middle gear issues

[meach]

I haven't posted here in a while, have dropped in from time to time to see whats going on.

 

On camping trip last weekend bike started making clanking noises, we were headed to town just going 40 mph or so, long story short I hooked up with maintenance guy at campground and used a floor jack to raise rear wheel to better isolate noise, hard to tell where it was coming from, new it was in the drive train toward front of shaft. Ran motor at idle with wheel off ground and can hear the clanking noise coming from middle gear housing. Went ahead and trailerd bike home rather than risk further damage. Originally sounded like something loose bouncing around inside motor, coasting with engine off you can feel a bind or something each rotation of wheel. While spinning tire in neutral on jack everything turns smoothly, no grinding, clicking etc., its only when in gear that you can hear the noise, doesn't matter which gear I was in coasting it sounded the same, clutch feels & works fine, all the gears shift & feel normal, engine runs fine. Was hoping it was just ujoint on shaft going bad but it seems fine.

 

Bike is an 07 with 40K on it, last couple years have been pulling a small cargo trailer a few times on camping trips.

 

Guess the first main question is can you get to the middle gears without removing engine and having to split crankcase? My plan is to tear everything down over the next couple months and do some other maintenance while everything is taken apart. Fortunately I have my VTX to keep riding as weather allows.

 

From what research I've done there haven't been many (if any) issues with the middle gears, wouldn't think pulling the cargo trailer would be that much of an issues, seems a lot of folks have pulled trailers with no issue.

 

Thanks for any insights or suggestions,

[MiCarl]

Some clatter from the transmission when idling in gear with the wheel off the ground is normal. The engine doesn't run perfectly smoothly and the gear dogs have some play in them that will rattle.

 

I'd start off by having a look at the universal joint under the rubber boot between the swing arm and engine case. I've never been in there so I'll leave it to others to guide you on checking it.

[meach]

Some clatter from the transmission when idling in gear with the wheel off the ground is normal. The engine doesn't run perfectly smoothly and the gear dogs have some play in them that will rattle.

 

I'd start off by having a look at the universal joint under the rubber boot between the swing arm and engine case. I've never been in there so I'll leave it to others to guide you on checking it.

 

Noise seems more than just the play in the gears, haven't ruled out ujoint. Noise sounded like something in the gear box moving around, would almost go away then clang and bang again then went away on the way back to camp. Next day we drove to town and bike seemed fine then on the way back from town started up again. It was the next morning we jacked it up and listened to see where it was coming from. I could feel the knocks thru the handle bars, almost like wheel hitting frame each rotation. Driving slowly I could tell something not right. Right now just gathering information. Have worked on numerous car drive shafts/ujoints over the years so will check that first once I pull it from bike then will go from there. Perhaps someone with experience pulling middles gears, etc. will chime in, seems it hasn't had to be done very often.

[videoarizona]

Meach, There are a couple of areas that showed occasional problems with the 1st gens. I'll mention them anyway even though I haven't seen much info on 2nd gens having the problem. Probably not your problem, but while you are in there, might be good idea to look. Oh and grease the driveshaft forward splines.

 

#1: is the middle gear shaft that transfers power from the engine through the ujoint. It tends to break at the end...where the nut is. The broken piece just sits inside the ujoint and the bike runs normally, except for additional whining noise during decel.

 

#2: The rear end of the drive shaft where it goes into the rear end. That is where mine broke. Bike still ran fine just more noise.

 

There are shims on the pinion gear that drives the middle gear...maybe something there let go or way to much play.

 

Anyway, if you don't have them, download the Shop manual and the parts manual pdf's from this site. The parts manual is good for looking at exploded diagrams showing what parts are where and with part numbers too.

 

Good luck...keep us posted what you find. These darn scoots are so reliable, when something happens, we all want to know about it!

[Great White]

Can't really add to the troubleshooting for ya, but if you do have to get into the transmission, the only way to get in there is to split the cases.

 

Sorry, you probably didn't want to hear that....

[meach]

Can't really add to the troubleshooting for ya, but if you do have to get into the transmission, the only way to get in there is to split the cases.

 

Sorry, you probably didn't want to hear that....

 

I have run across numerous thread regarding gen 1 tranny work but not much on gen 2, it seems on gen 1 the middle gear drive shaft assembly can be removed, was hoping gen 2 were the same so I could at least inspect middle drive. Just ran bike on stand putting a little pressure on rear brake to remove gear lash, no obvious noises. Might do a little coasting up and down street under different conditions (different gears, neutral, brake on and off, etc) to see effect on noise then will just go ahead and pull drive shaft and see how it looks and go from there. May have to sit the project aside for now, got some other pressing things to get done, out of town, etc. We use the venture for mostly 2 up camping trips, etc. and as the camping season winds down for the wife (she not a cold weather camper) I'll just keep on riding the VTX solo. (Took it solo up to the UP of MI earlier this summer.)

