Carb help also needed here

[Sexagenarian]

Well I finally was able to start the RSTD up yesterday and am having a similar problem as Summerbreeze (also see his thread requesting carb help). Maybe someone out there can help us both.

Quick review: Prior to my carb separation and cleaning, the only way to keep the motor running was at full throttle and it was dumping a lot of gas via the overflow tubes as well. After separation and cleaning, it is still running way too rich (?) as I have to give it just a little throttle to keep it from flooding out. My idle screw was then adjusted Clockwise (maladjusted may be a better word) to keep it from flooding out. When I try to set the rpm with the idle screw, anything less than 1200 rpm will flood it out. In order to get to 1200 rpm I had to turn the idle screw CW almost all the way in. When I try to lower the rpm to 1000 with the idle screw, it jumps from 1200 to 900 with hardly any CCW movement at all.

What was done: With the carbs separated, the floats were individually checked for buoyancy by dumping them into a container of gasoline and submerging them to make sure their was not air infiltrating the floats and also that they would then indeed 'float'. I did notice that the floats were sitting anywhere from 7 to 9 mm when checked by this method: float adjustment used

I then set them all to 8mm using that method.

I then proceeded to remove all components from the carbs as I did not want to expose any rubber components to the carb cleaning spray.

The needle valves themselves were inspected to make sure the plunger was nice and springy and did not stick.

Before removing the main jet from the main jet holder, it was noted that all four were bottomed out. I neglected to check the main jet holder position but bottomed them out also upon reassembly after all the cleaning. The pilot jet on all 4 carbs was in varying degrees of having their pinholes clogged. They were noted to all be bottomed out prior to my removing them also. The needle valve seats were also cleaned and inspected.

The needle jet was not removed but was sprayed thoroughly with the carb cleaner.

All four diaphrams were inspected and one was found to have pinholes. It was replaced with new rubber using this method: siruusconinc.com

The jet needles and their assembly were also cleaned of a varnishy type buildup.

Although I am somewhat proud of the fact I tackled this task, my ego has suffered severely as I have failed monumentally somewhere along the line. Hopefully one of you seasoned pro's out there can get me on the right course again. As always, thank you for your inputs, no matter how small or large you deem them to be. Ride safe!!

[joboo]

The needle valves are an assembly. If you have pulled it to clean it, the screen is on the bottom, then the orings on the assembly should be changed. If you have never changed the needle valve assemblies on your 97 you should do so, they are not expensive and will solve a lot of problems. Changing just the needle valves, with leaking assembly rings will cause a whole lot of tail chasing.

[RedRider]

There are individual mixture screws on each carburetor. These should be set about 2.5 turns from bottomed out. You then need to make sure the carbs have been sync'd. This is especially important if you separated the carbs.

 

Good luck and keep us up to date on progress.

 

RR

[ToyOdie]

I'm by no means a "pro" but I have tackled this one twice. I agree with the needle and seat set. If you removed them for cleaning, you need to replace the o-ring on each one. This will solve the over flow issue. Even if the float is closing the fuel can still flow past on the outside of the seat. The o-ring is not a part listed in the carb breakdown so you'll have to check with your local dealer to match them up. I was able to get 4 of them for less than five dollars. Also check to see if the needle tip is torn. I had one that looked good unil I bent it over slightly then it showed the damage.

I found that using the "Book" method of setting the float levels on both my 96 and 97 works if you work with 2 at a time. Separate the carbs to left and right bank. Using a gravity feed fuel tank attach to the crossover or the fuel inlet depending on which side your working on. I set the carbs on a couple of 2x4 so I could get access to the float drain screws. I used some over sized fish tank air hose to create the "Float Level Guage". I took the hose and put it over the drain nipple for the carb I wanted to set. Then I let the fuel start flowing to the carbs. With the carbs level I opened the drain and held the line up and checked the fuel level by measuring using the index line on the outside of the float cover. If the carb needed adjustment I bent the float tab up or down to achieve the proper level. I repeated the process for the other 3 carbs.

If your not stopping fuel flow into the carbs, your mixture screws can be totally closed and you can still be rich. Your lucky that it will even run at all. Once you have the floats and needles fixed. Close all 4 mixture screws and open them up 2 and a half turns each. This is a good starting point. Using a color-tune will help you get the final adjustment faster. Before I had one, I used my ear and adjusted the mixtures to eliminate the popping in the pipes first. Then I adjusted based on the color of the plugs after a full tank of gas. A "brown" color indicates a rich condition and a "white" color indicates lean. You should look for light grey with no specks. Start with new plugs and clean them after each check. Make adjustments slowly. It's safer to run slightly rich than lean. This process took several runs of about 20 miles each to get the plugs where I liked them. I still do plug checks on a regular basis just to verify how the engine is running.

[Sexagenarian]

The needle valves are an assembly. If you have pulled it to clean it, the screen is on the bottom, then the orings on the assembly should be changed. If you have never changed the needle valve assemblies on your 97 you should do so, they are not expensive and will solve a lot of problems. Changing just the needle valves, with leaking assembly rings will cause a whole lot of tail chasing.

