connector under the seat and the rear fender. If this was a sudden occurence, you may want to check for a bad or broken connector/connection. Good luck.

yup, that was the chart originally consulted, djh3. note that for all models prior to year 2001, they call for the 8125L for the clutch bleeder. That would be way too long. The 8125 is the perfect replacement on the 97 RSTD so that the square rubber protector fits back into place perfectly. The chart also states the 8125L should be used for the front caliper bleeders. Those also are way too long. Since the chart was wrong about the clutch bleeder, it led to my hesitation on the front caliper bleeders. But you are correct, I should give them a call. Thanks, and ride safe!!

I had just fininshed putting my right front brake caliper back together after tearing it completely down to polish the pistons, remove the old seals and clean out all the gunk from the cylinder walls. I found that for my '97 RSTD, the SB7100's are indeed the wrong size bleeder for the front calipers. It stripped out only about 1/3 the way in. Thank goodness only the threads on the speed bleeder were harmed. I was literally sweating when I re-inserted the original bleeder until it seated snugly and I knew all was well with the caliper threads. I did have the SB8125 bleeders on hand also as the Clymer manual stated the same parts are used for the rear and the front calipers. The SB8125 were longer than the original but they did look like they were the correct thread size. So I backed out the original bleeder once again and placed the 8125 in its place. When it was snugged into position, it was not tight enough as brake fluid pumped through the tubing as if I had opened it a quarter turn. After ruining the SB7100 bleeder threads, I was not about to tempt fate any further, so I again placed the original bleeder back into position and finished all the bleeding with that one. Although my goal of utilizing the speed bleeders was not realized, after bleeding both front calipers, I am going to have to re-teach myself on applying the greatly improved front braking capabilities. Someday, if someone confirms that the SB8125 are indeed the correct bleeders for the front calipers on a '97 RSTD, I may try again to replace those originals with the Speed Bleeders. --Ride safely!!

Taz, just wondering if you have a typical charge for your swap outs? Or does it all depend on what was needed to get that bank of carbs functional again???

not only have you made a new friend(s) with your assistance, but as the youngsters get a little older, your spirit of rendering aid will hopefully be passed on through them.. not to mention you can almost rest assured that your home will NOT ever be a target for halloween pranks ...

I also have noticed little things which differ between 97 RSTD's.. my saddle bags have side protectors while I see many that do not. I just always chalked it up to the options ordered or installed on the bikes (much like all the options avail to cage owners), but I could be wrong.

Problem solved... 10 psi low in front and 10 psi low in the rear... Haven't noticed the wobble anymore so far.. keeping fingers crossed...

The actual part number for the fuel cock assembly (number 24 in the screen shot above) has been changed from 2GU-24500-01 in that screen shot image to the updated part number of 2GU-24500-02-00 Also, if changing out the assembly, you should also change out the two plate washers that seal the mounting screws to the tank. Mine were so brittle they would have disintegrated if I had tried to pry them from the old assembly for reuse. That part number is 90202-05187-00 and was number 29 in the screen shot given.

I also tried the ace hardware visit to try and get a spare made. They made one from a blank utilizing the closest match they could. Unfortunately, it did not work. They mentioned that if I had a yamaha blank then it probably would have worked. Since that time I was fortunate and found my spare set. But I still have no key code either. If it were me, I would do one of two things: 1) order a blank off the ebay site which was posted and hopefully get one cut. OR 2) Take up the offer given to you above by Mike. That is one of the most generous offers I have seen in a while. I do not know Mike, but if it were me, this is the path I would choose. You would know that sooner or later you would end up with the correct key AND more importantly, the correct key code for your bike. If there is ever a new owner down the road, they will appreciate you for this. just my humble opinion... hope everything works out for you!! -Wayne

So I take it they were the correct, but "non-yamaha", replacements??

In 1997 the amount of ethanol in the gas was far less than the increased percentage we are getting from the gas pumps today. Last summer the carbs in my 97RSTD decided to puke the gas. So, with the intent of migrating to non-oxygenated gasoline (zero ethanol) I completely tore apart my carbs, cleaned thoroughly, and replaced all rubber that had come into contact with the ethanol gasoline (except for the diaphragms). The diaphragms were inspected and one had multiple pinholes which needed replacement. I ordered that replacement from here: Sirius website ... If you mention you're a member of this forum you should get a slight discount. That site also shows the needle valve sets and float o-rings. Ask your local yamaha dealer if they will price match. Most of them will and you help keep the money in the community that way. For my 28mm carbs I used this site to obtain the part numbers: Yamaha Parts House To replace all the other rubber you will need items 6,7,30,and 44 from that diagram. I will leave the carb cleaning technique up to you. If your 28mm carbs are not the MIKUNI carbs then I apologize and please ignore this post ...edit.... sorry Brenda... for some reason the yamaha link always comes up with side cover assembly. find the button which says "change assembly" and migrate to the carburetors.. if you take the part numbers to your local yamaha dealer, they should be able to get the parts in within a week.. good luck, and sorry bout the side cover thingamabobbywhatchamacallitwrongpagethingy...

rather than drill into a battery, I vote for the Fyninfool method above!!