Edited October 15, 2015 by meach

[Great White]

I have run across numerous thread regarding gen 1 tranny work but not much on gen 2, it seems on gen 1 the middle gear drive shaft assembly can be removed, was hoping gen 2 were the same so I could at least inspect middle drive. Just ran bike on stand putting a little pressure on rear brake to remove gear lash, no obvious noises. Might do a little coasting up and down street under different conditions (different gears, neutral, brake on and off, etc) to see effect on noise then will just go ahead and pull drive shaft and see how it looks and go from there. May have to sit the project aside for now, got some other pressing things to get done, out of town, etc. We use the venture for mostly 2 up camping trips, etc. and as the camping season winds down for the wife (she not a cold weather camper) I'll just keep on riding the VTX solo. (Took it solo up to the UP of MI earlier this summer.)

 

Unfortunately, no. The middle drive is part of the engine casings. Yamaha shaft drive bikes prior to the xvz line (ie: XS, XJ, etc) had separate middle drives, but not the ventures.

 

The second gen Venture engine the same basic architecture as a 1st gen. Yammy just bolted on some covers and fins and changed things like carbs, ports, cams, gear ratios, etc.

 

Here's a pic of a split xvz case:

 

http://www.bikersassociationofnorthdevon.co.uk/images/VMAX96.jpg

 

Assembled:

 

http://www.venturers.org/Tech_Library/second/large/Repair_19.jpg

 

Xs1100 style middle drive:

 

http://www.muffsmotorsportsllc.com/products/CMP/CMPbig/CMPbig-694.JPG

 

Assembled:

 

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n122/anotherbikerboy/DSCF2491.jpg

 

Unfortunately, youre stuck splitting the case on an xvz to get to the transmission/middle drive. Now if its the yokes or the u joint, you can get to that without messing with the engine on an xvz.

 

Cheers.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Great White
spelling

[meach]

Great information, thanks. The photos were great, I've never been much of a tranny guy, even in the old days. Let alone with drive shaft bikes which both of mine are now.

 

So I think I have good news but won't know for sure until later. I may still have issues with middle gear/ujoint but did some slow riding around neighborhood today to do some trouble shooting, drive train feels fine with exception of rhythmic vibration, slight knocking coming thru grips, came back home and pulled both front calipers off to eliminate them, turns out left wheel bearing was shot and right was getting there. (these bearings have about 4K miles, were installed in new front rim that was installed by dealer along with some other work they did, worst job ever and I let them know it, I had to go back and fix everything they screwed up,) I had removed calipers individually earlier and checked for any issues, but after removing both at the same time and spinning wheel did I detect vibration of bad bearing. Will order new bearings and seals, instal and then see how it runs. Will leave rear end alone for now. Only want to do one thing at a time. Will still pull drive shaft, etc. later to grease everything and check everything.

 

Thanks to all for ideas and suggestions.

 

EDIT: Ordered new bearings and seals from ronayers, will get those in when they come and see how she does.

Edited October 16, 2015 by meach

[meach]

So I got new front wheel bearings (replaced both sides & seals) installed and took bike out for a spin, noise in inner bearing area not there. Everything feels fine, runs smooth. Coasted down the road with motor off and in gear to listenenfor any noise, sounded like normal gear noise, not like a gear missing a tooth or anything. Ujoint seems tight when moving forward and backward (how we used to check em on cars in the old days) Don't see how there could be any connection between bad front wheel bearing and knocking noise around middle gear area. At some point still going to pull axle out to inspect & lube. Will ride locally over the winter and see if it ever returns in the mean time.

[meach]

One last post in this thread just in case someone runs across it down the road. Have run several errands around town on the bike with NO noise what so ever. Went ahead and pulled drive shaft, etc. and everything seemed to be in good order. Shaft spline needs some grease but looks fine. Everything in final drive is fine, still had good grease from last time I greased it. (I use molly paste). So as to clanking noised appearing to be coming from the middle gear area, It must have been the collar in front hub coming loose when bearing failed and bouncing around in hub and sound was transmitted back somehow. Wife on back thought sound was under seat as well. It wasn't until collar got stuck in one position out of alignment that it started rubbing front hub that I could feel grinding thru handle bar grips each rotation of wheel. Doing some routine stuff while everything apart but should be good to go when I get it all back together.

[ChrisFrench]

Hello,

I had this noise problem and it had claws on the rear wheel.

Claws to clean and lubricate.

[meach]

Hello,

I had this noise problem and it had claws on the rear wheel.

Claws to clean and lubricate.

Going to replace my rear wheel, (found a dent in current wheel while inspecting everything) Going to lubricate everything when I switch out wheels, replacement wheel is from an 09 with similar miles as my bike. I lubricated this on current wheel about a year and a half ago. All noises are currently gone, everything seems to be running smoothly now. Also going to change out my rear shock while I have it all apart.