Iowa Guy Posted October 19, 2007 Share #1 Posted October 19, 2007 My wife and I sent our middle son to Dana College this fall. He went on academic and athletic scholarships. He runs cross country and is majoring in chemistry. Highschool GPA was 3.8+ and he has had a strong history of community service, no trouble ever etc... (My bragging list is long). Two weeks ago he got his first major paper back from his composition prof with a big zero on the front. When he asked she said that he had plagiarized & he found that his roommate also received a zero. He didn't understand how since they'd only discussed topics but no specifics for this paper. His roommate denied copying the paper. Now this is serious because it could jeopardize his scholarships, whether he could run for the cross country team and even risks expulsion from the class or even school itself. When he had a meeting with the prof she laughed at his questions insisting that he very well knew what was going on because the two papers were word for word identical. His roommate again denied he had copied the paper. He said he couldn't show my son his paper because he'd deleted it from his own computor knowing that he'd get the finished one back from the prof. Only later when my son found the plagiarized paper on roommates computor did roommate confess that he had taken my son's paper from his desk and copied it. Roommate said he would tell the prof he'd plagiarized which he did. The prof offered them a chance to do the papers over again and she would give each of them half credit. This was unfair enough but here is where it get really weird. Prof withdrew her offer when she was reminded college protocol stated that she had to take it to the Dean and then to an academic counsel made up of other profs. Great! With a confession from the roommate, my son should be off the hook, get the credit he deserved for the paper and all is well with the world. But no! The academic counsel ruling that both boys will receive zeroes. The roommate because he plagiarized and my son because he did not adequately protect his work allowing his roommate the opportunity to plagiarize. With this "blame the victom" logic, a casualty of sexual assault would be told she should have kept her legs together and then sent to prison along with the rapist. We are trying not to be "helicopter parents" or hovering overhead but instead just being supportive. It is hard. I am hoping he will appeal but know that he might risk even more severe consequences if he does. It is a small thing in the big scope of the world. He is smart and healthy and will certainly make it one way or the other. Darn kid. I guess its time he finds out about life outside mom & dad's house. Sometimes great and sometimes rough. Iowa Guy Tim Lantz PS He has applied for a new roommate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackjack Posted October 19, 2007 Share #2 Posted October 19, 2007 For what it's worth, I would suggest that your son needs to find out what the protocol is for challenging the decision of this council and he should, with your support and assistance, pursue every possible remedy, perhaps even legal! He should not stop or give up until a satisfactory ruling is provided. He must not and cannot accept anything less than a favorable outcome. Additionally, he should immediately request (demand, actually) that his roommate be removed into different living quarters, given the grievous, dishonest, and compromising nature of his behavior. The "life lesson" that needs to be learned here is that, when necessary, you have to fight for what's right and that anything less than a victory is just not acceptable. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted October 19, 2007 Share #3 Posted October 19, 2007 the easy thing to do is roll over . a pubic court will alway make a collage roll over . he needs to appeal the ruling and have the board show just cause in writing . before he does that he needs to contact the tv. and newspapers , just the request for interviews to the collage from the reporters will make the collage back track . or you can have your lawyer send a letter say he needs to look into the matter on you and your son's behalf , get your lawyer to send it , not you . pubic court and parents with lawyers scare the crap out collages . if it was just the roommate and your son fighting ya let him learn but it is the collage coming down on him , he needs a little help . i have sat on them and been before them and there is nothing more self centered or self serving than a collage board . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidrow Posted October 19, 2007 Share #4 Posted October 19, 2007 What About The Press...bad Publicity Can Be Just As Scary As Angry Parents With An Attorney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Owl Posted October 19, 2007 Share #5 Posted October 19, 2007 If the college has an Honors/Ethics Committee, your son should also request a hearing/review by the committee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leland Posted October 19, 2007 Share #6 Posted October 19, 2007 The sad thing is that you are dealing with Morons educated way beyond their intelligence. