jlh3rd Posted April 17, 2009 Share #1 Posted April 17, 2009 07 venture, stock battery......battery failed 3 load tests; mine, Battery Plus, and the dealer......shows 12+ volts, drops to 6V under test......dealer has already been given the go ahead to replace it free....but he must try to " bring it back up " first ( 24 hr charge)..... here's my questions.....he says that my battery tender, which is a Battery Tender jr., will not properly charge this type battery...nor will a regular charger, and that they will damage this battery......that i need to get the charger that yamaha has...........i might buy the story about a regular charger, but not about my battery tender not working on an agm as Battery Tender says it will....so......who's right? and...what should the minimum voltage reading be under a load test.....( just for my clarification) and...my regular charger does shut off when battery shows charged, so why shouldn't it work also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRider Posted April 17, 2009 Share #2 Posted April 17, 2009 Your dealership is feeding you a line of BS. The Battery Tender will work fine with AGM batteries. RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted April 17, 2009 Share #3 Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) 07 venture, stock battery......battery failed 3 load tests; mine, Battery Plus, and the dealer......shows 12+ volts, drops to 6V under test......dealer has already been given the go ahead to replace it free....but he must try to " bring it back up " first ( 24 hr charge)..... here's my questions.....he says that my battery tender, which is a Battery Tender jr., will not properly charge this type battery...nor will a regular charger, and that they will damage this battery......that i need to get the charger that yamaha has...........i might buy the story about a regular charger, but not about my battery tender not working on an agm as Battery Tender says it will....so......who's right? and...what should the minimum voltage reading be under a load test.....( just for my clarification) and...my regular charger does shut off when battery shows charged, so why shouldn't it work also Most battery tenders put out 1amp @ 12.9vdc. Enough to maintain a charge, but not enough to charge. AGM's are able to handle higher volts.. up to 15vdc, but at a lower amperage of 6amps. Toss in a lot of amps and the battery will start gasing. Not good for any suspended acid battery. Your battery was probably subjected to a high amp rate from your charger and you gased it. This causes the battery to read a charged voltage, but to loose the ability to transfer those IONS from the plates to the anodes. That's why it drops to 6 volts on a load.... I think that's what some guy told me.... Edited April 17, 2009 by Condor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jemorrisonjr Posted April 17, 2009 Share #4 Posted April 17, 2009 Very True, I've used a Battery Tender for years and have not had any problems.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlh3rd Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted April 17, 2009 condor i've never charged the battery with the standard charger...i was just curious about it......only the battery tender and my solar charger were used on it..... so, even my standard charger if set for 2 amp charge , would be ok to use..since it shuts off automatically... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted April 17, 2009 Share #6 Posted April 17, 2009 condor i've never charged the battery with the standard charger...i was just curious about it......only the battery tender and my solar charger were used on it..... so, even my standard charger if set for 2 amp charge , would be ok to use..since it shuts off automatically... Those solar chargers aren't as good as a 110vac tender. Check the output voltage of your regular charger. It should put out at least 13.7 vdc. If it does, that's what you need to use. You might also take a look at the output of your stator on the bike to make sure it's putting out enough to keep your battery fully charged. If you keep it on a tender between rides it will maintain the charge, but only if it's fully charged to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlh3rd Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted April 17, 2009 thanks the stator is the buckeye...which i didn't mentioned to the dealer.....my solar puts out 20v. @ 66 milliamps......so i figured that should be ok....and i ride occasionally during the winter....i don't think i killed the battery...i think it developed a defective cell..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tx2sturgis Posted April 17, 2009 Share #8 Posted April 17, 2009 IONS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tx2sturgis Posted April 17, 2009 Share #9 Posted April 17, 2009 AGM batteries are slightly less tolerant of being overcharged than a regular flooded battery. If the Battery Tender is working right, it should maintain a perfect charge on that battery. But throwing in a simple solar charger, could POSSIBLY be overcharging it, since its not regulated. Those are normally for using on standard automotive batteries. I know 60 milliamps does not sound like much, but given enough time, say, a few weeks, of charging, and that may be enough to damage the battery. Or, it could have just failed. Maybe the new hi-output stator fried it. Its possible. It sounds like your dealer is practicing some CYA economics. If he sells you HIS charger, he makes some money on the deal whether the battery or charger fail, or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted April 17, 2009 Share #10 Posted April 17, 2009 thanks the stator is the buckeye...which i didn't mentioned to the dealer.....my solar puts out 20v. @ 66 milliamps......so i figured that should be ok....and i ride occasionally during the winter....i don't think i killed the battery...i think it developed a defective cell..... 66ma is practically nothing at 20volts. Especially when it's a solar