I think I am finished...finally

[YamaDuck]

your top hole on your multimeter is to check amperage thru a line. NOT to exceed 10 amps it what it looks like. So if you were to check how much amp it takes to run say a tail light. You Connect the meter inline and it tells how much to run whatever circuit you are connected in.

Like Jeff said, dont worry about it now. but I would for simplicity disconnect the new headlight and put the OEM type in. Just makes things easier to troubleshoot.

Yep I am doing thjat now. I had to break one of the clips on the fairing and grind down the head of a bolt because HF's cheap allen wrenches head broke off in the screw hole. Could not get it out with a magnet, could not drill it out. Lifetime warranty! Like I am going to trust them again. Anyway should have the original headlight back in within the hour.

[YamaDuck]

Alright I found something. (besides my mistakes) I found out that I ran the test on the other bike the MM that is in the next stall. This one I checked the fuses under the left side cover and they looked good except a little dusty. When I took the plastic cover off the left side where the solenoid thing is someone had put a 25 amp fuse there. I am pretty sure it is suppose to be 30 amps. I also took the connector apart and everything looks nice and clean. Two copper colored wires on one side and two silver colored wires on the other side. There are two heavy wires that are bolted into a small board that both have rubber boots on them. One is marked "M" and has a heavy black wire going to it. That wire connector looks good. The other connector is marked "B" and has a heavy Red wire attached to it. This connector is covered about 1/3 of it with a with chalky looking powder.

 

Now I know I need to replace the 25 amp fuse with a 30 amp fuse. I need to clean the "B" connector. Do I need to disconnect the battery? I don't know how much voltage or amps are going through it. I don't want to get knocked on my ......

[YamaDuck]

Ok I didn't get knocked on my ..... but I did disconnect the battery just in case. I replaced the 25 amp fuse with a 30 amp fuse. I cleaned the "B" connector. Still showing 235 and when revved the numbers still go down. I'm beat I am through for today. I have one more day to work on it before I have to keep my 4 month old granddaughter for two days. Thanks for the help today fellers I will start fresh in the morning.

[YamaDuck]

Alright I disconnected everything that did not come from the factory. I have one main factory power lead to the positive and one to the negative. Voltage still dropping at RPM's rise. I have all my parts to the MM. Once I get it together and know it is running I will take this one to the shop and I don't care how long they keep it.

[YamaDuck]

Since I thought I had the problem fixed until Flyinfool burst my bubble and told me I did not have it fixed (thanks Flyinfool) I have taken just about cover off that bike I can find. I have taken every connector I can find that is part of the charging system and cleaned it with CRC electrical cleaner. I have taken the fuses out and strayed CRC on every wire in the main fuse panel. I have taken the starter solenoid out and sprayed the the connector I have taken the fuse out of the solenoid and sprayed it with CRC. I have taken the thick black and red wires off the solenoid and sanded it with 600 grit sandpaper and sprayed it again with CRC. I took the positive cable off the battery and sanded it with 600 grit sandpaper both top and bottom along with sanding the top of the battery post. I sprayed the RR connector with CRC. I took the 3 white wire connector apart that is under the coolant tank and sprayed it with CRC. There was a connector under there that had 3 smaller wires I took it apart and sprayed it with CRC. There was a white 2 wire connecter with a green wire and a black wire (I think it was black) ti took it apart and sprayed it with CRC. There was a black connector there also with a smaller white and black wire. I took it apart and sprayed it with CRC.

 

WHAT AM I MISSING!!! Does the bad connection have to be on the charging circuit? Could it be in the ignition? I have put two relays on the bike, one for the driving lights and one for the air horn neither of which are connected right now and the voltage still drops when the bike is revved. Could a bad connection on any the the LED lights that I have running whenever the bike is cranked cause this problem? I'm at my wits end here. It has a new RR and I have checked 001 across all three white wires.

 

I appreciate all the support you guys have given me and Flyinfool has really been supportive but I'm going to have to put it in the shop if we can not think of something else to try and I really don't want to put it in the shop.

 

Signed, at wits end!

P.S. I went back and reread Flyinfools instruction. I did miss something, the starter connection. I can not find the starter. Please tell me it is not under a cover somewhere. In the service manual it only shows a small area around the stater and I thought I new where it was but I don't see it. Also O have only found one ground, it is the one on the right side of the engine by the horn. Could someone tell me where to look for the other ground. I am assuming there are two grounds.

Thanks

Harry

Edited June 21, 2014 by YamaDuck

[Flyinfool]

Man I feel your frustration. Been there done that last summer.

 

The starter is on the front of the engine about 8 inches up from the bottom.

 

I can not help with where the chassis ground ( or many other electrical parts) is on your bike, I have a 1st gen.

The first gen and 2nd gens have the same charging system so all of the tests apply to both models.

 

That connector you mentioned with 3 white wires, is that the one that goes to the RR?

If it is, did you run all of the stator AC voltage tests from that connector?

[YamaDuck]

Man I feel your frustration. Been there done that last summer.

 

The starter is on the front of the engine about 8 inches up from the bottom.

 

I can not help with where the chassis ground ( or many other electrical parts) is on your bike, I have a 1st gen.

The first gen and 2nd gens have the same charging system so all of the tests apply to both models.

 

That connector you mentioned with 3 white wires, is that the one that goes to the RR?

If it is, did you run all of the stator AC voltage tests from that connector?

 

Thanks no wonder I could not find the starter I was looking at the back of the engine, THANKS:thumbsup2:.