I took your advice and ordered the new needle valves and seat assemblies for each carb. Wow, what a difference! Wow, what a price! The good news is that the old seat assemblies easily slipped in and out of their housings, the new assemblies actually had to be seated with a slight push and then "popped" into place. They then were not able to be easily slid out anymore. I already feel better about no more leaking o-rings on this assembly. Also placed the new needles onto the floats and placed them back together. Raining today and was hoping to synch the carbs but I guess that will have to wait until tomorrow to bring the RSTD out of the garage.

Speaking of synching the carbs.. this is a great thread on synching carbs

but it does not show the correct locations of the synching screws for a 1997 Royal Star Tour Deluxe. Does anyone have the correct procedure with those screws?? thanks again for everyone's help... --Wayne

[Squidley]

Did you check your float levels to make sure they were right while you had them apart? If the floats are set high it can lead to the bike running rich.

[ToyOdie]

Here is a link to the proper proceedure for the 96/97 carb sync. I had the same problem the first time I tried to sync mine.

 

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=49436&d=1282743896

[Sexagenarian]

Did you check your float levels to make sure they were right while you had them apart? If the floats are set high it can lead to the bike running rich.

I checked them per this posting: float adjustments ....They were all around 8mm-9mm when measured as that method suggests so I left them alone... The method mentioned in the clymer is way too confusing for my current experience level...Unless someone can explain it better than the manual did?

 

Here is a link to the proper proceedure for the 96/97 carb sync. I had the same problem the first time I tried to sync mine.

 

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=49436&d=1282743896

Interestingly, when I first looked at that page in the Clymer, the view seems backwards to me, which is why I asked..

I cannot access the carb1 and carb2 synch screw as shown in Figure 46 of that reference. It shows the left side of the bike but I need to be on the right side of the bike to access the synch screw.. Figure 47 appears to also show the left side of the bike... Which would mean the synch screw towards the rear of the bike (A) should synch carb 4 to carb 3. The screw towards the front of the bike (B) should then synch the left pair (two) to the right pair (four)... Correct?

[joboo]

Good followup Toy, I like the spark plug method. The only thing I forgot was that for some of these new guys, you have to shop around for the best prices, sorry Sexigennuguy. On my post I said they were not very expensive and on yours it was "wow, what a price" Some sites even sell above list and others up the prices on some of the more common items, shame, shame but there are some very good sites for parts, I think I paid around $23.50 a set for those assemblies that were totally complete, needles and all. Now after the pilots are set and the carbs are synced there should be no popping or leaking only purring. The only other advice I have, is that I pay particular attention to the reassembly of the whole bank, it can make or break a perfect setup. There is a lot of play that can be adjusted on reassembly because of the linkages and cables.(especially the choke) When all is reassembled there should be no tension or no slack on any of the cables. When you pull the choke, check the plunger bodies and make sure that each is in the identical position, move the throttle arm and make sure the throttle valves all begin to move at the same time as well as bottom out at the same time. ( this is provided you restart at zero, if you do not, the gaps or bottom position may all be different) Best of luck, and enjoy your ride! PS I was writing as you were posting but here is a good article and pictures by the fearless leader that may help. There are a couple more articles with some good pics of a 96/97 setup that I have not found yet but will post them when I do. It is a common belief that you sync one side to the other but not true, one carb is set and the others are synced to IT. 3 sync screws and they interact : http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=258&highlight=carb+sync+procedure

Edited September 29, 2013 by joboo
new post

[Sexagenarian]

There are individual mixture screws on each carburetor. These should be set about 2.5 turns from bottomed out. You then need to make sure the carbs have been sync'd. This is especially important if you separated the carbs.

 

Good luck and keep us up to date on progress.

 

RR

can you identify the individual mixture screw in the image below?

[joboo]

Here are some additional threads and pics that may help, the mixture screws are under a cap directly under the slide covers, even though Skydocs are those fancy copper colored ones, the pics clearly show the location of sync screws versus mixture screws. Pay close attention to these guys warnings in these threads about those mixture screws. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=48000&highlight=mixture+screw+pics

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=35110&highlight=mixture+screw+pics

[Sexagenarian]

Man, have I been waiting a while to say that.... The new needle assemblies did their magic as when I fired it up this time there was no gas flowing anywhere but where it was supposed to... woooo hooooo... I was also able to get the carbs synched utilizing my new Morgan carbtool... Oh man, Oh man, I love the sound of this engine as it purrs away... Have a lot of little things to tidy up on this beauty before leaving the driveway with it, but I just had to give a shout out to all of you that have helped me on this journey... Although I was too intimidated to do anything with the mixture screws, my confidence level has risen exponentially since beginning this ordeal... Maybe that will be a winter project in this cold land of Minnesota... thanks again to all of you for your great suggestions, responses, and most importantly, your patience with my entry level questions...As I have said before, this forum rocks!!!! thank you!!!

[ToyOdie]

This picture should make it easier to figure out. The top picture is from the left side of the bike. You need to gain access from the right side. The picture makes it confusing. Make sure you get your screwdriver on the right screw when adjusting 1 & 2. The other screw you'll see is the float cover. (Don't ask me how I know)