charger. Think about this. That's the max rating in direct sunlight at high noon on a cloudless day with the cells pointed directly at the sun. Any deviation of the angle and the charge rate starts to drop off. From about 4pm to 10am the next day you're probably loosing more amps thru atrition than that solar charger is putting out. I'd suggest you pick up a smart charger and rig a quick release plug on the bike to make it easy to connect the charger up, and go that route. Also you may still want to do a usage chart with all the added accessories that you've installed, and compare it to the amount of amps coming out of that Buckeye stator. You still may be depleating the battery with everything drawing power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted April 17, 2009 Share #11 Posted April 17, 2009 IONS? Yep!!!! Here ya go.... Hope this clears things up for you. electric battery, device that converts chemical energy into electrical energy, consisting of a group of electric cells that are connected to act as a source of direct current. The term is also now commonly used for a single cell, such as the alkaline dry cell used in flashlights and portable tape players, but strictly speaking batteries are made up of connected cells encased in a container and fitted with terminals to provide a source of direct electric current at a given voltage. A cell consists of two dissimilar substances, a positive electrode and a negative electrode, that conduct electricity, and a third substance, an electrolyte, that acts chemically on the electrodes. The two electrodes are connected by an external circuit (e.g., a piece of copper wire); the electrolyte functions as an ionic conductor for the transfer of the electrons between the electrodes. The voltage, or electromotive force, depends on the chemical properties of the substances used, but is not affected by the size of the electrodes or the amount of electrolyte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlh3rd Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share #12 Posted April 17, 2009 thanks and are you saying that the battery is reversing itself and losing amps through the solar charger at night.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condor Posted April 17, 2009 Share #13 Posted April 17, 2009 thanks and are you saying that the battery is reversing itself and losing amps through the solar charger at night.... Depends on the solar charger circuitry... I run a Siemens 75 watt solar on the boat, and it needs to be regulated and it does have an inline diode, so I'm not worried about it discharging the battery bank. Most of these mini 5 watt solars don't have a diode in the circuitry and really don't need to be regulated, so it can happen. However in a very small amount, but enough to offset any good it did during the charging period. I always did think they were a waste of money.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBoyinMS Posted April 17, 2009 Share #14 Posted April 17, 2009 BatteryMinder sells an AGM specific maintainer that is 1.0 amp. Their wet cell maintainer is 1.33 amp. According to them, the wet cell model is ok if you don't leave it on more than 2-3 months at a time. AGM/Optima style maintainer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rylord Posted April 17, 2009 Share #15 Posted April 17, 2009 I have the Batterytender dual 2-bank connected 24/7 to my RSMV Venture and my Honda Goldwing and it works perfectly. After sitting over the winter (about 4 months) both started right up on first try each. I highly recommend. http://batterytender.com/product_info.php?products_id=55&osCsid=b057aeec4351d4a49c04acce2a84921b http://www.zerobraincells.com/images/2-Bank.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autopilot Posted April 18, 2009 Share #16 Posted April 18, 2009 The battery's obviously toast. If it was OEM, you're pushing what---3 years on it. I don't know how many miles you put on your bike(s), but that could constitute a substantial load cycle; even if it isn't, batteries do crater from time to time on their own. However, The problem in using something other than a "battery-tender" style device is that they do not typically have float circuitry in them. Float circuits serve to scale back the charge rate to a minimal level or zero charge rate, when the battery is fully charged and prevent overcharging, which will definitely hurt the battery. It will then monitor voltage and apply a minimal charge to keep the battery fully charged, then shut back off and cycle in this manner. One should also be cautious about a "battery-tender" that isn't designed for use with the AGMs. Some (not all) tenders may have de-sulfonating circuits which in the simplest description..burp the battery in reverse polarity, to keep the plates uncovered and maintaining maximum surface exposure to the electrolyte. This type of circuit is ONLY suitable for a lead-acid type flooded plate battery. Works great for those and extends the life of batteries that don't see a lot of use, but are kept on float chargers, like in back-up generators,etc. If your tender has this capability, DO NOT use it on an AGM battery! I would expect that the solar charger, even with some minimal output, would still have the capability of an overcharge with an AGM battery, especially if there is no protective circuitry present. The Yamacharger has the float circuitry and I'm reasonably sure that if you can show that your battery tender goes to float charge when the battery is fully charged, the dealer should have no issue, particularly if the spec.s on yours and his are similar. I would expect him to try to sell you on the Yamaha unit though. Reminds my of a situation with A/C compressor replacement under warranty. The parts store (actually the mfr) didn't want to go for it unless a new dryer was installed at the same time. I can see it for A/C; not for a Battery. I yield back the balance of my text! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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