Help needed with fuel issues

[Guest Jarhead Biker]

Hello all,

 

I'm trying to figure out exactly what the problem might be with my bike. I think the fuel pump is bad, but, I'm hoping that someone can either verify this, or give me some other idea(s) as to what the problem might be.

 

I rode my bike in the Bikes, Blues, and Barbecue rally in Fayeteville, AR on Saturday, 27 Sep 14. Estimating mileage for that particular trip at approximately 250 miles. (All day, to and from the rally, and riding around town a bit).

 

The bike ran great, and I didn't have any problems at all during the day. Upon returning home, I parked the bike outside of my mobile home, and covered it with a tarp, as I normally do. The following morning, I noticed gasoline leaking under the bike, near the front of the right muffler.

 

I attempted to find the source of the leak, but was unsuccessful in doing so. Because I had just had surgery two weeks before, I wasn't able to bend over far enough to actually get a good look in the engine area of the bike. However, two days later, with the help of a neighbor, we determined that the leak was coming from the hose going from the shutoff/petcock under the fuel tank, to one of the filters on the left side of the bike. There are two (2) metal "hooks" that the fuel line is supposed to "ride" in, apparently to help keep the hose stable from vibrations.

 

A few days later, I was finally able to bend over enough to get the hose out, and replace it with some new fuel line. However, because the bike hadn't been started for several days by that time, it was quite a task getting the engine started again! After several minutes of trying, with the choke on, it finally started. I let the bike run for about 5 minutes, when the engine died. Then, I couldn't get it started again.

 

I then put my finger on the side of the fuel pump, and turned the key to the ON position. I DID NOT HEAR OR FEEL the pump running. I turned the key OFF, then tried again, about five or six times.

 

At least two times, I could feel the pump vibrate. However, it felt more like a heart beat (short intermittent vibrations), rather than a continuous flow/pumping as I had noticed in the past. I then disconnected the hose between the pump and the carburetor to try a visual inspection, and see if it was pumping fuel, while turning the key ON and OFF a few times.

 

Twice, it DID squirt fuel intermittently. However, three times, it didn't squirt at all! So, my thinking is that my fuel pump has gone out, or is on it's way out.

 

Can anyone give me any suggestions? I am not a motorcycle mechanic! I know the basics of the internal combustion engine, and have done some extensive wrenching on engines in a car and truck, including a total engine rebuild. However, getting to some of the parts of the engine on a motorcycle is much more complicated than getting to the engine in an older model truck or car! Especially, a fully dressed tour bike like mine!

 

I'm hoping to learn how to work on my own motorcycle, eventually. But, I can't seem to find a motorcycle mechanic who is willing and able to work on a VINTAGE bike. I'm finding that most dealers/mechanics won't even touch a motorcycle if it's more than five (5) years old. Much less, take the time to try to TEACH someone else to do it!

 

Unfortunately, this is the main reason that I haven't had a motorcycle for longer periods of time than what I have. This is the fourth bike I've had in the past 15 years. All of them have been 80's models. But, with the first three bikes that I've owned, I've ended up selling them when they started having mechanical issues. Simply because I don't know how to work on them myself, and I haven't been able to find a motorcycle mechanic who was willing to work on them without charging me an arm and a leg!

 

I really love this bike, and I'm really hoping to be able to keep and enjoy it for a few years! But, if I can't get some help with it, I'm going to end up having to sell it, just like I have the first three bikes that I've owned!

 

Any help/advice/assistance that anyone is able to give would be very much appreciated! And, if there is anyone in the group who resides in the area of Missouri/Arkansas/Oklahoma/Kansas ("four corners") area, who might be willing and able to teach me a bit, in person, that would be even better!

[djh3]

I would say thats a pretty good indication the pump is going bad. I dont know if the pump on your bike is the same as the second gen, but those are notorious for the points going bad. they are replaceable for about $30 some odd dollars. some of us have just went ahead and changed to a Mr Gasket aftermarket pump. Wait for some of the more experienced 1st gen guys to be sure.

[Neil86]

Any possibility the replacement hose has a kink restricting flow to pump?

 

Have you also tried tank petcock in both positions....on & reserve?

[Guest Jarhead Biker]

djh3: I have no idea about the pump being the same as the 2nd gen bike pumps. However, reading through some of the previous threads about fuel pump, the points issue seems to be a common problem with both gens So, I'll wait a bit for some more input from others, and see what I find out. Thanks for the input.