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redneck Posted October 20, 2007 Share #7 Posted October 20, 2007 I see this situation as an opportunity not just an unfortunate inconvenience. your son has the opportunity to learn several very valuable lessons that will carry him farther than a college degree. He should do what ever research is necessary to follow this through and make them give him his due credit. I would give him all the suggestions I could and stay out of it myself as much as possible. having the ability to follow through with this and demand the credit and get it will give him confidence in his ability to stand up for his rights and not let people or institutions walk on him. I would also do all I could to let him know he should not in any way try to get revenge on his roommate because it will hurt him more than he can ever hurt the roommate. good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipshot Posted October 20, 2007 Share #8 Posted October 20, 2007 I see this situation as an opportunity not just an unfortunate inconvenience. your son has the opportunity to learn several very valuable lessons that will carry him farther than a college degree. He should do what ever research is necessary to follow this through and make them give him his due credit. I would give him all the suggestions I could and stay out of it myself as much as possible. having the ability to follow through with this and demand the credit and get it will give him confidence in his ability to stand up for his rights and not let people or institutions walk on him. I would also do all I could to let him know he should not in any way try to get revenge on his roommate because it will hurt him more than he can ever hurt the roommate. good luck very well put, mike. you have shown ,yet another side of your "philosophical self". and i have to say, for once, i totally agree with you. life is about lessons learned,be it in a classroom, a boardroom, or at the "school of hard knocks". now tell us, where'd you read that! lol just jt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmiles3 Posted October 20, 2007 Share #9 Posted October 20, 2007 There's a student conduct code involved. There is a prescribed method for this situation. Might involve requesting a hearing by whatever group is in charge of student ethics violations. Worst case, he gets a poor grade in the class. Best case, he gets a chance to make up the paper for partial credit. Lawyers will lead to a quick trip to the exit door. Even if you win, he loses. The athletics department of most schools have a counselor or two that might be able to give him some good advice. Not that student athletes have ever been known to plagiarize... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iowa Guy Posted October 20, 2007 Author Share #10 Posted October 20, 2007 Thanks all for the support and comments Iowa Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Posted October 20, 2007 Share #11 Posted October 20, 2007 They are following the corporate model in trying to avoid any blame for anything. They blame one student for copying then the other for not hiding the text. This leaves them in the clear. It's called CYA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iowa Guy Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share #12 Posted January 8, 2008 After submitting character references, an opinion from another Dean of a major university in Texas and an opinion from our attorney along with our stated willingness to sue the college, our son was cleared of everything. He didn't get an apology but hey. Iowa Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarges46 Posted January 8, 2008 Share #13 Posted January 8, 2008 That was a long fight! Sure glad it worked out the way it should have. It never should have got that far....what a bunch of doodles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini-muffin Posted January 8, 2008 Share #14 Posted January 8, 2008 Might want to tell your son from now on to password protect his computer. Doesn't matter how nice you think someone is, temptation is always there. Better safe then sorry. I've heard stories like this before. Glad this one worked out better then some of the others I've heard. Margaret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Yamahawg Posted January 8, 2008 Share #15 Posted January 8, 2008 I have to ask. What kind of Grade did he receive on his paper? *Grins* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturous Randy Posted January 9, 2008 Share #16 Posted January 9, 2008 After submitting character references, an opinion from another Dean of a major university in Texas and an opinion from our attorney along with our stated willingness to sue the college, our son was cleared of everything. He didn't get an apology but hey. Iowa Guy \ Kind of like the boys at Duke University where there should have been a lot of apologies. RandyA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brscooter Posted January 9, 2008 Share #17 Posted January 9, 2008 As a long time cop I feel that sometimes it is good for youngsters to get in trouble as long as it is not too bad and doesn't mess them up. It shows them how easy it is to get in trouble and the costs of getting out of it. A small fender bender or a ticket is a good example. It can teach them how fast things happen and how easy it will happen. A simple lesson on picking your fiends better, like if you get stopped by the police and you don't do drugs but your supposed friend does and you don't know it. The kid drops his joint on the floorboard and denies it is his so since it is your car you catch the charge. A good friend right? Sometimes kids only learn with a hammer, when you are using it. Thank goodness things worked out so well for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRadi8 Posted January 10, 2008 Share #18 Posted January 10, 2008 The roommate because he plagiarized and my son because he did not adequately protect his work allowing his roommate the opportunity to plagiarize. Really? Where EXACTLY IN WRITING is it stated that is a requirement? No paper can be left in the open, no computer left unattended? BULL****! Nope, I'd be up the Dean's ass with this crap. Where is the past judgments? Notification of the responsibility? What a bunch of crap. Edit: Glad to hear it somewhat worked out, but it was still ridiculous that it was handled that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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