van avery Posted July 5, 2013 Share #26 Posted July 5, 2013 Put the bike on center stand in neutral then jump directly to the positive terminal on the starter. If she turns over its then time to check the selinoid. If she doesn't you might jump the negitive side bach to the battery to see if its the ground or maybe just a bad starter. If its the starter buy one on Ebay for a second gen and you will be much happier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casiper Posted July 5, 2013 Author Share #27 Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) OK. I jumped the starter using the positive side and it turned. I got it running for about a minute after that and then I turned off, then I tried starting normally, but it would not. When I dis-engaged the power kill switch the solenoid clicked and nothing else. The solenoid is less than a month new, I got it replaced at the same time I got the Ignitech unit. Also connected a volt meter from walmart that measures the voltage and has an alternator light in case of malfunction. When the bike was running I had 13.7v at 1000 rpm and 13.4 at 3000 rpm what should I do next? Edited July 5, 2013 by casiper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankd Posted July 6, 2013 Share #28 Posted July 6, 2013 Put the black meter lead on the battery negative terminal and the red lead on the battery positive terminal. Turn the key on, and try to start it. When you push the start button, read the battery voltage----it should be above 10 volts, but without the starter engaging it really should be above 11 V. If it goes below 10 V., your battery is bad (assuming that it's fully charged). Your charging voltage isn't quite right either. 13.7 volts at 1000 RPM says your charging system is probably OK, but if it goes down to 13.4 @ 3000 RPM, something is wrong, and it's probably your rectifier/regulator.....unless you meant to say 14.3 volts????? However, this isn't your starting problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casiper Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share #29 Posted July 6, 2013 ok, I'm getting 12.37 after hitting the button. The voltage readings I stated before are correct. They go higher at 1000 rpm and lower at 3000 rpm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankd Posted July 6, 2013 Share #30 Posted July 6, 2013 OK, measure the voltage on the R/W (red with white stripe) small wire on the solenoid. With key ON and bike in neutral, you should read 12V. Then push START button and voltage should stay @ 12V. If so, measure voltage on the L/W (Blue with white stripe)---should also measure 12V, and then push START button. Voltage on L/W should go to zero. Let me know what you find and we can go from here. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casiper Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share #31 Posted July 6, 2013 (edited) Ok. At solenoid small wires: red/white strip =12v Start button pressed: 12v Blue/white stripe=12v Start button pressed=0.61v Sorry about my ignorance on this next question: In front of the starter there is a thick cable connected to a bolt, I assume its the positive side, since I was able to connect a cable from the positive battery terminal to it and the bike started. Tracing that thick black cable takes me to one of the top terminals on the solenoid where the "negative " cable goes to the battery negative post. To me it makes no sense. Shouldn't this thick black cable connect to the positive terminal on the solenoid, which I believe is the right side post if you look at it in front of you while still mounted? Edited July 6, 2013 by casiper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casiper Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share #32 Posted July 6, 2013 pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard765 Posted July 6, 2013 Share #33 Posted July 6, 2013 That wiring looks fine to me. From what you are saying you either have a bad solenoid or a bad connection from the solenoid. I know you said it was new but it may be a faulty one.. Or you may have a dirty starter button and it isn't making the solenoid connect. If you are getting the clicking though I'd say the starter button is OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairiehammer Posted July 6, 2013 Share #34 Posted July 6, 2013 Ok. In front of the starter there is a thick cable connected to a bolt, I assume its the positive side, since I was able to connect a cable from the positive battery terminal to it and the bike started. Tracing that thick black cable takes me to one of the top terminals on the solenoid where the "negative " cable goes to the battery negative post. To me it makes no sense. Shouldn't this thick black cable connect to the positive terminal on the solenoid, which I believe is the right side post if you look at it in front of you while still mounted? The solenoid is just a heavy duty switch or if you prefer a relay. Both large posts on the solenoid are for positive energy. One should go from the solenoid to the positive post on the starter and the other goes to the positive post of the battery. There is no negative post on the starter. Ground for the starter is through the starter mounting bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casiper Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share #35 Posted July 6, 2013 Thank you for explaining how the solenoid works!!! I measured the voltage to the small wires at the connector that plugs to the solenoid and I got 10.6 while pushing the start button, I also notice a very fainted click coming from the solenoid. The battery is showing 12.4 since I've been testing for a while. What else I can test or conclude at this point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairiehammer Posted July 6, 2013 Share #36 Posted July 6, 2013 Thank you for explaining how the solenoid works!!! I measured the voltage to the small wires at the connector that plugs to the solenoid and I got 10.6 while pushing the start button, I also notice a very fainted click coming from the solenoid. The battery is showing 12.4 since I've been testing for a while. What else I can test or conclude at this point? The small wires are the "signal" for the solenoid, again think relay. Ten volts is probably not enough to generate the electromagnetic force required to make the solenoid plunger move smartly to make the contacts. You can jumper the two big posts on the solenoid so as to send full battery current to the starter. You are simply bypassing the solenoid as a switch. Be aware that there will be some major arcing and perhaps damage done to the solenoid posts and their threads when you do this. We used to bypass the Ford starter solenoids back in the day by laying the handle of a pair of pliers across both big posts. Sometimes it would weld the handle to the posts. Speaking of the Ford starter relay/solenoid: if the Yamaha solenoid is bad, a starter solenoid for a circa 1966 Ford can be used. But for now I suspect the battery voltage