 

Neil86: I was sure to check, and double-check for kinks in the new hose when I put it in. No kinks, for sure. However, I wasn't able to secure the hose into the metal hook in the center of the frame, because I couldn't get my fat fingers into the very small, tight space to get the hose into the hook.

 

And, when I moved from AZ to AR, I made the move on my bike, pulling my small trailer behind. Therefore, with the very limited space, I was only able to bring a very limited amount of personal property, expecting to return to AZ to pick up the rest of my property to move it up here soon after the new year. Since I considered my clothes, hygiene items, and a few other miscellaneous items to be more of a necessity than my large toolboxes, I only brought a very limited supply of basic tools! Therefore, I don't even have a long enough screwdriver to reach into the center, to finnagle the hose into the hook!

 

So, this is something that I am already aware of, that will need to be fixed as soon as I can! Otherwise, the new hose will probably end up with a hole in it where it vibrates against that hook. But, I do know that I installed the line well enough to, at least, supply the fuel to the engine to get it started and run for a little bit, until I can get the hose secured.

[bongobobny]

Clogged fuel filter???

[Neil86]

By design power is normally available to the pump assembly for ~ 5 seconds after key is turned on (and kill switch), until engine rotation is detected. This is to prevent fuel being pumped out a leak when normally there should be no fuel required.

The points apply/break power to pump windings based on position of pump shaft.

 

You might want to verify that power is available at electrical connector at key on for the few seconds. It could be the pump relay has failed.

[Marcarl]

I'll second the pump relay. Remove headlight and then search under windshield for the relays, all nicely in a row at the top front behind the headlight. It's most likely the second from left as you face it. Take it out, drop it on the floor, put it back in and see if it works. Mine did for another 3 years after is had an attitude.

As for the hose from the petcock. It goes from the petcock to the fuel filter, in the process, like you noticed, it is held in place by 2 hooks. Reason for that is that it stays in place, for if it should move it is bound to get bit from the joint in the gas tank. Take a look and you'll see what I mean. Part of the joint should have a cover on it to prevent the hose from being cut. This happens when, as you ride, the suspension is compressed and the swing arm comes up to almost hit the tank,,, ya they could have designed that better!

[Guest Jarhead Biker]

Just wanted to let everyone know that I'm certainly not ignoring any responses, advice, suggestions or help! I try to, at least, check them daily, and think on them. But, I don't always respond or post right away.

 

I'm trying to get closed on a home that we are under contract on purchasing, so I've been keeping busy with it.

 

Thanks to a conversation with helihead1, as well as the responses on this thread, I now have some great ideas on what to check out, and hopefully, how to resolve the problem! So now, it's just a matter of coming up with the time, tools, and finances to do the work!

 

Within the next few days, I will be starting to take action with some, or all of these suggestions. Starting with a bottle of Seafoam and a couple of new fuel filters. In addition to what I assume is the "normal" setup on this bike (the cartridge style fuel filter mounted above the fuel pump), I have a second in-line cylindrical-type fuel filter on the hose going from the OUT side of the pump, to the carburetor. It is my understanding that a previous owner of the bike probably added this secondary filter as a "just in case" option. So, I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and replace this filter at the same time, or if I should simply replace the entire section of the hose, and simply eliminate the secondary filter at the same time I replace the cartridge filter? But, my primary reason for this post is just to let everyone know that your help is not being ignored!

 

I certainly don't want to give the wrong impression to people, and am not throwing my own "pity party". But, hoping that the following will help everyone understand my situation: I am on a fixed income, and have NO EXPERIENCE with motorcycle mechanics, and very limited experience with internal combustion engine mechanics. Further, I moved from AZ to AR, then to MO, ON MY BIKE, pulling my tow-behind trailer . With the limited cargo space available, I wasn't able to bring much with me. So, most of my tools are still in Arizona! Thus, another reason that fixing the problem is taking a while!

 

Thanks again for the help. I will certainly keep everyone updated on the progress, as slow as it might be!

[lonestarmedic]

Don't worry, there is a pump available from Airtex that fits a Honda Civic. It works with only very slight modification. I believe body size is just a bit larger. Inlet and outlets ate off the end in the same configuration as the OEM. The filter on the outbound side of the pump is not needed. The one on the inlet side is enough. Do not damage the crossover hose from the petcock to the pump. It is discontinued. You can make a new one but it will not be as neat. Problem is keeping the hose away from the rear tire and the shock body. I have a normal thick hose in place right now. I am going to purchase a hose with a thinner wall so I can get it threaded through the clamps and holders easier.