The 3 white wire connector comes up from under the bike and when I trace the wires looks like it goes to the stator. The other end of the connector goes into the wiring harness that goes to the RR. Since the three white wires are larger than the normal wires I am assuming they are from the stator to the RR. I only ran the DC test. There is no black or red wire at the connector. I will watch the video on checking the AC voltage and see if my leads will reach from the RR to the connector and I will check the AC voltage at the connector.

 

THANKS

[YamaDuck]

I think I may have finally found the problem. Flyinfool and anyone else for that matter please let me know what you think. I watched a video on how to test the stator a half a dozen times to make sure I understood (I am a little slow) I then proceeded to test the stator at the RR connection again. I was doing a few things wrong before. So here is what I did;

 

1) I tested all 3 white wires on the ohms setting and they all came back registering 001. I then checked a ground source and I tested it to make sure it was a ground source and I checked each of the 3 white wires again and again they all came back 001.

 

Then;

2) I tested the AC voltage by sticking the black probe into the black connection with the RR connected and the engine running. I then took the red probe and checked all 3 white wires and here are the numbers;

a) white wire #1 tested 13.5 volts AC at idle and when revved went down to 13.1 volts AC

b) white wire #2 tested 13.1 volts AC at idle and when revved went up to 13.2 volts AC

c) white wire #3 tested 6.5 volts AC at idle and when revved went down to 2.1 volts AC but would jump around back up to 6.5 volts and everything in between.

 

From everything everyone is telling me and from what I see on the videos it seems to me the stator is shorting out or something. If anyone else knows if this is the problem or suspects something else may be the problem please let me know.

 

If it is the stator I then have to make a decision on whether I want to torture myself again and try to do the job myself or whether I want to put it into the shop and pay someone else to fix it.

[bongobobny]

Your stator is bad! All 3 wires should be the same.

 

Not too hard a job but use a JIS impact driver on the screws...

[Flyinfool]

The AC voltage test should be done withe the 3 white wires unplugged from the RR. Be careful here because the voltage should be high enough to really get your attention.

 

When you did the ground test, were the 3 white wires unplugged from the RR. They should be or you can get a false reading to ground thru the RR. If you are seeing 001 from any of the white wires to ground with the connector unplugged, than you have a bad stator. the meter should show the same thing as when the leads are not connected to anything at all.

 

Changing out the stator is not a difficult job to do. The only "hard" part is getting the 3 screws loose that hold the stator in place. Those 3 screws have blue loctite on them, You will need an impact driver with a #2 JIS bit to get them out with no damage.

[YamaDuck]

Your stator is bad! All 3 wires should be the same.

 

Not too hard a job but use a JIS impact driver on the screws...

 

I need to find someone around here that sells JIS tools bits. I have an impact driver though.

[YamaDuck]

The AC voltage test should be done withe the 3 white wires unplugged from the RR. Be careful here because the voltage should be high enough to really get your attention.

 

When you did the ground test, were the 3 white wires unplugged from the RR. They should be or you can get a false reading to ground thru the RR. If you are seeing 001 from any of the white wires to ground with the connector unplugged, than you have a bad stator. the meter should show the same thing as when the leads are not connected to anything at all.

 

Changing out the stator is not a difficult job to do. The only "hard" part is getting the 3 screws loose that hold the stator in place. Those 3 screws have blue loctite on them, You will need an impact driver with a #2 JIS bit to get them out with no damage.

 

Yes the 3 white wire ground test were done with the RR unplugged. When I tried to do the AC test with the RR unplugged I did not get any reading. I had the black lead in the black wire and I had the red lead in each of the white wires one at a time. With the engine running I got nothing but with the RR plugged in I got the results above.

[Flyinfool]

With the 3 white connector unplugged from the RR, label the 3 wires 1, 2, 3.

Set the meter for an AC volt scale of 200 or higher. Connect the meter from 1 to 2, then 2 to 3, then 1 to 3. You should see around 15-20 volts AC at idle and can see over 100 volts AC at speed. The actual voltage is not that critical, what is important is that all three readings are close to the same.

 

I do not do the AC test by going to the black wire because a bad rectifier diode in the RR can influence the test result. In your case this is not likely since you did put in a new RR. But there is no guaranty that the new RR is 100% good either. Testing with the RR Disconnected from the stator guaranties that you are only testing the stator with no other influence. Testing thru the RR will tell you that you have A problem but not what the problem is.

[YamaDuck]

With the 3 white connector unplugged from the RR, label the 3 wires 1, 2, 3.

Set the meter for an AC volt scale of 200 or higher. Connect the meter from 1 to 2, then 2 to 3, then 1 to 3. You should see around 15-20 volts AC at idle and can see over 100 volts AC at speed. The actual voltage is not that critical, what is important is that all three readings are close to the same.

 

I do not do the AC test by going to the black wire because a bad rectifier diode in the RR can influence the test result. In your case this is not likely since you did put in a new RR. But there is no guaranty that the new RR is 100% good either. Testing with the RR Disconnected from the stator guaranties that you are only testing the stator with no other influence. Testing thru the RR will tell you that you have A problem but not what the problem is.

 

Alright a friend just stopped by with a good voltmeter. Checking the AC voltage with the RR off and the bike running and checking the 3 white wires as directed by Flyinfool we get about 25 volts at idle across all three white wires 1-2, 2-3, and 1-3. Revved it depends on how high you rev it but at the point we stopped it was about 55 volts. We did the DC continuity test between all 3 white wires and again they checked out. My voltmeter was not sensitive enough to spit out and accurate reading. We then did a DC test to ground and again the readings came back all the same.

 

So now I'm back to square one and checking the connections.