Rear Shaft flex seal...help

[jasonm.]

Since I have my wheel off waiting for a tire. I decided to seperate the shaft from the drive to inspect "stuff" aka pinion nut. Pinion nut = good. I did this 15 years ago. Wow, how have things changed. NOW, the seal I believe needs to be replaced. Basically there is a rust ring left by the rubber seal where it mates to the drive. Plus the original seal was never sitting straight. So the rust ring is not even. Basicallly the seal is "tipped". And a new seal would likely be better than the original. Here's the kicker...this ain't no average seal. It appears to be on the shaft with a VERY tight metal collar. I suspect if I do get this seal off there will be rust under the collar. Anyone ever change this seal? HELP See pics...

Edited August 4, 2010 by jasonm.

[MiCarl]

I did mine a couple years ago. If I remember correctly the "collar" is a steel band around the rubber at the shaft. I think I cut the band to get the old one off and tapped the new one down the shaft with a drift.

[jasonm.]

On the shaft, was the area under the band rusted? If yes, how bad? and did the new seal have enough thickness and tension to easily seal? Seems any steel in contact with rubber long enough gets a bit of rust. I show in #1 pic , the seal "unrolled". That is a full stripe of rust closest to the seal at the collar Even though that it is the side facing the oil. The seal was sort of folded onto itself. And bonded to the collar and rusted. Any input is helpful.

Edited August 5, 2010 by jasonm.

[MiCarl]

I don't recall any rust on mine.

 

That band of rust between the seal and the splines is not a collar as I recall. It's a shoulder on the drive shaft. The seal stops against it.

 

The band I'm speaking of is not visible in your pictures. It's on the right of the seal as oriented in your pictures. I don't remember if it's exposed or molded into the rubber. I do remember breaking it to get the seal off the shaft.

[jasonm.]

The reason I believed that collar in the pic closest to the splines is part of the seal. It has black paint on it. I know they do not paint any part of the drive shaft. And I can clearly see where the collar stops at the splines. I will post a better pic later today.

[jasonm.]

see the collar. I believe that is part of the seal. It is significantly wider than the shaft. Thus holding the seal in place. I do know they updated -changed the part #.

[MiCarl]

Hard to see pictures on this crappy monitor at work. I may remember wrong about which side the band is on.

 

Might want to procure the new seal before tearing in to see if that is part of the seal.

[jasonm.]

I will order one in the morning. Meanwhile I have other Yamaha shafts in my garage..Maybe one is the right spec. even though Yamaha's web site say the #'s are not the same part#

[jasonm.]

Well is was not difficult to get the seal off with dremel cutting wheel. But it was a precise job to do. My seal is on order. Now I am trying to figure out. Once the seal is on the shaft. Then you place the drive shaft in the spline coupler. NOTING:This seal is the only thing keeping the drive shaft from falling out when you remove the whole drive(pumpkin). The orignal was crooked, but not leaking. There is a good 1 inch area this can sit. SO, How far do you push the seal down into the coupler? half way, all the way or just place it at the end?

[Squeeze]

I put the Shaft in the U-Joint and just fit the rear Splines into the Collar in the Final Drive, then mount the Pumpkin.

[jasonm.]

I put the Shaft in the U-Joint and just fit the rear Splines into the Collar in the Final Drive, then mount the Pumpkin.

 

 

Ahh, but that may not insure the seal is properly placed in the spline socket, depth wise. As it takes some force to put it in evenly...I just need to know if anyone have witnessed how deept their's sits or if they replaced their's. Again, prior to disassembly, mine was a quite a bit angled(cocked), due to what I do not know other than poor assembly.

[Squeeze]

I can only tell you what i know from maybe 20 or 30 times disassembling and assembling the Pumpkin on VRs and 1Gen Vmaxxes. The Shaft will snuck in the Collar and i had never leak any of those. I had my 1Gen Max apart for many more Times than i can count, because i need to undo the Pumpkin to get my Rim out for a Tire Change.

[jasonm.]

Maybe I am not clear. The shaft was removed from the drive unit(pumpkin). I know the old seal is easy to put in. I am replacing the seal. A NEW seal needs to pushed in. Q: how far? Yes the washer just in front of the seal will help. But my original was cocked. And this is not best.

[Squeeze]

Well, i rest the Case ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I should, but i try it one more Time ...

 

 

 

 

What i was saying ....

 

YOU don't need to push the Drive Shaft into the Collar at all.

 

 

You stick the Drive Shaft into the U-Joint(that's the front End of the Drive Shaft) and just fit the Final Drive onto the rear Splines of the Drive Shaft.