is too low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casiper Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share #37 Posted July 6, 2013 ok, so how much voltage should I be getting to the solenoid when I press the start button if 10.6 is low? The battery still showing 12.4v This am I took the battery from over a day of charging showing 12.9v and I did not get cranking after pushing the start button. I'm charging the battery now. I'm ordering another solenoid today just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairiehammer Posted July 6, 2013 Share #38 Posted July 6, 2013 ok, so how much voltage should I be getting to the solenoid when I press the start button if 10.6 is low? As Frank (above) said, you should have 12+ volts to the solenoid (both small wire and big post). Did you try to "jumper" the two big posts? The battery should crank over even if the key is OFF if you jumper the big posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casiper Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share #39 Posted July 6, 2013 yes, I jumped the two post at the solenoid and the starter cranked. I wonder why I'm getting 12.4v at the battery, but only 10.6 at the connector for the solenoid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairiehammer Posted July 6, 2013 Share #40 Posted July 6, 2013 yes, I jumped the two post at the solenoid and the starter cranked. I wonder why I'm getting 12.4v at the battery, but only 10.6 at the connector for the solenoid... Check your fuse block. Check for voltage on BOTH sides of EACH fuse holder. Another reason for low voltage at the solenoid small wire: if you are checking for voltage with the start button depressed AND the connector is connected to the solenoid, the reading is low because the (perhaps) bad solenoid is sucking the juice down while trying to activate the solenoid. Try checking the voltage at the small wire when the start button is depressed but with the connector disconnected from the solenoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casiper Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share #41 Posted July 6, 2013 I tried getting voltage at the fuse box with a test lead on each side of the fuse while the key was on the on position and I didn't get nothing on the first two up top, the last two showed 0.04 I believe. Unless I'm doing it wrong. very good observation regarding the small wires. I did get 12v at the connector if unplugged, but only 10.6 connected to the solenoid. Is the solenoid bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankd Posted July 6, 2013 Share #42 Posted July 6, 2013 Yes, either your solenoid is bad, OR you have a loose connection at one of the larger solenoid terminals. You should be able to touch the solenoid and feel it pick up (or close if you'd rather) when you push the start button. If you don't feel it click when you push the starter button, you could disconnect the 2 small wires and measure the solenoid coil resistance. Put your meter on OHMS and measure the solenoid end of the 2 small wires...I'd suspect you'd get about 1 or 2 ohms, maybe as much as 4 ohms. Also make sure the nuts that connect the 2 big leads are tight, but disconnect your batteries negative lead before you tighten them. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casiper Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share #43 Posted July 6, 2013 I got all 4 nuts tight. Also, I got 05.4 Oms at the solenoid connector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huggy Posted July 7, 2013 Share #44 Posted July 7, 2013 Do you have car battery around? I'd pick up a cheap marine battery and a couple cables and hook that up before you kill your bike battery by constantly charging it! They're not built to take that kind of abuse. I keep a 600 amp marine battery around for doing just what you are doing. Buy, beg, borrow or steal one and see if you still have the problem. Pull the battery out of you car if you have to. At least this way you will know if its your battery or not!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMike Posted July 7, 2013 Share #45 Posted July 7, 2013 Yes a shorted cell in a battery can give you same type nightmares. totally disconnect it and connect another battery and see what you have. Load test yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankd Posted July 7, 2013 Share #46 Posted July 7, 2013 5.4 ohms across the solenoid coil is probably OK. If you have 10-12 volts across the coil when you push the start button, and the solenoid still doesn't energize the starter, you have a bad solenoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casiper Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share #47 Posted July 7, 2013 So, to summarize what's been done so far: I've connected two different batteries to it, both fully charged and load tested and still no crank. Disconnected the solenoid plug and voltage at the male connector shows same voltage as the battery it self while pushing the start button. Re-connected solenoid connector and shows 10.4v while pushing the start button. I disconnected the wire going to the starter at the solenoid post and the same thing, 10.4v So every time the solenoid is connected to the harness I'm loosing voltage. I have a new solenoid coming within a few days and we'll go from there. If the bike starts after replacing the solenoid, then it will be time to figure out if there something odd with the charging system that might of mess up the solenoid, since when I got it to start via direct jump to the starter the voltage at 3000 rpm was lower than when I got it idle at 1000 rpm. Thank you to all of you that took the time to help me out and educate me. I will report back once I get the new solenoid installed in a few days. Thank you again guys!!! Carlos Silva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casiper Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share #48 Posted July 10, 2013 All right, the new solenoid is in and the bike is running, but look a the voltage while keeping it a different rpm. What do you think? I'm trying to test the rectifier now, but any ideas please throw them up me. TY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snaggletooth Posted July 10, 2013 Share #49 Posted July 10, 2013 I got to say those are strange readings. The only one I liked was the 13.7 just below 2,000 RPM. That's not too bad. But dropping as revs increase and then 14+ below idle....... not right at all. I seen some crazy stuff with R/R failure but not like that. I'm still going to say the R/R is a problem. I'm no expert on the subject just my . I'm looking forward to the right answer myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casiper Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share #50 Posted July 10, 2013 Stator resistance, all the same values. My instructions tells me that I should have 0.35-0.48 ohms. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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