Art708 Posted January 24, 2011 Share #1 Posted January 24, 2011 So....if you remove the insert from the wheel can the needle bearings fall out or are they caged to prevent this happening? Thanks............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcarl Posted January 24, 2011 Share #2 Posted January 24, 2011 So....if you remove the insert from the wheel can the needle bearings fall out or are they caged to prevent this happening? Thanks............... What exactly do you mean by 'insert'. If you remove the axle, all is well, nothing will fall out, if you try to remove the spacer in between the bearings, buy new bearings first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art708 Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share #3 Posted January 24, 2011 What exactly do you mean by 'insert'. If you remove the axle, all is well, nothing will fall out, if you try to remove the spacer in between the bearings, buy new bearings first. There's an insert or bushing that slides into the center of the needle bearings that the axle goes through. To grease the bearings this whatever it's called must be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcarl Posted January 24, 2011 Share #4 Posted January 24, 2011 There's an insert or bushing that slides into the center of the needle bearings that the axle goes through. To grease the bearings this whatever it's called must be removed. Best leave that in place as well,, it's part of the bearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art708 Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted January 24, 2011 Best leave that in place as well,, it's part of the bearing. So when they say to grease the needle bearings you can't right? Not if you have to leave that in place. It has to come out to get grease into the bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyDog Posted January 24, 2011 Share #6 Posted January 24, 2011 I just serviced my '83 XVZ-12 this last weekend and replaced both the wheel bearings and all the seals. The wheel didn't have any current problems, just wanted to get the 28 year old bearings out before they caused a on-road problem. The needle bearing does have a inner race spacer that can be removed for service, but you have to pull the grease seal first. It can be removed and reused if done carefully. My old bearings were a bear to remove. I had to drive out the larger ball bearing using a long punch through the center of the wheel from the opposite side. The needle bearing could only be removed after I drilled a hole through the inner flange inside the wheel to drive out the bearing with a long small diameter punch. I used a good quality waterproof bearing grease on the needle bearing and repacked the other ball bearing after carefully removing the bearing seals. I cleaned and greased the drive pins and used Honda Moly60 grease for the drive splines. The wheel spins very smoothly and shouldn't give me any trouble for a long time. The front wheel is next with the bearings and seals already purchased and waiting. Having a bike lift makes the job alot easier on the back. I also took the opportunity to grease the rear suspension linkage (grease fittings already added earlier) and inspect the welded gussets that I added in 2009 to repair a minor crack in the lower frame tube and prevent any further frame failures (all was found as I left it, no further cracks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art708 Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share #7 Posted January 24, 2011 I just serviced my '83 XVZ-12 this last weekend and replaced both the wheel bearings and all the seals. The wheel didn't have any current problems, just wanted to get the 28 year old bearings out before they caused a on-road problem. The needle bearing does have a inner race spacer that can be removed for service, but you have to pull the grease seal first. It can be removed and reused if done carefully. My old bearings were a bear to remove. I had to drive out the larger ball bearing using a long punch through the center of the wheel from the opposite side. The needle bearing could only be removed after I drilled a hole through the inner flange inside the wheel to drive out the bearing with a long small diameter punch. I used a good quality waterproof bearing grease on the needle bearing and repacked the other ball bearing after carefully removing the bearing seals. I cleaned and greased the drive pins and used Honda Moly60 grease for the drive splines. The wheel spins very smoothly and shouldn't give me any trouble for a long time. The front wheel is next with the bearings and seals already purchased and waiting. Having a bike lift makes the job alot easier on the back. I also took the opportunity to grease the rear suspension linkage (grease fittings already added earlier) and inspect the welded gussets that I added in 2009 to repair a minor crack in the lower frame tube and prevent any further frame failures (all was found as I left it, no further cracks). I just slid the collar out and put some grease on the needles with my finger and slid the collar back in....should be fine.. Thanks all for the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted January 25, 2011 Share #8 Posted January 25, 2011 The needle bearing should not need greased. It is exposed to 90 weight gear oil from inside of the differential. The service manual recommends 'lightweight lithium-soap base grease' when installing though. Not sure if putting wheel bearing grease on this bearing is a good idea or not. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99silver Posted January 25, 2011 Share #9 Posted January 25, 2011 2nd Gen not the same as a 1st Gen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Butler Posted January 25, 2011 Share #10 Posted January 25, 2011 You know guys, Even though Yamaha calls this a collar, I have always considered it an inner race (that just happens to have a collar to keep it in place). And Art, if the needle bearings fall out when you remove this collar, "IT IS TIME" to replace them. They reside in a housing where they are very tightly bound together exactly like the 2nd Gen suspension linkage bearings and will not come out. So you are right to want to grease these bearing....which need it after a period of time. I have seen these bearings to a point that they were so dry that they were making a terrible grinding noise. And when my friend pulled the axle, they all fell out. He spent over an hour with a pot of heavy bearing grease gently placing/packing all of these needle bearings back into the housing so he could get home. Hope this helps, Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted January 25, 2011 Share #11 Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) 2nd Gen not the same as a 1st Gen. Looking at the RSV service manual (which is never wrong, i jest) it shows the left side bearing should be exposed to oil, seal appears to be on outboard side. Picture below is from 1999 service manual, page 7-87 for reference.. #3 is thrust washer, below that is needle bearing, then the seal, last is a collar. This is almost identical to the first Gens. Never have seen one, so I very well may be wrong. (Edit) Per Rick Butler's previous post, then is the bearing actually on the very outboard side of the housing? How is it protected from dirt? How different can rear end be, I thought RSV's could use a Vmax as a drop in replacement, which will drop in a 1st gen. Gary http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/rearend.jpg Edited January 25, 2011 by dingy Saw Ricks prior post while I was typing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art708 Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share #12 Posted January 25, 2011 The needle bearing should not need greased. It is exposed to 90 weight gear oil from inside of the differential. The service manual recommends 'lightweight lithium-soap base grease' when installing though. Not sure if putting wheel bearing grease on this bearing is a good idea or not. Gary Well...they are greased now whether they should be or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art708 Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share #13 Posted January 25, 2011 You know guys, Even though Yamaha calls this a collar, I have always considered it an inner race (that just happens to have a collar to keep it in place). And Art, if the needle bearings fall out when you remove this collar, "IT IS TIME" to replace them. They reside in a housing where they are very tightly bound together exactly like the 2nd Gen suspension linkage bearings and will not come out. So you are right to want to grease these bearing....which need it after a period of time. I have seen these bearings to a point that they were so dry that they were making a terrible grinding noise. And when my friend pulled the axle, they all fell out. He spent over an hour with a pot of heavy bearing grease gently placing/packing all of these needle bearings back into the housing so he could get home. Hope this helps, Rick Thanks Rick. Mine weren't dry but they looked to me like they should be greased so I went ahead and did it. None fell out and the collar seemed to be a nice close fit so I assumed that everything was fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingy Posted January 25, 2011 Share #14 Posted January 25, 2011 Here is a picture of the bearing in question on my FJR rear end, which I realize is way out on a limb here. But, in the FJR service manual, it appears the same as the 1st & 2nd gen arrangements. This bearing should be exposed to gear oil an all three. But I am the village idiot when it comes to RSV's. Gary http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/PICT5385s.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyDog Posted January 25, 2011 Share #15 Posted January 25, 2011 The needle bearings I was talking about are the ones in the wheel itself, not in the rear differential. The wheel needle bearings are on the left side of the wheel inside the splined end. These needle bearings aren't part of the rear end differential but are part of the wheel itself. The inner spacer/race is a separate part that is removeable and is shown on the parts diagram as #28 and the needle bearing is #3. I have a first gen mark 1 so the later bikes are probably different. The set up is similar to the XS1100 and this link is for a replacement on that bike http://www.xs11.com/xs11-info/tech-tips/repairs/other/193-rear-wheel-bearing-replacement-pictorial.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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