 

The Drive Shaft will make it's Way into the Collar on its own after tightened the four Acorn Nuts on the final Drive Casing. It will get inside the Collar as deep as it will and without any damage to the new Seal.

 

If you're overly afraid of damaging the Seal, you could put a small Dab of Grease on the Outside Lip of the Oil Sealto make sure it slides in without any Binding. (I never did an haven't had any negative Outcome in doing so)

 

 

DONE

[Squeeze]

Well, it occured to me that you possible talk about the Position of the Seal on the Drive Shaft. That's self explanatory. There's a Circlip, which works as a Stopper goes on the Drives Shaft first, then comes the Seal, then the Washer and then the second Circlip. This results in an absolute Position of the Seal of the Drive Shaft.

 

http://images.powersportsnetwork.com/fiche/images/YAMAHA/1987/Motorcycles/224_driveshaft.gif

 

http://www.partshark.com/fiche_image_popup.asp?fveh=224&section=8409&year=1987&make=YAMAHA&category=Motorcycles&dc=5364&name=DRIVE+SHAFT

[jasonm.]

I am not disagreeing with you for a used seal that has been on the shaft for years. Have you replaced this seal? But the NEW seal will not just slide in STRAIGHT, it's new. I guess a bit of grease your way is good. But you should see the rust ring in the "socket" from my seal being in the same cocked position for 17 years. I can post a pic if you like? Why the rust is there?...could be when I did the removal and inspection then...a drop of sweat got in there. I remember it clearly, Hot day. I hope the new seal , which they updated the part# will be broad enough to insure no leakage.

[jasonm.]

Hey Squeeze. Well, after consulting with a few OLD Yamaha mechanics who went to training for Ventures and FJRs, and using common sense. It was agreed. Your way is not truly the best or the way it's done at the factory. At least regarding the NEW type seal. The seal not only keeps the oil in, it also HOLDS the large end of the shaft in the spline socket at a specific(proper) depth. Determiined by how far you press it in. I found PVC pipe that set this perfectly. If I did it your way, put the shaft in the U-joint 1st, then put the "pumkin" on...you lose the correct depth of engagement of the splines in the pumpkin. Especially with the new type seal. The new seal has a "sharp" edge towards the pumpkin and a rounded edge towards the shaft.The NEW seal after being set on the shaft, is to be pushed into the "socket" approx. 5mm or so in depth from the entry of the spline socket. This can be checked by installing the large washer and snap ring. The washer should be flush or up to 4 mm recessed into the socket. This keeps proper spring tension and depth. "This NEW seal is not to be greased before installation into the "socket" or ever removed unless it fails for some reason". You gain nothing by removing it and the shaft on a 1300. AND If not set deep and "square" enough ...the spring puts pressure on the Ujoint and causes "wobbling and hammering of the drive shaft". This will not cause any failures and likely would not be noticed while driving. BUT, It's not what Yamaha intended.

I know you are going to say..."The 1200s have the spring but no seal. What's this wobbling and hammering crap"?... But this is what I was told. And it all made sense to me. Especially when you consider the 1200s had their shaft issues. I thought you should know what multiple Yamaha techs and managers told me...... And now my tire is on order. Thanks.

Edited August 17, 2010 by jasonm.

[Squeeze]

Sure, the Drive Shaft has to be put into the final Drive Collar before mounting, of Course at proper Spacing, which is determined by Mech working on it.

 

Otherwise that big powerfull Spring between Pinion Gear and Drive Shaft will just push the Drive Shaft through the U-Joint and into the angled Gear... Wear Safety Glasses and proper Body Armour, three Layers of Kevlar at least. Last Advise, better stay out of the Way of the Drive Shaft, once it comes loose by Accident, it will take off like a RPG.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope any body see the sarcastic here ...

 

Nothing beats the Expirience of old and trained Mechs. Their Knowledge is the holy Grail, too bad they don't post too much here or in other Boards.

[MiCarl]

Sure, the Drive Shaft has to be put into the final Drive Collar before mounting, of Course at proper Spacing, which is determined by Mech working on it.

 

Otherwise that big powerfull Spring between Pinion Gear and Drive Shaft will just push the Drive Shaft through the U-Joint and into the angled Gear... Wear Safety Glasses and proper Body Armour, three Layers of Kevlar at least. Last Advise, better stay out of the Way of the Drive Shaft, once it comes loose by Accident, it will take off like a RPG.

 

I always thought that spring was just an extra part. Glad to know it has a purpose!